350 Vortec engine.

I removed the oil filter cooler adaptor
Removed the oil pan
Removed the "windage tray" and oil pump
Replaced all the rod bearings

REinstalled oil pump and windage tray
Oil pan
Cooler/filter adapter
New filter filled as much as you can fill one that screws on sideways
Filled w/oil
Cranked w/fuel pump realy out and primary ignition disconnected for at LEAST 2 minutes (with breaks)

No oil pressure. Why?

Could it be that adapter?

I know I got the pump to engage the dist drive...I could feel it click in. I don't know what's going on here.

-Tom

 

Did you use a new oil pump?
Why were you replacing all the rod bearings?

 

Nope. Same old oil pump, ehich was working just fine before I pulled it apart.

I changed the rod bearings because there had been the "vortec intake leak", leaking ELC into the oil pan. The ELC isn't a good lubricant. Turns out the bearings were fine, and didn't need changing, but since I was in there, I slapped the new ones in.

I think the problem is related to that filter/cooler adaper housing. But I don't know exactly how the oil flows through it, or what could be causing it to "dump".
-Tom

 

Did you try priming the pump with an old dist shaft or priming tool? Sometimes they can take a while to pick up a prime at engine cranking speed.

 

No. That was my next step.

The pump (and everything) had a lot of sludge fromthe ELC/oil mix. I put the pump (among other things) assy in the aquious parts cleaner. After I removedd it from the washer, it was obviouls full of water. I dumped it out, then filled a small container w/ oil. I placed the pick-up tube in the oil and rotated the pump shaft by hand, to fill the pump w/oil and remove any remaining water. To my surprize, it only took about 10 revolitions w/my hand until oil started coming out the discharge port. Then I bolted the oil-filled pump back onto the engine.

Of course some of the oild dripped out, but Seeing how quickly the pump drew oil and primed itself, I figure it shoudl have for sure by now in the vehicle. But I will try the drill-drive next.

Thanks for the time/responses.

-Tom

 

when you put the oil pump back in did you put the oil pump drive rod from the distributor back in LOL ..... did you put the that sump pickup back on the oil pump

 

Pump shaft came out w/the pump, adn went back in w/the pump.

It was attached to the pump w/ a lttle plastic, connector.

 

Spun the opump from the dist. hole. I can feel that it has oil in it, but it isn't building pressure.

I'm going to drop the filter/cooler adapter and see if I can see anything...

-Tom

 

Humm....maybe the bypass is stuck open?

 

I don't know. I'm at a complete loss now.

I'm going to have to drop the focking pan again and see WTF is going on in there. Grrr.

Last night I removed the oil filter and cranked it to see if oil came out. A tiny teeny stream dribbled out.

Then I removed the filter/cooler adaptor, and tried again...same thing.

It seems that eaither the relief in the pump is open for some unknown reason, or the pump isn't seated properly on it's mounting flange, and oil is just spraying back into the pan. This is sucking.

I do appreciate your thought and input though. Thanks again.

-Tom

 

Oh man, that just sucks I hate doing stuff twice. Good luck and let us know what the problem was when you get it apart.

 

when you put the oil pump back in did you bump the pickup tube and screw up the clearance on it? Or did you change oil pans while you were at it?

Almost sounds as if the pump were too close or too far away from the bottom of the oil pan.

 

When you rebuilt or redone the bottom end did you happen to take apart the pump and if you did and did not put the impellar back in correctly you are redirectling the flow by doing this.

 

Didn't change pans, didn't bump the pickup tube either.

Didn't take the pump apart either.

All I did was drop the pan, R&R all the rod bearing shells, which required removing the oil pump. So I R&R'ed the oil pump too...just because you have to. It's MUST have a stuck relief somehow. I don't know how.

Should there be a gasket between the pump and the rear main cap? There isn't so maybe that's causing the oil to leak out there. (?)


