I have a vortec motor mateinced cleaned up ect.. what carbed intake would any of yous suggest? shootin for 3 thousand on the motor with 350 at the wheels hopefully

 

edelbrock rpm airgap

 

A little bit more engine info would be useful, but if your running a fairly mild cam and compression, you might be better off with the Performer series rather than the RPM. In either case I like the AirGap idea.

The Performer series is designed to make the power down a bit lower, and is about maxed out at 5500 RPM or so. The RPM series runs about 1000 RPM higher in the powerband, say 1500 to 6500 RPM. Both are good dual plane manifolds, stay away from a single plane like the Victor JR unless you want really poor performance at the lower end of the powerband.

Hope this helps,

Steve

 

hey i dont know much about what i want but have the money to do it.. Like im not very educated to know what cam i need ect...

I think i'm getting the Scatt Crank 9000

This guy that sold me the motor said a "282 crane cam" not sure what he meant by the numbers but he said sumtin like a 292 would be more of a loopey rather then below would be more for performance.. so i have no clue what cam to exactley get but "282"

Getting my vortec heads ported and polished

Forged pistons cause i'm thinking about going with like a 100 shot of nitrous

anything that can get me to 350 at the wheels on a budget.. not including the 100 shot so 350 all motor

and i appreciate your help guys
:hail:

 

Ok, now I'm confused. Are you getting the motor built for you, or have you bought one and not know what's in it, or are you planning on having one built?

My best advice for you is don't think 350hp at wheels or any thing else. What you want to do is sit down and first figure out EXACTLY what your main uses for this car are going to be... Cruising around with an occassional drag strip run on grudge / street nite at the track?, Serious street performance with trips to the track a weekly experence, pretty much a drag car, with occasional street use. Be honest with yourself.

Once you've got that figured out, I suspect that there are a number of people here who will share combinations that will get you where you want to go. Generally speaking, and yes, there are exceptions, it is much easier to build a primary street or primary strip engine. Trying to build one that excels at both can be difficult, and there are always tradeoffs that must be made.

The Vortec heads are about the best deal out there for good iron heads, but they have their limitations when it comes to lift. Any machine shop can fix that for a very reasonable price. Most of the people that I've talked to, and most of the articles that I've read recommend doing anything to the Vortec heads other then just some very mild blending on the bowls. Most porting attempts seem to make them actually flow worse.

Lastly, don't believe everything that a person trying to sell you something might say. A well performing engine is much more than just a collection of parts, all of the parts have to work in harmony with the rest for the results to be the best they can for your use. The wrong cam, wrong Compression Ratio, Torque Converter can turn an expensive combination into a pig.

Hope this helps

Steve

 

Cruising around with an occassional drag strip run on grudge / street nite at the track

is exactley what im trying to accomplish.. when the motors in i wont be driving the car very very often.. i'll probably have a beater car.

I'm not trying to get very serious since this is my first build up.. just want somthing simple 350 hp at the wheels, msd ignition, you kno the deal.. its gunna be backed with a T56.

Yeah from what i have read.. a motor isnt just about the best parts slapped together.. you have to get what the motor is asking for..

Basically what i'm asking for is help since i dont have the knowledge maybe yous can help me that have experience

I will be purchasing all of the parts for the motor and someone will be assembling it

 

Do a search on vortec heads and you will yield an assortment of information’s. Screw in studs is a plus if you plan to use 100 NOS. With 3K, you can build a really nice sleeper motor w/carb but you will also need to factor in the suspension, transmission, and rear end. I see that you have a V-6 so you will definitely need a replacement tranny since the one in your car will not bolt up. Here is a pic of the vortec air gap RPM manifold:

 

wow .. thats weird does the carb bolt on top of that

edit: wups lol.. that is the carb isnt it.. it looks funky

 

if you wanna run a comp 282 cam youre gonna need to modify those vortecs for more lift i believe.... do some more reading and research before you get into buying stuff...youll be happy that you understand what youre getting and why youre getting it.

