my3rdgen

All right, I bought a set of these rockers a year and a half ago for my 355 TransAm project. The motor, tranny, and rear end are in the car and running, not tuned yet but running. Finally.

I will start in the beginning and get to the question as quickly as possible. I am no guru by any means and screwed up a lot as this is my first complete engine, transmission and rear end build up, let alone car restoration. I think it would have been easier to squeeze blood from turnips.

OK, when I first fired up the motor, We got it running smoothly and cranked it up to 2500 rpm and were going to hold it there for cam break in for like 30 minutes. After around 5 minutes the temp gauge slowly made its way up to 260* then past "OH WOW". We shut it down. This was repeated like 3 more times, start it up run 3-5 minutes at 2500 rpm then shut it down. I dropped the oil (using straight 30W), and it was full of gas.

The over heating was caused by my new temp sensor from Napa being the wrong one. My suspicions were correct and the motor never was over heating, checked it with an RTD. That problem solved.

The gas in the oil was caused by my dumb ars setting the fuel level in the front and rear float bowls (700 DP Holley) way too high (middle to almost top of my clear sight plugs)and drowning the motor with gas. This problem also solved.

So, I went to finally do the cam break in, and fired up the motor and noticed that the #2 cyl was making a lot of lifter noise. I shut it down and reset all the rockers with the motor cold (1/2 turn from 0 lash on base of cam lobe). This worked for 5 -7 minutes but then the noise came back. Now during my high temp and gas in oil problems I let the motor idle (750 to 1000 rpm) for a total of maybe 5 minutes out of all that run time. I now have to adjust the rockers again. I am planning on doing them with the engine hot and running, and going 3/4 turn this time.

What's the verdict?

Am I setting the rockers wrong? (I set them with engine not running and cold)

Are the aluminum rockers just inherently noisy?

Or did my starting, stopping and idling of the motor during my supposed high temp problem cause and improper cam break-in that is flattening my cam and its too late and the cam is junk?

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

I always adjust mine when the motor is not running... sometimes cold sometimes warm... Doesn't seem to make a difference for me. Are they stock lifters?? How many miles on them??

my3rdgen

They are Sealed Power Speed Pro stock replacement upgrade hydraulic lifters that are not fast bleeds or anti-pump ups. The whole engine was rebuilt top to bottom with new parts other than the block, crank, head castings, and a set of used PM rods, all else is new.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

A few possibilities:

1) Screw-in or press-in rocker studs? If the latter, you may be slowly pulling them out.

2) What lifters? Some performance lifters a just noisy.

3) Proform roller rockers - "For use with stock lift and springs only". They really aren't performance parts.

my3rdgen

This could be the problem, I am using 7/16ths screw in studs, and dual valve springs that have a seat psi of 140#, 385# open and are good for .600 lift.

EDIT: The lifters are a stock Sealed Power upgrade.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Might be the rockers... five7kid may just have a point on those...

my3rdgen

I hope it is, I would rather change the rockers than the cam. I am thinking of using a set of CompCams Magnum Roller tip rockers 1.6 to 1 of course. But I will have to change over to the 3/8 studs.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Just go ahead and the the ProMag 1.6s... for the 7/16 studs.

my3rdgen

A friend of mine used these on his street engine and his are noisy too.

I could use the magnum roller tip rockers made for 7/16 stud but they are 323.26 from Jegs. Way too much for me to justify the 7/16 studs.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

I have the 1.6 ProMag 7/16 rockers, got them used for $200 and they do make noise, b/c they are non-self aligning, but I got those for a reason... But they aren't that loud. You are going to hear roller rockers... its gonna happen. I guess it depends on your definition of loud...

my3rdgen

The sound is a "Tick-Tick-Tick" that comes and goes.

Mine are non-self aligning due to the older engine they are on (1974). They sound like a lifter ticking only from under the valve cover, and around half of them are noisy so its very noticable. In fact a friend from work came by to check the car out and he was shocked at how loud they were. The sound comes and goes on each one too, so the sound is oscilating around under the valve cover, its worse on the passeger side.

If this is normal for roller rockers I will just deal with it till I scrape up some cash at income tax time and get a set of Pro Mags.