On another note, and maybe I should start a new thread for this, but:
I did this work, as I said above, because I have verified that there was an intake cooland leak, contaminating the oil w/ELC. There was what sounded like a rod knock upon start-up, AND we drew an oil sample and it showed coolant contamination, and high copper content. All the signs of a coolant leak resulting in damaged bearings.

But when I pulled the rod beaings, they looked excellent! Not only was there zero copper showing, but I scratched into one of the shells to see how much babbit was left, and I didn't even "hit copper". I could have slapped them back in probably but I changed them since I was in there. So where could the copper have come from in the oil sample??

 

Did you look at the main bearings?

There isn't any gasket between the pump and bearing cap mount. It would have to be a huge gap to produce the effect you're describing here.

You wouldn't be the first person to get ahold of a bad pump. What kind/brand is it?

When you have it apart this time, put on a pump drive shaft that has a built-on steel sleeve. That's not what's causing your problem, but it's cheap insurance.

 

Nothing in the oil filter adaptor will do what you describe, even if you were to have a damaged adaptor it would create more pressure not less. Replace the oil pump work up from there, it's possible the bearings you replaced were not the correct size but it still should have a reasonable amount of pressure cold.

 

No. I was being a little lazy, trying to "make good time" and extrapolating data from the rod shells onto the main shells...in my head.

I agree w/that, but I just thoguht I'd ask...just in case.

It's a Chevrolet brand pump. Been in the engine since new (130,000 miles). I was just putting the same old pump back in, that I took out. It had 40 PSI at cruising speed right before I took it apart.

10=4 on the adaptor. Thanks for that info. Unless the bearings (From teh Chevy dealer) were in the wrong box, they're the right size. The seem to fit fine. Plus the fact that cranking the engine w/no oil filter, and getting virtually no oil comming out, pretty much gets the bearings out of the picture, IMO.

Thanks for all this input guys. I'll definitely let you know what I find tonight.

-Tom

 

Did you pull the dist cap and verify that the rotor is spinning when you crank the engine? Might want to check that before you pull the pan.

 

For some reason I had it in my head that you had replaced the pump while you were in there. Reading back, I see that you clearly said you didn't.

Wouldn't be the first time that a seemly healthy pump died upon reinstallation. Back in '95...

 

Lol. I hear you, loud and clear.

 

It's running w/40+ PSI oil pressure.

The cause of my grief came directly from my own idiocy. When I tightend the bolt down that holds the pump on, I apparently didn't have the pump squarely on it's locating pins. So, the pump was held about 1/8" away from the rear main cap. Consequently, almost all of the oil the oil pump pumped, went directly back into the PAN. I just didn't catch it when i was putting it together the first time; trying to line up the pump-drive, hold up the pump and the "windage tray" w/one hand, while trying to get the bolt started and run the gun w/the other. So there it is...sloppy work.

Anyone come up w/any ideas as to where the high copper content came from in the oil sample?

-Tom

 

high copper content....uh..maybe you should have checked the main bearings...bearings are a sandwich between lead, copper and steel, were any of the rod bearings worn down to the copper or steel?

 

main bearings or cam bearings?

 

all of them are lead/copper/steel I belive, I'd suspect the main ones first though

 

Does that answer that question?

I did pull two of the main caps last night and they looked to be just as good as the rod shells all looked. I should have taken a pic, but basically, they looked like any high milage well maintained bearing should look; almost like new. Could the cam bearings be down to copper when the mains and rods aren't yet?? Oh well. If they are, too bad for them 'cause they're staying in there for another 100k miles.

 

sorry, I probably should read some of the posts I reply to allitle more closely

 

Hey Tom,

Did you look at the thrust surface at all on the rear main? Could be where your copper is coming from. Just a thought.

 

406, Good point on the thrust bearing. I didn't check that one, and I should have. Oh well. It's staying in there for a while now probably.

It's running great now, and I'll change the oil again in a week, then re-sample again in 3000 miles. Thanks for all the input!

-Tom