 

see you kno what 282 is.. wth....yeah i kno they have to be machined for more lift

 

Hey, Crazy...that's TBI dude.

 

my bad.. im only 16 bare with me still learnin.. just haven seen sumtin like that .. i have TBI i guess it just all dont look the same

 

Ok, now we're getting some place. There have been a TON of builds for that type engine, here is a link to one that should give you a very nice starting point Danger Mouse Best Build A little bit over 400 HP crank, and more important for most of us, a torque curve that starts low, and is pretty flat all the way thru. I've heard nothing but good things about that particular cam on the nova board I frequent, I'm putting about that same combination into my 79 Nova that I run in street and occasionally cruise around in.

Depending on other factors, that should get you about 330-350 RWP, and put your car into the mid 12's without any problem, all things being equal and sorted out. All in all, it's really looks like a case where there are some parts that just really WANT to work together very nicely.

Hope this Helps....

Steve

 

thanks for your time in posting that and such.. but i see all these numbers lift and what not and like whoa.... but it mostly just talks about cam and intake... and the vortec heads.. i wish someone would just be like HERES a part list buy all of this and ull be in the 350 hp at the wheels range lol

 

OK here ya go buy this

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/120/...ate-Engine.htm

 

Thats not going to happen...sorry

 

i understand.. so I'll buy that vortec air gap RPM manifold as goes for my intake

 

OK so here's what i found at summit..

I'm not sure what year my vortec motor is, and there's different model intakes on here for example this one here thats for 96 and later

http://store.summitracing.com/partde...w=257&applid=%

and theres this one that says nothing about 96 and later

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=EDL%

EDL-75014 Intake Manifold, Carbureted, Aluminum, Natural, Dual Plane, Chevy, Small Block, Each
2/16 $319.95

that link isnt working for somereason.. and its weird because that intake for 96 and later doesnt say nothing about nitrous.. i confused

I like the ones that are polished they look good for show..but is there a way to tell what year my vortec heads are?

heres a pic of yous can tell if not i'm sure theres some kind of marking on them of some sort

thanks again for your time guys i appreciate it

 

Use the RPM Air-Gap (the year stuff is unimportant as long it says for Vortec heads) along with a cam like the CompCams XE268 or XE274 (I'd err on the side of caution and go with the XE268 myself) along with 1.6 rockers. (you will need the Vortecs slightly modded to handle the lift which I believe you said you'd be doing). If you have somewhere around 9.5:1 compression or so with the pistons you're using you will have a stout engine that should reach your 350hp at the wheels goal.

I'm running the Vortecs unmodified with the XE262 like they used in the above article and a standard Performer RPM intake, and it runs pretty damn strong. Don't know about the 415hp they got on their dyno though, seems a bit high for the XE262. But hey...

 

xe 268 is best cam you can use with a stock converter,xe274 is a challenge if you don't make other mods.
Eric

 

ohh alright its weird cause the guy told me "282 comp cam" so your sayen that would be too much? or is the "xe 268" more performed then the regular "282" fill me in thanks for your help guys..

so far

Rpm air gap intake

Scatt crank

Forged Pistons


Not sure yet on- What carb=on a slight budget not looking to pay 600$

xe 268 is best cam you can use with a stock converter,xe274 is a challenge if you don't make other mods.

what other mods are you refering to?

 

crazy3rdgen,

Are those pics of your heads? If so, those aren't Vortec heads.

See the little "hump" between the accessory holes? That's not what Vortecs have. Vortec heads have three little pyramids lined up in a row.

They look like this....

/\/\/\

Yours don’t have that.

What's the casting number on those heads?

 

whhattt tthheee fuuccckkkk aarree you kidding me i will be right back with numbers

 

The only Vortec heads that you want have casting numbers 906 or 062... anything else, it's not the heads you want. There no such thing as "almost as good".

