I have an 89 GTA, 5.7 TPI

The damn thing will not start. It origionally started as what seemed to be a hot start problem. I replaced a few things, new plugs, whatever, it seemed to fix the problem. THen a few months later, I put the car on the road. The first night, I did alot of driving, and alot of starting and shutting off. No problems. THe next day, I went to get gas, and when I tried to start the car again, nothing. It would crank, but wouldn't fire. FIguring it was just a hot start problem, I took it about 30 miles to a friends house. It stayed there for two days. I came back, sprayed fuel into the intake, it started, I took off. Three miles later, it died, would not restart. With fuel in the plenum, it would start, but die immediatly. I had it towed home. I replaced the fuel filter, and pump. It still wont start, can't figure out why. I AM getting spark, and fuel rail pressure is good, but the damn car wont start. I need any nd all options, so I can fix it tomorrow by 2 o clock. If you have any other questions, ask.

Thank You!

Tris

 

Unplug the MAF see if she starts. We'll go from there.

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"Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, he must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blind-folded fear."

-Thomas Jefferson

 

Sounds like what happens with a bad MAF, are the injectors firing? Any code lights? What noise(s) does it make when you crank it? How high of rpms will it get(any sign of combustion, or just starter cranking)?

Did you check your fuses? Fuel pump relay? Can you hear it prime? Just throwing stuff out here.

 

Could be the ignition module too. It sends a signal to the computer to fire the injectors.

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89 Transam GTA, 350TPI, auto, 3.27 rear, dual cats, gray.
Magnaflow cat-back,
K&N open element,
Best E.T. 14.63@95mph

 

alright guys i can shed some more light on this subject...its NOT the MAF...we've tried unplugging it..nothing...its not the ignition module...we put mine in(which is about 2 months old) we've put my ECM in as well...nothing...

As far as the injectors firing its hard to tell.....there is too much vibration and stuff to tell if they are clicking during start up...what tris really needs is a test light to see if the injectors are getting the signal to pulse...

He did throw a code 43 a day before the car stopped running...he has an 86 Firebird 2.8 parts car....is the ESC the same on a 2.8 as a L98? any more info would be great guys...this is really pissing us off

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Originating member of the SJNEP Crew
Vice President of the Jersey Fbody Crew(JFA)
Check out MyGTA Nicknamed:The Big Red Machine
***AOL IM RiceEatinGTA***
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"What does not kill us only makes us stronger"

Tony

 

I'd check that timing, mine was set waaaaaaaay BTDC. It wouldn't knock much that was audiable, but the ESC code would go off like crazy. The esc was retarding the timing so it wouldn't knock. It was also very hard to start.
Just a thought


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Corry Lazarowitz
clazarow@voicenet.com
clazarowitz@hotmail.com
1987 Pontiac Trans AM (GTA?) 350 or is it a 305?! TPI
SLP 1 3/4" headers, 3" cat back (stock cat
MSD ignition.
MSD Blaster SS coil.
3.73 Rear end gears
Accell 8.8 Wires
Bosh +4 Spark Plugs (Don't know if they really help but hell!)
Holley AFPR
Race Built Automatic trans ('vette servo, shift kit, tightly packed clutches)--just needs titanium gears now!
Newly gutted cat (the car gutted it's own cat!)
Hypertech Chip (Just found out I had it! :eek
More soon when funds are avail...

[This message has been edited by Corry (edited June 15, 2001).]

 

we thought it was the timing as well but its set at the factory setting...6* BTDC

 

Timing doesnt make much sense either, the car was running fine the night before this happened... and I had set it at 6* a while back. Plus, if it WAS the timing, it shouldn't start w/ the fuel put into the plenum.

Tris

 

I was tripping a code 43 for a while and popped in a new Ignition module and that was the end of the code but the car still did and does run like crap.

 

DEFINATLY check the ignition module.

 

we swapped in mine which is about 2-3 months old as ealier stated

 

Sorry, was just about to close the post when I had thought of that...and forgot some of the impt info you wrote...

Well, if it starts w/ fuel being sprayed in the plenum and dies, you got a fuel delivery problem. You eliminated filter and pump, next in line is Injectors/ECM, make sure the injectors are getting pulses. Use a "noid" light to check. If you are getting a signal, remove the rails hold them just above the intake, and see if the injectors spray. Others on the board know the resistance the injector coils should be, but it's not in the helm manual (That I can find anyways!) but you can check the resistance of the coils as a test also. If no signal it is ECM, or the ecm isn't recieving distributer signal. If there is signal, and the injectors arent firing, or ar just dribbling (not atomizing) you got bad injectors. If they aren't firing at all, well you got real bad injectors. Either way, if the injectors are bad, send 'em to www.cruzinperformance.com Usually the charge is around $80 for the cleaning/matching service. If the injectors are beyond repair, I believe he can also sell you new/used ones and flow match them all.
Again, sorry about the mix-up back there...just had a brain fart!
Corry

 

LOL corry its cool...as far as a bad ECM its not...i threw in mine and it changed nothing...i've never heard of injectors just going....so my bet there is a fried wire somewhere....first thing is first though...we are gonna see if the injectors are at least getting the signal to pulse....

