My 3.1 hasn't been working for about a month now(cranks and turns over just won't fire) and i've been trying things on and off i've limited it down to no spark and my battery is good. Was getting no spark off the distributor cap.

Finally got a multimeter today and decied to check if there was a short from the battery. I check resistence from the negative cable to the intake manifold and it was 1-0 ohms, checked resistence from the positive cable to the intake manifold and it has the same resistence, 1 ohm. Now i'm almost certian this is a problem. But any help would be greatly appreciated.

Any other adive would be helpful if this alleged short isn't the problem. Like where on the 3.1v6 the coil is located, not in the distributor cap. Under the cap? i have new plug wires and plugs that i was going to put in.

 

I'm not familiar with the 3.1, but if you had a dead short from the positive battery terminal to ground, first the short itself would begin arcing like carzy, then your battery would begin to sound like it's boiling, and I don'k know what happens next, I quickly removed the battery terminal before I found out, lol. Your probably just reading through something like a light bulb to get that kind or resistance. I would check your ignition coil, see if you have power coming into it when your trying to start you car. If you have it coming in, but no spark on your distribitor, there's your problem.

 

after the bubbling sound (which actually is bubbling) your battery will either A) explode or B) ooze out battery acid btw

 

awesome, glad I got that terminal off, lol

 

do you have a alarm on your car? My car wouldn't start, I bought a new starter, still wouldn't. Checked all the wiring in the ignition system and it checked out ok. Found out it was my alarm, the ignition wire hooked up to it had broken off.

 

No alarm just the chip in my key. I read alot of the otehr posts and thought it would be my coil, but it's not in the distributor cap like the manual says. Is it below the magnet or somewhere else in the engine bay?

 

again, not familiar with the 3.1, but you should be able to follow the wire from the center of the dist, to find the coil

 

have the resistor in your key tested out, you are more than likely facing issues with your VATS system (the security system).

I'm sure that Vader will chime in here soon, he gives great explanations of the VATS system, but I think instead of waiting for poor 'ol Vader to answer everyone's VATS questions, use the function! Best of luck and remember to report back with results!

 

I'd say VATS too, but he said it cranks, just doesn't have spark. But I'm definately not a VATS expert :hail: Vader

 

Yeah i spent about two weeks reading all the "won't start" posts here and figured out it wasn't the VATS tested my key and it seems to be fine.

Alright i should be able to find the coil. I can test it after school today.

 

well tested my coil, it was bad. even tested my new coil to make sure i was testing it right. New coil tested as good. so spent awhile out in the florida sun getting my hand cut up unmounting the old coil and mounting the new one. which was not fun.

still won't start. sounds like it's closer to starting then last time. but that might just be my false hope.

Any advice? alternator? ICM? I still get no spark off the distributor.

also i haven't hade a error code since this started happening and i checked again after the failed start with the new coil and still no code

 

well went to get my battery charged and they said it was bad. Got a new battery in hopes of finally getting my car running with the new coil. Still won't start still has no spark.

any ideas would be great

 

how exactly are you checking for spark?

 

Have you checked the ignition module, the pick-up coil, what do your spark plugs look like, are they fuel soaked? did you check the wires running from the ignition coil to the distributor? And like Wilburwm asked, how are you checking for spark? Have you pulled the distributor cap to see if the rotor is spinning when you crank it?

 

i have a new set of sparkplugs and wires that i haven't put in yet because the spark plugs are impossible to get to on the passenger side. I just hook up a new wire to the cap with a new plug in it and crank it and see if there is spark.

I don't have anyone to help me most of the time. I'll try to see uf u can get some one to cracnk it while i see if the rotor is spinning. I do know that inbetween crankings i had taken the cap off and the rotor stays in the same place. Does the rotor always stop at the same place or does this mean my rotor isn't spinning.

The ignition module and pick up coil is the only thing i have left to check. i assume they are in the distributor under the magnet?

 

You are correct. the pickup coil, and module are under the cap.

Pull off your cap, stand where you can see the rotor, and crank the engine, see if the rotor turns. If it does, check for spark at the coil wire. If no spark there, probably a module. If you do get spark at the coil wire, suspect a bad cap. (been there, done that.......)