 

i got the same looking heads in my garage with no sawtooth mark with the casting 906...beats me?

 

Casting numbers tell all. If they end in "906", then they are Vortec (10239906 is the full Vortec number). Other than that, looks are nothing more than hints. Things like the markings, the intake bolts, etc.

 

AJ_92RS crazy3rdgen,

Are those pics of your heads? If so, those aren't Vortec heads.

"aj" come on man.. dont do that to me.. i got scared for a second.. heres the real truth in the picture, thanks for your lack of knowledge on vortec heads... lol jp its ok we all make mistakes but you scared me to death!

 

:shrug:

I have two sets of Vortec heads, but they're both 062 castings and both have the pyramids.

Sorry. It's one time I'm glad I made a mistake.

Besides, gotta keep you on your toes.

 

ohh alright its weird cause the guy told me "282 comp cam" so your sayen that would be too much? or is the "xe 268" more performed then the regular "282" fill me in thanks for your help guys..

so far

Rpm air gap intake

Scatt crank

Forged Pistons


Not sure yet on- What carb=on a slight budget not looking to pay 600$

xe 268 is best cam you can use with a stock converter,xe274 is a challenge if you don't make other mods.


what other mods are you refering to?

ps: i have vortec heads dont listen to that big gap in my thread

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=46098

NEW HOLLEY STREET AVENGER 670 CFM CARBURETOR!

that should be pretty good right?

Should i pick the Lt4 hotcam over those other comp cams

or will they perform better

 

The 2 Comp numbers you asked about are flat tappet. The LT4 HOT cam is a roller.

The 2 Comps are aggresive, aftermarket, carb cams. The LT4 HOT cam is set up to be FI-friendly.

One of the Comp cams you asked about is a solid; the other is a hydraulic. The HOT cam is a hydraulic.

If your Vortec heads are stock, the most lift you can run before the bottom of the retainers smacks into the top of the valve guides, is somewhere around .460" - 480". If you haven't done some work to those heads to take care of that, you WILL HAVE valve train problems with ANY of those cams. What has been / will be done to your heads to prep them to be something other than truck heads?

If you want to go with a carb, you can do better than the HOT cam. If you want to go with a roller cam, you can do alot better than the HOT cam. You can get ALOT better performance out of a solid than a hydraulic. You can get ALOT more out of a roller than a flat tappet.

You do the math. I think you can eliminate the HOT cam from consideration quite easily.

IMO a 670 carb is too small for the rest of the parts you're talking about; even if you de-tune the motor by running the HOT cam.

If you're going to run the heads as-is without any machine work, you need to back off on the cam.

 

hey man i understand, its ok i kno theres alot i talked about in my thread but yes

My vortec heads will be machined for more lift clearance also i heard some mild blending of the bowls and thats it for these heads, it will have to do to reach my 350+ mark.

you suggest a bigger carb

"IMO a 670 carb is too small for the rest of the parts you're talking about"

really? hmm so what are your thought as for a carb in the 300$ range like the 670 avenger.

Cam

So i guess my choices are either the xe 268 or the xe 274 does anyone have a clue of which one i should consider over the other for my build, but their like you said flat tappet and not roller

" You can get ALOT more out of a roller than a flat tappet"

so i guess i could get a better cam then those 2 , is that what your saying?

and i'm sorry i dont know too much about engine building but i'm starting to learn , you dont know much i appreciate yous goin out of your time to help me get my motor completed, thank you :hail:

 

before i suggest anything, i must know, do you know what xe268 stand for?

 

Well...

Does your block support the factory roller system? That is, does it have the bolt bosses for the spider thing in the intake valley, and the top of the lifter bores milled off, and the bolt holes in the front of the block for the retainer plate? Do you have the spider, the dog bones, the retainer, etc.?

If so, you'd be better off with a roller cam. If not, you'd still be better off with a roller; but it'll cost ALOT more. Enough more that it's probably out of the question.

So, the first thing you should do, is find out about that.

