I got a 92 305 tbi, 5 speed lo3 the **** version of the cheapset Gm motor gosh Dang why is Gm so Damn cheap i got left behind by 99 Prelude V tech 1.8 which had only a muffler and K&N plus tornado crap i know his car, he smoked me by 2 car lengths its emberassing, my friend got bit on his 85 z28 by a newer Eclipse whick were Stock, Damn Ford Start buildin their mustangs the Fox Style better then 3rd generation or Japs know how to manage 1.8 powerpant V tech into kick *** engine, why 1.8 V tech is better built and manged then 5.0 Tbi lo3? Damn Gm ****Eers are cheap, i am disspointed, but don't get me wrong though once u Invest 10k into ur 3 rd Generation and Scrap the 305 lo3 put like 350 or 454 even better, U will rule the Qurter mile and plus u can pick on Vipers too, otherwise stock u cannot challenge no one, once u try it u will be embarssed or ur car will sit in the shop, because drivetrain sucks too, each time u challenge somebody ur clutch nearly bursts in flames But i still love my Camaro, and i am savin up more money to get her all fixed up, for now i am not challenging no one, no more its cannot be raced because i know somthin will break, i have to go easy and drive her normal until i get a better motor and drivetrain+better rearend

 

What do you expect for a 3500lb car with only 150HP VS a 2000lb car with 200HP.

Especially when your comparing a bone stock 20 year old car to a 5 year old with mods.

 

technology to start with. you need to race a 1990 honda to compare it fairly. beside, you bought a 305tbi engine. that thing is so far from a performance engine it's not funny. with some mods they are acceptable, but in stock form they aren't something to go racing with.

 

Third Generation Camaros weren't the fastest cars built. Most pickup trucks, minivans and sedans will put an L03 out of its misery. If you want power, get a different car, or put in a crate motor

 

I have a to agree. My 305 carb engine in my 82 TA only puts out around 180ish HP. I'm in the process of rebuilding my carb, installing Edelbrock heads, cams and lifters, all new pulleys etc...

Just rebuild the engine and start replacing stuff. I know people will say just buy a 350 but a 305 is already terrible on fuel economy, going to a 350 is even worse.

 

I am 100% agree with u bro

 

Sorry guys there has NOT been a single honda ,minivan,mustang or any vehicle yet that has put this tbi down, albeit my car isn`t stock and my engine is FAR from tired.I know some say tbi isn`t worth modding but take a look at the tbi boards and find out what some of those guys are running before you start talking smack.Hey chin go hang out in the tbi boards and you`ll get all the help you need.

 

TBI can be modified to be a pretty good performer but in its stock form its far from being performance orientated.

 

A newer express or suburban with either a 350 vortec or 5.3 would get away too.

Learn how to burn proms, change your cam, port up some good heads, go to a full exhaust system, maybe do a cheap rebuild and you will get into the low 14s pretty easy. Then for more add some spray. Dewey316 has a great combination for a L03. Then again I have had 5 different 305 combinations and 2 350 builds that have all done well. The most recent 312 (.040 over 305) has run a 15.6 @ 93 MPH in a FULLSIZE VAN with a 3.73 gear and a 2,000 rpm stall.

You could easily switch to some ported heads, LT1 camshaft, headers, full exhaust, open element or dual snorkel, Edelbrock TBI or Holley Projection Intake, and do a computer tune. That would get you to the 240-260ish FWHP area with gobs of torque and good mileage. You could drop into the mid-low 14s IF you go to a 3.23-3.42:1 gear and a 2,000 rpm stall. At that point doing the work yourself you have maybe $1K into it. $1,500 if you rebuild the shortblock. Another $600-800 will do the transmission as well.

 

WTF are you crying about, I have a stock 4 banger? Talk about GM being cheap

 

Ha ha! Well what the hell did you buy the car for? Look, you show me one Honda that can spend a $1000 and build 400hp. The cars werent built for a fast top end. They were made for those of us that love the low end-put your *** in the seat torque.