 

rotor spins and the cap is brand new. the little metal plate on the rotor that cunducts the elctricity looked black so i scraped it clean to nex metal as best i could.

Is there anyway to test my new coil by just hooking a spark plug up to it?

And anyone with a similar set up as mine who can tell me exactly where to find the ICM becase it looks alot different under my cap then the haynes manual shows and i really don't want to mess anything else up by taking something apart i won't be able to put back right.

 

found out where the ICM was thanks to a cryptic description in the haynes manual. took it off and i was testing the resistence .

there is a connection of varrying low ohms to and from all the connocters on the ICM. i don't know if that means it's good or not I'm going to try and get a ride to the autoparts store to get it tested. The metal plate on the back has almost none of the grease i've readon on other posts thats so important so the ICM doesn't mess up when it gets hot.

 

ICM tested fine, spent two hours walking to the autoparts store and he said it passed the test. told me to bring in the alternator. This of course after just yesterday the same guy telling me it wasn't the alternator because the car would start up with a new battery and run long enough to make it down to the store

any ideas?

 

um, you had it running yesterday?

 

No hasn't run for about a month the guy at auto zone told me it should start even if the alternator was dead.

btw the alternator is hard to get off, all the bolts were stuck and i don't have socket to lossen the tension pully. I even broke the only small cheap ratchet i have.
I have limited tools cause i'm going to school and didn't bring any of my tools so i've been trying to make do.

 

ah, I see, I misunderstood what you wrote. Try checking for spark by removing the wire from the coil to the cap, at the cap, and hold it just over the stud it goes to on the cap. Ofcourse you'll need someone to turn the key for ya.

 

Alternator is good, the only thing left to replace is the pick up coil. Going to be a job to get to but a friend gave me the $12 he owed me for a new one and it's the last thing that could be causing no spark so i figure it's gotta work. I'm out of money for parts either way.

It's night time now so i can't hook my alternator and new coil up yet. I can't check for spark from the coil cause i never have a second pair of hands to help out. but i'm hoping i solved the problem.

If any one can think of anything else that might be causing it to have no spark please tell me just in case this doesn't work i'll have a back up plan. Baring some wire being loose or worn through i think i got everything:
-New battery
-alternator good
-new igntion coil(old one known to be bad)
-Ignition control module tested good
-New distributor cap(old one was crusty)
-Cleaned rotor
-new spark plugs and wires
-Soon to be new pick up coil.
-Rotor spins
-No error codes

 

bad distributor is the only thing i can think of that could be left. since the rotor moves that means that the distributor gear is still good.... i dont know if auto zone can check distributors too, but at this point i'm sure you're getting way healthy from walking for 2 hours to a parts store with a heavy part in hand, so I bet you could just slap a Z28 badge on your pants and make a vrooming sound and no one would blame you

I hope you get this figured out soon, I feel for yah

 

Thanks, going to put the distributer back on with my new pick up coil later after i get out of school. I'm hoping it'll work now and if so it should be running alot better with all the new parts.


I started skating to the parts store and my skates broke about a 1/4 mile from the store. bad luck i suppose.

 

well after finding out i had to take out my entire distributor to change the pick up coil i decied to check it first. I checked the Ohms on my new coil and the Ohms between the terminals on my old coil and they are exactly the same.

I take this to mean that the coil won't be the reason there is no spark correct? I'm supposed to be on the road back home in about 5 hours and really need to get my car working.

 

Ok got to test the igntion coil, stick a screw driver into the wire that goes from the cap to the coil. i of course stuck the screw driver into the end that would have cone on the cap. i tried it a few times and got zero spark from what i could see. I'd assume any spark would be visable or do you have to perfectly make a gap between the coil plug and the screw driver for a spark?

Either way i have no idea why the coil has no spark. so now i'm even more lost as to whats wrong with it and how to fix it

 

was going to change my pick up coil in case (despite testing good) it had gone bad. but i can hardly see the distributor lockdown nut let alone get a socket on it.

in the process of all this i discovered the top portion of my distributer, cap and ICM, can turn freely, about 200 some degrees.
This normal? doesn't seem to good but i also thought i had a shorted battery so who knows.