What machine work have the heads had done to them? That's the next, really important, thing you need to determine, before you're ready to pick a cam. If the heads haven't had the guides cut down, you CANNOT use a cam with more than .480" of lift, PERIOD. Instant violent complete destruction, shredding of parts with metal shavings in the oil and consequent wipe-out of other parts such as main and rod bearings, WILL occur. You want to get all you can, without going over the limit. You'll need new valve springs, regardless.

All of the Street Avenger carbs cost about the same. For a 350 with those heads, to get the benefit of the heads which is FLOW, you need a somewhat larger hole on the top than what a 670 carb provides. That carb would be small enough that it becomes the overall restriction. The right size carb for a 350 with those heads and a dual plane intake is about a 750.

Cheeeeeper isn't always better. That $35 difference or whatever, will bite you in the rear, when you line up next to somebody with the identical same motor as yours, and he hands you your a$$, because your engine has this restriction on it. Buy the right thing, and get all the power your other parts can deliver.

I ran a Comp 282S for over a decade in my car, in a 400. Great cam. Ran like a scalded dog. It was (is) a stick car though, it might have been a bit much for an auto on the street. I replaced it with a XE274, which was an even better cam; and even a little more over the edge of what I'd consider "tolerable" with an auto trans. Your tolerance for "big cam" behavior might be different from mine though, I can't make that call for you. What I think is barely even a minor nuisance, might be totally intolerable to you; or vice-versa.

 

mw66nova

before i suggest anything, i must know, do you know what xe268 stand for?

I think the "xe" is for extreme energy..? the numbers im not sure, i guess the part number and series


Rb83l69

What machine work have the heads had done to them?

What ever needs to be done,

The heads arent even touched yet, thats why i'm looking into how much cam i can get so i know what to have them machined at and what to get done to them,

The block i still didnt pick up yet trying to make room for it but the winter is just a big set back in getting much done. So i have no clue about "spider thing in the intake valley" sorry. alls i have from the motor here are the heads, bolts, oil pump,pistons push rods, rods, rockers, rocker arms, lifters and heads.

I want to get everything together so when the weather cools down and my money starts pourin in i can buy everything i need and have it shipped the same time. Just be easier

I went to summit cause ebay had no 750's in my budget and this is what i came up with on summit

HLY-65-4779 Carburetor, Remanufactured, Holley, 750 CFM, 4-Barrel, Square Bore, Dual Inlet, Each
Monday $356.88

then theres others just the same but with single inlet and or "vacuum" i think the one i copied and pasted is the best out of them.. cause its more expensive.

so let me get an idea of how this lift problem is fixed? do they machine where the valves are so they go in more i dont get it , sorry maybe if you tell my the term of this i can search and get pictures so i understand more of whats goin on

 

Here's a pic of a head, cross-sectioned through the intake port.

Look at the thing in the green circle. That's the valve guide. The valve stem goes through it, the spring goes around it; the retainer sits on the end of the valve, somewhat above the top of the guide. The exhaust is basically the same.

Vortec heads have a HUGE guide boss. It's bigger around at the bottom than the one on this head; and it's taller. It prevents the valve from being able to open (pushed downward) more than .460" or so, because the retainer runs into the guide. Additionally, the outer diameter of the pocket in the head where the spring goes, is too small to accept anything except those weenie less-than-stock truck springs those heads come with; and the outer diameter of the guide, where it steps down rather like in hte pic except even bigger, is too large for anything but a single spring with no damper to fit down over it.

 

Here's a pic of someone's aftermarket head. Note how the spring pocket is much much larger, and the OD of the guide is much smaller. You can fit altogether more spring into this head, than any stock head; but especially Vortecs. And you want all the spring you can get, up to a point, to control the valve motion, and keep it from bouncing off the seat when it closes.

 

OHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

i'm pretty sure i totally understand now, so if the cam is big and is making the push rods rise too much then the rocker is forcing the spring down all the way to where the rocker is hitting the valve guide.. am i right?