430T/A

Thats wayyy to much spring pressure for a stock lifter, thats what the noise is. I'll guarantee ya that. The noise is really your stock lifters hollering for help...

my3rdgen

I have never heard of that being a problem, I am not saying its not the problem so enlighten me, what is the issue with stock lifters vs. high performance? I understand how anti-pump-up and fast bleed lifters work, but why won't a factory type lifter handle the spring psi?

The lifters I have ar Speed Pro replacements, they are Heavy duty but not performance as in fast bleed or anti pump up.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

COMP R's are the COMP's high performance hydro roller lifter. COMP basically takes a stocker lifter, takes it apart and adds a higher pressure spring under the plunger to take higher seat pressures from the valve springs.

430T/A

pretty much what he said. Stoc kseat pressure, If I'm no mistaken is in the neighbor hood of 75 lbs seat pressure. and if your running factory castings, you have to drill out the pushrod holes in order to run 1.6 rockers, other wise the pushrods will come in contact with the heads.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

I know a couple of people running stock castings w/ 1.6 rockers with no issues. There is a POSSIBILITY of clearance problems, but more likely than not it will be ok AFAIK

my3rdgen

Its a flat tappet hydraulic cam. The guys at Federal Mogul stated that with the added seat psi, I am bottoming out the plunger into the lifter and that is the tick. They suggested what many others did and that is adjust the lifters 1/4 turn while running and warm.

Chris89GTA

iTrader: (2)

Lol... You can forget my Comp R post now. For some reason I was thinking of hydro-roller cams and lifters. Obviously they won't work for you.

Try the quarter turn. That may work. If not then I don't know.

racereno

A few thoughts.

I might have missed this but what heads are you using? If production heads, DITTO on chris and 430's suggestion it might be pushrod slot clearance.

The spring pressure is alot for your average hyd lifter but with the Comps...?

NEVER run-in a new hyd cam at one rpm, it's got to be varied.

Sometimes what seems like a loud tick to a stock hyd guy is music to a solid lifter guy.

Last option, given no lobes have been even slightly hosed by previous start-up attempts, go ahead and just run solid lifters on it. You're already half-way to knowing how to set lash on a solid!

my3rdgen

Heads have been totaly rebuilt with 7/16ths studs, guide plates, old guide holes in head were drilled out to 1/2 or 5/8ths inch can't remember, new steel guides, new stainless 2.02/1.60 valves, umbrella seals, hard seats were also installed on exhaust side, I think that covers it. I do not think I missed anything done to the heads.

Funny you should mention the solid lifter thing. I was joking to myself about the same thing at work today.

I will try the 1/4 turn thing and if that doesn't work I will try 1/8. Then call it quits and save up for a roller, by then I will have flattened the cam anyway lol!

CCmag had an article a year ago or so and did a comparo with several differen't engines and came up with .003 past 0 lash made the most power on a hydraulic lifter setup, but it was noisy.

EDIT: the heads are 882's

my3rdgen

I asked this question on another post, just wondering because you are not the first person I have heard say this.

"I have heard people suggest using solid lifters on a hydraulic grind (only in certain circumstances). How does this affect the cam (how does it behave compaired to if it had the hydraulic lifters)?

Also if I were to run an LT-4 Hotcam with solid roller lifters, would it be more radical or less? Has any one done this?

My car is only driven 500 to 1000 miles a year and I want to switch to a solid roller, but I don't want any more lift than the Hotcam has. I want to keep it around .500 to .540, and my usable rpm from 2000 to 6000.

I do not want to use hydraulic fifters period, no matter what cam I use. (I need to have somthing to do on the car when the wife and kids are driving me nuts, lol!)

I also noticed that solid lifter cams have a lot more duration @ .050 than hydraulic cams for the same rpm band. Why is this so different?

I have never messed around with solid lifter cams and have never really looked into them untill now, so if any of these questions are nonsense, I apologize now."

my3rdgen

After much searching I found the answer I needed about solid lifters on a hydraulic cam.

Its,

"Not unless you are an expert at setting lash and totaly understand what lash is and how it works in relation to ramp tmes."

Which I don't know now, and will learn, but not so that I can botch my motor.

I am going with a mild Howards solid grind.