 

My guess would be the fuel pump. Can you hear the fuel pump energize when you turn the key on?? I'd venture to say that if it's not the pump itself then it's the wiring or the relay, like something is heating up or getting knocked around while driving and when the car settles, you have no power to the pump. Check to see how many amps your pump is drawing when you energize it, I forget how many amps are acceptable, Vader, wanna give us a hand??

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Kevin Irving
85 Trans Am WS-6, 305 TPI, custom burned '86 PROM with '87 "165"ECM, Accel Supercoil & 8.8 Wires, Rapidfire #2 @ .055", MSD 6AL, 1.6:1 Roller tipped rockers, Homemade AFPR, K&N cone, no airbox, Aluminum Driveshaft, Wonderbar, TB Coolant Bypass, Ported Plenum, Descreened MAF, Syclone Fuel Pump, JET Airfoil, Mobil 1 synth in all but transmission.

http://www.geocities.com/transam85tpi/

 

the pump is new and getting power....

 

I hate to say it but the same exact thing happened to my brothers formula and it was the distributor, needed a new one and there went another 200 dollars. Good luck and try swapping distributors. Later

 

BLADE/Fly,

Check the INJ1 and INJ2 fuses. These supply 12VDC to the injector banks. The ECM provides the ground path for the injectors to operate (open).

Also check the engine and ECM grounding. Make sure the VATS system is allowing the injectors to operate.

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Later,
Vader
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"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Vader...the fuses are fine....i forgot about the grounding....that'll sure do it....also what other things should we look for wiring wise...what wires would be key to solving this damn puzzle...

everyone thanks for the opinions and comments keep em coming

 

Fly,

If you want to test-fire the injectors, ground the bank right at the injector harness. The blue and green wires on opposite banks are the grounds, and it won't cause any harm to ground the circuit right to the block to test the injectors. You can do this while the engine is off, ignition ON, and be able to hear them fire. Connect one injector per bank, then use one of the "free" connectors to ground the appropriate wire. Move the connectors to each injector and test each one individually. You should hear the click and see fuel pressure drop. Don't leave them on for more than a couple of seconds straight, or the coils might overheat with no fuel flowing through to cool them.

If all the injectors fire, the ECM is not controlling them. Check continuity on the green and blue wires back to the ECM on terminals D16 and D15. You should also have continuity from the HEI module purple/white and black/red wires back to the ECM on terminals B5 and B3 respectively. If the ECM is not getting a distributor reference pulse, the injectors will not operate. Terminals D1, D3, D6, D10, and A12 all should have a solid ground path to the chassis and engine.

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Later,
Vader
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"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Fly - Don't overlook the VATS system. Even if the engine is cranking, the injectors might be disabled. Monitor the SECURITY light when you first turn on the ignition.

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Later,
Vader
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"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

SWEET MAN thanks for the info...with all that i'm sure we can pinpoint the problem!! thanks a million...we'll let u know what we find tomorrow!!!!!!! thanks again guys

 

Alright...what SHOULD the Security light do??? And what should it NOT do?? I need to know what I am looking for!!! Thanks!

Tris

 

When you insert the key and turn on the ignition, the SECURITY or PASS KEY FAULT lamp should turn on for about five seconds. There should be no flashing, only a steady lamp. If the lamp is flashing the system does not recognize the key resistance as being correct for the car.

After five seconds the lamp should turn off. If it remains on or flashing, you have a fault.

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Later,
Vader
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"Let the bodies hit the floor!"
Adobe Acrobat Reader

 

Well, the injectors are getting 12 volts to them. VATS is fine. I tried to start the car, and it caught for a second, but then stalled..... does this give anyone any new ideas?

 

Wait wait wait.... I think my VATS light is staying on when I key on. Not sure, I will have to double check. If it IS stayinmg on, what does this mean and how do I fix it??????

 

well...guess what it was? the wires that go from the coil to the ignition module...and partly VATS...tris' alarm is a POS never get a Prestige

Everyone...thanks for the input and opinions...we appreciate it...now tris can actually drive the car...but now he's gonna try to race me...and we all know his car isn't as fast as mine

 

guys he's still throwing a code 43...could it be a bad knock sensor? the car is at least running...and running well when it doesn't throw a code...the saga continues