 

Almost.... but, it's the retainer that will hit the top of the guide, not the rocker. The retainer is the large round piece on top of the valve spring.

 

ohhhHH i got ya.. that makes so much sense to me, that would be a disaster i'll tell the guy what cam im runnin or that i "will" run when i figure that out and im sure he'll know how much to machine them or is there a standard lenght

 

So....

You have a number of factors to consider.

1. Cost - machine work is EXPENSIVE. It's real easy to run up so much of a tab in working up a set of stock heads, that you reach a point where for just a couple more coins, you could have vastly superior (or maybe not) aftermarket castings instead.

2. Intended purpose - Depending on what you want the finished product to do, there's a level you can reach beyond which any more work accomplishes nothing toward your goal.

3. Longevity - You can often do the "bare minimum" required to get something to work; but the price will be a short lifetime.

Just as a practical matter, stock ports in Vortec heads flow about 400 HP, give or take a few. You can get a little more if you use better valves than the truck valves they come with. In a 350, that's about 6500 RPM. So, in order to fully use the heads' capabilities, you need to build the motor to top out at or just above 6500 RPM. In the real world, a cam with about 225° - 230° of .050" intake duration will get you to that point; the XE268 or XE274 for example (224° and 230° respectively). Other mfrs such as Crane, Lunati, Isky, Crower, etc. have cams of similar specs. Or, if your block turns out to be a roller, the XR276HR or XR282HR (or similar) are in the range you want.

All of those cams will work the best with a spring with 1.45" outer diameter; and if you have that work done, and the guide cut down, have them cut the guide OD to .530", so you can use the Teflon valve guide seals. You should also get the stock pull-out studs pulled out, and the holes milled & drilled & tapped for screw-in studs; and use good quality studs, and guide plates. That way you don't have to use self-aligning rockers. Your choices are much more varied.

Personally, if I was building a Vortec 350, I'd aim for a XR282 if it was hydraulic, or XR280 solid; 1.45" springs and guide seals as I described; Comp 1302 1.6 roller rockers; and I'd use Manley "Street Flow" valves, with undercut heads. That's not cheap, but it's not overkill either, and would pretty much max out what the heads can give. That combo, with 1¾" headers and the Air Gap and the 4779 carb, should deliver near 450 HP, with daily-driver reliability for at least 50,000 miles (as long as the short block is up to the challenge).

 

wow i'm in amaze on how much you know, taking me awhile im gunna read it all over and over

 

you say you got the lifters there crazy3rdgen? check to see if theres a roller wheel on the bottom of the lifter. that will solve the roller or not deal.

 

HLY-65-4779 Carburetor, Remanufactured, Holley, 750 CFM, 4-Barrel, Square Bore, Dual Inlet, Each
$356.88

that looks pretty good right?\

then theres other holley's that are single inlet and then one says vacuum,

lol 450 at the crank then to the wheels is what probably alittle over 350 thatd be a bonus

 

yep

 

sry but i'll have to talk later tonight i gotta head to work ttyl

thanks again for the help:hail:

 

roller it is.... i would stay away from those remanufactured carbs.

 

It think it all kind of depends on where you buy them. I ordered an edelbrock Reman, and honestly would never buy a new one again. The Reman was just as good quality and still carried a warranty.

 

You can machine the heads yourself to fit the xe268 with 1.6 rockers. You need a
-Comp cams (11/32 arbor pn:4732)
-Comp cams valve guide cutter tool pn:4726 (for .530 teflon seals) & make room for more lift...you should shave about .200" )
-Comp cams spring pocket inlarging tool (1.44") pn:4718 to fit 1.44"double spring Comp cams pn:986-16)

And if you what to put screwin studs
-Manley tool pn:41860

I done all the job my self on my 906 vortec heads i also add Manley Pro flow valve.They are good to .540" of lift.

I am runing a rpm air gap.