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Too Much Compression!?!?!

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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 05:48 PM
  #1  
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From: Grand Rapids, Mi
Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: T-56 waiting to go in!
Axle/Gears: 3.73:1
Too Much Compression!?!?!

Well i found a set of AFR heads for sale for a good price....theyre 195's, only thing is they have 60 cc chambers. Will this make too much compression for me to run 93 octane?? Heres my specs

350 bored .040
Speed Pro Flat Top 10.5:1 Pistons (dunno about valve reliefs)
not sure about deck height either but im pretty sure its stock
Will choose head gasket thickness based on suggestions
60 cc chambers obviously

What will my CR be??
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 06:33 PM
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We need more info on the pistons. What cc chamber are they rated at 10.5 CR?

Last edited by anondude13; Feb 8, 2005 at 06:38 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 06:40 PM
  #3  
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From: Saskatoon, SK, Canada
Car: '83 Z28, '07 Charger SRT8
Engine: 454ci, 6.1 Hemi
Transmission: TH350, A5
Axle/Gears: 2.73 posi, 3.06 posi
Originally posted by r3pp3r
We need more info on the pistons. What cc chamber are they rated at 10.5 CR?
If they are rated 10.5 for 64cc heads, you'll probably be up around 11:1 with 60cc heads.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 06:45 PM
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FWIW ~10.5:1 can be done on an iron head SBC with 93 octane, but you will have to take a lot of timing out to avoid knock. I dunno about 11:1...
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 06:58 PM
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Assuming a stock deck height block and stock compression (pin) height pistons, (piston top is .025" below deck at TDC) 5cc valve reliefs and a .039" head gasket =10.25:1
use a .051" gasket =9.95:1

More deck clerance will lower the cr, less will increase it.

The only way to tell for sure is to assemble the motor and measure it. Every thing else is just a guess.

You can use thick " head saver" head gaskets.
you can open up "deshroud" the combustion chambers on the heads to lower the compression ratio.
there is lots of meat on these heads to do this.

Don't guess, don't assume this or that, don't ask 50 people, don;t worry about it.
Measure it and adjust the cr using one of these methods.
You can calc the cr yourself
here.

typical 350 head gasket bore size is 4.166"
stock deck height is .025" typical valve relief volume on flat tops is 5cc's.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:01 PM
  #6  
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Originally posted by F-BIRD'88
Assuming a stock deck height block and stock compression (pin) height pistons, (piston top is .025" below deck at TDC) 5cc valve reliefs and a .039" head gasket =10.25:1
use a .051" gasket =9.95:1

More deck clerance will lower the cr, less will increase it.

The only way to tell for sure is to assemble the motor and measure it. Every thing else is just a guess.

You can use thick " head saver" head gaskets.
you can open up "deshroud" the combustion chambers on the heads to lower the compression ratio.
there is lots of meat on these heads to do this.

Don't guess, don't assume this or that, don't ask 50 people, don;t worry about it.
Measure it and adjust the cr using one of these methods.
You can calc the cr yourself
here.

typical 350 head gasket bore size is 4.166"
stock deck height is .025" typical valve relief volume on flat tops is 5cc's.
His .04 overbore is gonna bring up CR, in case you didn't already take that into account.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:02 PM
  #7  
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From: Cypress, California
Car: 1989 GTA
Engine: 369 TPI
Transmission: 4L60E
Axle/Gears: 3.70 Nine Bolt
Ditto the above post. Allen
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:04 PM
  #8  
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Originally posted by r3pp3r
His .04 overbore is gonna bring up CR, in case you didn't already take that into account.
I did.... click on the link , enter the numbers and try it your self.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:08 PM
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MonteMan357's Avatar
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From: Grand Rapids, Mi
Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: T-56 waiting to go in!
Axle/Gears: 3.73:1
what about on aluminums?? cant they handle a higher CR?

Last edited by MonteMan357; Feb 8, 2005 at 07:11 PM.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:13 PM
  #10  
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
Originally posted by MonteMan357
what about on aluminums??
????????? Is it farther to New York, or by Bus?

What about aluminum?

Generally an engine with aluminum heads will tolerate about .5 compression ratio more than cast iron, on the same octane fuel.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:15 PM
  #11  
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From: Waterloo, Iowa
Car: 86 firebird with 98 firebird interi
Engine: pump gas 427sbc Dart Lil M 13.5:1
Transmission: Oldani TH400 w/ BTE 9" convertor
Axle/Gears: 31 spline Moser/full spool/4.11Rich
Even at 11:1 you'll be fine with premium pump gas. The aluminum heads disappate heat so quickly it's generally accepted to be like knocking 1 point off your compression. Try replacing iron heads with aluminum heads on a realitively stock low compression motor and you will loss power.

Going to depend on how deep the slugs are in the hole too, if your block is flat decked then all the piston, head gasket, chamber size will come into play, but if your slugs are deep in the hole, you'll lose some compression that way too.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 07:39 PM
  #12  
MonteMan357's Avatar
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From: Grand Rapids, Mi
Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: T-56 waiting to go in!
Axle/Gears: 3.73:1
thanks for the replys guys....i guess i should just pull a head and do some measurements, but i just wanted to get some general info on what CR COULD be run
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 09:47 PM
  #13  
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Originally posted by MonteMan357
thanks for the replys guys....i guess i should just pull a head and do some measurements, but i just wanted to get some general info on what CR COULD be run
I'd say keep the AFR's and shoot for a 10:1 CR. If you have to change your pistons then do so.
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Old Feb 8, 2005 | 11:07 PM
  #14  
MonteMan357's Avatar
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From: Grand Rapids, Mi
Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: T-56 waiting to go in!
Axle/Gears: 3.73:1
How do i check all the measuremenmts i.e. deck height etc?

Last edited by MonteMan357; Feb 9, 2005 at 06:56 PM.
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Old Feb 9, 2005 | 07:34 PM
  #15  
MonteMan357's Avatar
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From: Grand Rapids, Mi
Car: 1991 Z28
Engine: 357
Transmission: T-56 waiting to go in!
Axle/Gears: 3.73:1
ttt
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Old Feb 12, 2005 | 11:03 PM
  #16  
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From: Ontario, Canada
Car: 1988 Firebird S/E
Engine: 406Ci Vortec SBC
Transmission: TH-350/3500stall
Axle/Gears: 7.5" Auburn 4.10 Posi-Traction
You can measure the piston deck clearance with the head off the motor.

Bolt a steel straight edge across the deck of 1 cylinder.
Put a feeler guage under the straight edge.
Rotate the crank shaft by hand, bringing the piston to and past TDC. Try different thickness guages till you find the one that just fits.
Attached Thumbnails Too Much Compression!?!?!-deckh1.jpg  
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Old Feb 13, 2005 | 12:08 AM
  #17  
ME Leigh's Avatar
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From: Valley of the Sun
Car: 82 Z28
Engine: Al LT1 headed LG4 305
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: 3.73 posi with spacer
Take the old die grinder to the chambers, and gain a couple of cc's.
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