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Fuel + Spark = No fire.

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Old Apr 17, 2005 | 11:51 AM
  #1  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
Fuel + Spark = No fire.

I'm lost on this now. Camaro was running good, but i got a new car so I could use the camaro for a weekend car before i really got into tearing it down.
Car sat for 10 days, I got in to go for a ride and it started right up like always. Went about 10 miles and parked it to get lunch, and it wouldn't restart... It cranks over, but i wasn't getting spark at the time. I pulled the distributor and bench tested it, works great. Put on a new cap and rotor while it was apart.
Checked the spark plugs, looked like normal wear, but replaced them just cause they were out and are a pain to get in.. Checked engine and chassis ground wires, still look good. I replaced the plug wires a few months ago so I didn't think they would be a problem.
So I put everthing back together, and still no fire.. Pulled #1 plug to check for spark and it had spark.. Tried pulling the tach. wire off the dist. to make sure that wasn't causing any problems, but still no fire...

So now I'm lost, tried all my tricks and still defeated..
Car has a vacuum advance HEI distributor with a edelbrock non-cc carb #1405.
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Old Apr 17, 2005 | 02:28 PM
  #2  
Token's Avatar
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From: Toledo, OH
Car: 1992 Firebird
Engine: forged 357
Transmission: 700r4, 2200-2400 stall, vette servo
Axle/Gears: stock pegleg 2.73 drum (temp)
are you sure the valve lash is set properly?
how's your timing?
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Old Apr 17, 2005 | 07:07 PM
  #3  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
valve lash should be fine, motor only has about 50k miles and all i've changed is the intake manifold, carb and dist.
timing should be good, i marked the dist. and intake before so i'd know where to put them back to. and the dist isn't 180* off either..
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Old Apr 17, 2005 | 07:22 PM
  #4  
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From: California
Car: Pontiac
did you try starting fluid? if it fires with starting fluid you know you have a problem with your fuel delivery. if it won't start with starting fluid it s ignition problem. maybe
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 06:58 PM
  #5  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
tried starting fluid, still a no go...
any others?
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 08:01 PM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: Fuel + Spark = No fire.

Originally posted by Rage13.Fuel + Spark = No fire.
Fuel + Spark + AIR = Fire

You're getting spark, and fuel, but how about air? Is the choke opening?
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 08:13 PM
  #7  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
choke is wired open, never been cold enough to need the choke
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 08:26 PM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by Rage13.choke is wired open, never been cold enough to need the choke
If you're getting spark, fuel and air (and the wires are routed correctly), then there's really no reason a carbureted engine shouldn't crank over (or try/want to).

Is it possible you flooded the carb the first time out, then when you initially looked for the culprit... when you put everything back on, you installed something backward by rushing?
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 08:45 PM
  #9  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
i've had the dist. apart so meany times i could do blind. (spent 5 months messing with it before i found the pick up coil was bad..)
wasn't rushing it either, its not my daily driver any more. could have flooded the carb maybe, but it should have started the day after or when i pulled the plugs and pumped out the cylinders right?
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Old Apr 18, 2005 | 11:58 PM
  #10  
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From: Tigard, Oregon
Car: '86 Berlinetta
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
the spark plugs are gapped correctly, right?

if you mess w/ your distributor's timing while trying to start it does it make it harder/easier to start?

whats the color/quality of your spark?

is your firing order correct? It's sooooooo easy to think that you did it right, but get it wrong still yet. I've included a picture of the firing order so that you can double check that.

The simple things are normally the hardest things to narrow down!
Attached Thumbnails Fuel + Spark = No fire.-chevyfire.gif  
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Old Apr 19, 2005 | 04:36 PM
  #11  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
plugs are all gaped at .045

adjusting the timing makes no difference..

plug wires are all right.

also just pulled the valve covers to make sure the valves are all opening and closing. (co-worker thought maybe i wiped the cam and had no compression) but like everything else, working fine..

i'll check the color of the spark later when it gets dark out, also going to make sure i don't have a lightning show going on under the hood.

for once i wish i'd find something broken on my car
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Old Apr 19, 2005 | 07:48 PM
  #12  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
didn't see any sparks from the wires or anything around them..
pulled #1 plug to check the color, looks like a very light orange.
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Old Apr 19, 2005 | 10:30 PM
  #13  
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From: Tigard, Oregon
Car: '86 Berlinetta
Engine: 350
Transmission: 700R4
with a modded ignition you can get away with .045, but with a stock HEI ignition .035 is the recommended gap. You might want to regap your plugs and see if that helps your spark quality. I dont think light orange is ideal... I dont have a chart saying what color range is good though lol. Sorry I cant be of more use.
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Old Apr 20, 2005 | 04:13 AM
  #14  
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From: Delta, PA
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: L05 350 TBI
Transmission: 700r4-slippin' on it's last leg
have you checked/replaced the ignition module?
if that's not it, maybe you got something like a rag sucked down into the intake not letting fuel through(?) I know that's a long shot, but I've seen stranger things (ie: squirrel nests, etc...)
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Old Apr 20, 2005 | 06:33 AM
  #15  
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From: Pembroke Pines, FL
Car: 89 Firebird
Engine: 305
Transmission: T5
havn't replaced the module, but i don't think its bad. when i tested the dist on the table it was throwing a 3 inch arc and lighting up the little test light in the probe.
with the 60k volt accel super coil i thought the .045 gap was fine, thats what i've always set them at. going to replace the plug wires after work today, having a feeling i may have cooked them with glowing headers.
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Old Apr 20, 2005 | 07:37 AM
  #16  
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From: Houston, Texas
Car: 88' IROCZ
Engine: 388 TPI Motown 350 Race block
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 2.77
Originally posted by Rage13
havn't replaced the module, but i don't think its bad. when i tested the dist on the table it was throwing a 3 inch arc and lighting up the little test light in the probe.
with the 60k volt accel super coil i thought the .045 gap was fine, thats what i've always set them at. going to replace the plug wires after work today, having a feeling i may have cooked them with glowing headers.
Did you fix the lean condition "glowing headers?"
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I'd check compression on at least one cylinder per bank before doing anything else.

Find TDC by removing the #1 spark-plug, and plug the hole then, slowly bump the starter until the plug pops out, if the mark isn't within 90° before, or after the pointer, timing may be off.
if it takes more than 2 complete turns of the crank to pop the plug, compression may be too low, lean condition could have burned some valves.
I know holding a finger on the hole until you feel pressure works, but it doesn't help gage the compression.
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Old Apr 20, 2005 | 07:48 AM
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From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Originally posted by Rage13.going to replace the plug wires after work today, having a feeling i may have cooked them with glowing headers.
Make yourself a checklist. Start by setting you're valve-lash again, find TDC and point the rotor to the number 1 cylinder, install fresh plugs and wires (routed at 18436572). Make sure you have no vacuum leakage, make sure you're getting spark, make sure the fuel pump is delivering, and make sure you're getting enough air...

I know it's a hassle, but at least it will eliminate other possibilities. From here, we can move on to a malfunctioning ignition, or even electrical system.
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Old Apr 20, 2005 | 01:16 PM
  #18  
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From: Suffolk VA, Cleveland NY
Car: 84 Berlinetta
Engine: junk 350
Transmission: TH350
Axle/Gears: Moser 4.56
Orange isn't the optimal color for spark, sounds weak to me. You checked your rotor to make sure your dist is turning, right? Could the dist gear be spinning, and the shaft be stuck towards #1?
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