The only thing i can think of is my VATS because i've gotten conflicting information from other posts about if it would allow the engine to turn over with a messed up key.The security light doesn't stay on though after i turn the igntion on. and my tach doesn't move when i crank it and i read that was supposed to be the ICM and that tested fine. i should be able to try out a spare key later tonght. Then i guess i'll get a ride back home and live in shame the next few days till i can come back and try to fix this thing.

Feel free to throw out some ideas, i checked the ECM fuse in the engine bay, it was fine. i get current coming from my igntion coil on its way to the cap. No idea how much energy becuase all i have is a ghetto analog multimeter.

underneth my rotor in the hole where it goes over the distributer shaft there is alittle rusted metal plate. Does this plate conduct electricity or serve no purpose? If it conducts electricity would it's failure cause no spark at the ignition coil?

Also can ICM test good and really be bad? because thats what it sounds like it is. The pick up coil is jsut a wire and if it tests fine and unbroken it should be fine so really that only leaves the ICM. The magnet looks fine.

Thanks to everyone who's been trying to help me out

 

OK now i'm really confused.

I just noticed looking at my old ignition coil that i couldn't see any metal in the holes were the plugs go. so i had a shudder of fear that when i tested the coil it might have tested bad because the probe leads weren't sminy enough to get to the metal. And i was right. My old coil was perfectly fine.

So that means i've got no spark with jsut about everything in the igntion system checked or replaced, and whiule the distributer cap roates alot the shaft itself doesn't move back and forth at all.


looking more and more like VATS and so help me if it is i'm going to crap my pants after all the stuff i've tried

 

Just to satisfy my curiosity, could you just tell me, very specifically, how you tested for spark?

 

Also are you getting power to the coil and dizzy?

 

I think you might be able to disregard VATS for now. If the engine is cranking, the start enable relay is enrgized. If the V-6 ECMs are set up the same as others, a VATS fault would not allow you to crank the engine.

You may be lacking ingition voltage. As the Mass Mephisopholis suggests, meter the 12V power source to the distributor pimary terminal. More importantly, meter the power not only with the ignition switch in the RUN position, but while cranking as well. Have an assistant crank the engine while you test. If the ignition switch is failing, you may not be getting the necessary power for the ignition module and coil.

If you establish that you have a good supply of 12V to the B terminal on the distributor, you can measure the output to the ignition coil with a dwell meter or duty cycle meter. You could also do the same at the HEI output terminal for the ECM reference pulses. If you are getting ant tachometer action while cranking, or can read any dwell or duty cycle while cranking, the pickup coil and HEI module are likely doing their jobs. If notm you need to work backward from that point.

I'm also concerned about your remark that "the top portion of my distributer, cap and ICM, can turn freely, about 200 some degrees." Do you mean that the entire distributor, cap, body, and all will turn freely, or that the rotor will turn freely when the ccap is removed? That will be important to determine, in either case.

 

Mephistopholis.
And I'm his boss.

 

Haven't been able to really do anything with my car the past few days.

There is a metal plate that the cap and ICM screw into that is part of the distrubutor. This turns freely.

Questions:
Can i remote mount the pick up coil because i dont' know if i can get the distributer out.

Do ICM taht are bad sometime test good?

Vader said if i have Tach action when i crank it that the problem wouldn't be the pick up coil or ICM, but i have zero tach movement when i try to crank it.

as for the igntion and checking for it i didn't follow exactly what to do and i'm not sure i could do it myself. I don't even have a multi meter anymore

any hints on how to get the lock down bolt off so i can change the pick up coil?

 

If this piece turns freely, it is your problem. It is not supposed to turn freely unless you have the distributor hold down bolt loosened or the shear pin is broken in the distributor shaft.

 

I wouldn't care if i needed a new cam shaft as long as i can find out what to fix. I'm 99% sure the lockdown bolt is tight so to fix this i'd have to take the distributor off and do what exactly?

 

Either replace the shear pin or the distributor and hope the shear pin didn't fall down in the engine.

 

the shear pin would cause the no spark problem even though the rotor spins?

sorry just making sure before i get into something to complicated and it still not work afterwards.

 

when your testing for spark you said you hook up a new wire and put a plug on the end of it, i know this might sound stupid but your holding the plug to a metal piece of the car right? if you don't its not gonna ground and its not gonna spark.. I know its a dumb question but just thought I'd ask..