I cant figure out why the timing mark (static timing) on the damper (harmonic balancer) is at about 12 oclock position for a good running engine? Its so far off the timing tab, I have no idea what my staitic timing is!!!!

I thought that maybe I did not install the timing chain correctly. So I removed the timing chain cover and varied that the dot on the cam gear lined up perfectly with the mark on the crank spocket.

When I re-installed the damper, the timing mark on the damper is lined up perfectly with the 0 degree mark on the timing tab. Then I put everything back together and set the static timing for 10 degrees advanced.

The engine runs like total crap. If I set the static timing way advanced, like at the 12 oclock position on the front of the engine, the engine runs great.

What the hell is wrong???????
It should not be this way!!!

Note: I do know to pull the computer plug to set static timing, and I have checked the damper for the outer ring rotating, none obvious.

Does anyone have an idea here to help me?


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'87 L98 TPI IROCZ, AFR190 heads, 3.70 gears, ZZ9 cam, 3000 Art Carr TC, SLP 1 3/4" headers, SLP cat-back, no cat, no AC, no MAF screens, Accel manifold base & SuperRam, 24#/hr SVO injectors, Edelbrock double roller timing chain, MSD ext coil & distributor, trans cooler, 52mm TB with airfoil, TB coolant bypass, AFPR(50psi), K&N filters, Hotchkis lowering springs, my custom chip, Lay Ind. ram air kit, SS Brakes 1LE upgrade 12" rotors dual piston calipers, 265/45R16 Kumho V700 tires.
ET 13.27sec @ 103mph on MT ET Streets
'90 Eagle Talon AWD, no rust thru 9 winters
'99 Camaro SS, red, 6-spd, T-tops, Mcleod clutch, Pro 5.0 shifter, MAF processor, Direct Flow airlid, K&N filter, next mod: 4.10 rear gears
313.7Hp & 320.6ft-lbf, ET 13.55sec @ 105.1mph

 

are you setting it with the EST unplugged?

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ICON Motorsports
1st & 3rd
MM Black Diamond 538 F&AM

 

Just a thought. How did you line up the sprockets? It's been awhile but IIRC, if the crank gear dot is at 12 o'clock and the cam gear dot is at 6 o'clock, the #6 piston should be at TDC.

If both dots are at 12 o'clock, then the #1 is at TDC. What I'm getting at is you might have both dots facing each other (6 and 12) but referenced it off #1 when it should be #6. Confused?


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1989 IROC-Z, ZZ3 shortblock with some bolt-ons.
13.20 @ 108.69, 2.2 60'

 

Are you using a stock damper? if so, the stock timing mark is supposed to be pretty much right at the 12:00 position. If you're using some aftermarket timing cover with a bolt-on timing mark tab, it's going to be way off, because that mark is at about 1:30.

Also, of course, don't forget that the timing mark on the balancer isn't on the part of the balancer that's actually connected to the engine; it's on the part that's just dangling out there at the edge flopping around on the end of the blob of spooge inside the balancer. It's entirely possible that the inertia ring has slipped like they always do.

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

ede: yes, in order to set static timing, I unplug the EST wire.

IROCZZ3: for a SBC, the dot on the crank sprocket is at 12 oclock while the dot on the cam spocket is at 6 oclock. This is how you "line the dots up". I've been very careful to do this right.

RB83L69: The reason why I dont think that the outer ring of the damper has shifted, is because when I have the dots on the crank/cam sprockets lined up properly and I put the damper onto its keyway, the timing line on the damper lines up with the 0 mark on the timing tab thats welded to the timing cover.

The timing tab in located at about to 2 oclock position of the timing cover. Since my timing is near the 12 oclock position, the static timing is about 20 degrees advanced. This is where the engine runs best.

But why do I need 20 degrees static timing for the engine to run right? For 13 years the engine ran best at about 8 to 10 degrees advanced tining. Its only been since this last Summer that the static timing likes to be at 20 degrees.

 

I'd really like to see an answer to this as I had the exact same problem on my carbed 350. For my engine to run good and strong the mark was even further at about 11 o'clock. I checked everything, tha damper was not broken(as a matter of fact it was new) I unplugged everything while setting the timing and it was always soooo off...!!!

PLease someone who knows something about this post it, post anything that it might be...

 

Hmmmm.... 11:00 = 90° from 2:00.... wrong plug wire?

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"So many Mustangs, so little time..."
ICON Motorsports

 

Well, if the distributor gear was installed one tooth off in respect to the cam gear (the gear at the rear end of camshaft), would this result in this timing problem????

 

Where the distributor is installed in relation to the cam gear doesn't matter as long as you have the right order on the cap. As long as he has the timing light connected to the first plug wire he's getting the right reading. No matter what orientation your distributor is the first plug wire will ALWAYS(well, every other rotation) get spark as the balance mark passes somewhere around 12oclock.

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88 firebird formula
350 Vortec, Accel Pro-Ram MPFI
214int/224exh, .471int/.491exh
Edelbrock headers
T56 - SIX-speed
open 3.73's
3 inch Flowmaster catback
I love pissing those LS1's off

Old time with TBI - 13.9 @103mph, 2.6 60ft

My Formula

 

The tdc line on the balancer lining up with 0 on the tab indicates that everything is assembled correctly. What did you do to the engine between the last time you checked the timing and now? Did you buy a new light? Are you positive you are using it properly? Do you even know what the timing is now? You said about 20 degrees advanced, what is it for sure?

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82 z28 350cid, vortec heads, comp 262h cam, Holley 600cfm carb, 2in twice pipes, MSD ignition, turbo 350 trans, 3.73 posi, manly b&m megashifter

 

If, for some reason you are getting no electronic advance to the distributor, it will WANT to be massively advainced on it's initial setting.

Plug the timing wire back in and hit the balacer with the timing light again. Assumning it was at 12 o'clock before it will now be way over at 11 o'clock since the ECM throws in about 10 more degrees of advance over the initial setting even at idle. If it hasn't moved, then you're not getting any advance to the distributor from the ECM.

Also..... if your ECM is trowing a "check engine" code for whatever reason it will go into "limp home" mode and give the distributor a really weak timing curve. Jacking the initial advance way up will help run the engine better (for power) but could cause something similar to what you describe.

last comment: If the #1 piston is at TDC at the same time the line on the balancer is pointing at TDC then you have the balancer, timing chain and distributor installed correctly, period. I also assume you're smart enough to put the timing light's pickup on the correct #1 plug wire (driver's side, front most wire) so let's rule that out. That leaves you with problems I listed above.

 

I have figure out that being off one tooth would not cause my problem.

I have always used the same timing light for the last 20 years. And I know that it is running off the #1 terminal on the distributor cap.

I can't tell what the exact static timing is because the balancer mark is way off from the timing tab. Like I said above, I'm about at 20 degrees advanced, if not a little more.

Now I'm thinking along the lines that Damon has suggested. Not enough ECM timing. I'll look into this Damon, good idea. BTW, I am burning my own eproms, but I have not done anything with the timing, only fuel.

Last Friday nite at Norwalk, the car ran 13.18, 13.16 and 13.14 sec (98-99mph) with the 4 degree keyway being used. The static timing was at the 20 degree stuff. In the last 2 evenings, I have re-installed the crank sprocket using the 0 degree keyway in hopes of getting back to 107mph trap speed and a 12 second time slip.

I may also have a miss, but may be confusing this with the way the engine runs now because I dont have the proper static timing dialed in.

Tonight is the last night for test & tune at Norwalk. I'm really fustrated, I wanting to get a 12 second ET this year. Now it wont happen. I think that I should just shoot my car!