 

I feel your pain!
I bought my 86 TA brand new. The car looked great. The TPI motor looked great(and is still one of the better looking motors IMO). The car was slow!!!!!!! I ran up against a guy in a suburban and could not pull on him. Now that's embarrising. Shortly after that I put a Nitrous kit on the motor, then exhaust, new 350 ci motor, ported the heads, changed the cam, changed the intake, installed a 383, changed intakes cam and heads on the 383, blew up the 383, then installed a 406 and that's where it stands today.
Bottom line, you will have to spend some money to make your car faster. If you want to go really fast, you will need to spend alot!

www.geocities.com/dzperf

 

Heh heh. 70-ish more horsepower and 500 pounds lighter, and you're surprised?

My stockish 305 (at the time) TPI Firebird did a 14.4 at the drag strip. My old Sentra with header, ECU, exhaust, K&N did a 14.5. 210 whp vs 140 whp but 3300 pounds vs 2500.

I remember racing somebody in an IROC when I got my first Sentra 10 years ago and being neck-and-neck with him. I thought it was a big accomplishment 'til I started learning more about F Bodies and the different engine combinations.

Pat

 

GM pretty much made their performance cars which were the L98 and the Lb9. Then they made their regular low performance 5.0's which were the Lg4, and the Lo3. What do you expect from a 305 carbed car that weighed around 3300 lbs, and only made 145-165 hp at the flywheel!. Same deal with the L03 tbi, stock it really has no power[a tad more than the Lg4] Not much to make a difference. I always thought of them as the economic versions of the Camaros. If your looking for good performance in a third gen Id stay away from the l03/Lg4. I built up a 305 a few years back and I have to say those extra 45 Cubes are missed. The L98 cars are great to build beacuse stock they run in the mid 14's, so with just bolt ons you can hit low to mid 13's. A street car that hits 13's is a pretty quick street car. I like the Lb9 cars as well but there is really no replacement for displacement. Back in the 80's emissions were a huge thing as well. So Gm had to keep that in mind. So technology has come along way....Just look at how each engine was an upgrade L98/LT1/LS1. The Ls1 made 325 hp and still had clean emmisions. Back in the 80s that would not have been the case. Thats why the L98s of the 80s had 225-245. Still got the big torque numbers though! Not to say that you cant make the Lg4 and L03 fast. It just takes more cash.

 

Ahh from Pueblo I see. The reason you got beat and your friend too is because your cars are slow. I can only think of 1 street driven Turbo Eclipse which happens to hang out around the north side of town thats fast. I ran against him with my truck out at PMI and he ran 1 second faster then me. All the rest are fart can piles of crap.

So does your friend happen to have a silver paint job with red stripes?

 

I ran your paragraph through an ebonics translator. I didn't notice much difference...




I got uh 92 305 tbi, 5 speed lo3 da **** version o' da cheapset Gm motor gosh Dang why iz Gm so Damn cheap ah got left behind by 99 Prelude V tech 1.8 which had only uh muffler an' K&N plus tornado crap ah know his `64, he smoked me by 2 `64 lengths its emberassing, muh ma ****in ***** got bit on his 85 z28 by uh newer Eclipse whick wuz Stock, Damn Ford Start buildin they mustangs da Fox Style bettah then 3rd generation or Japs know how ta manage 1.8 powerpant V tech into smoke *** engine, why 1.8 V tech iz bettah built an' manged then 5.0 Tbi lo3? Damn Gm ****Eers iz cheap, ah be disspointed, but don' git me wrong though once u Invest 10k into ur 3 rd Generation an' Scrap da 305 lo3 put like 350 or 454 even bettah, U will rule da Qurter mile an' plus u can pick on Vipers too, otherwise stock u cannot challenge nahh one, once u try it u will be embarssed or ur `64 will sit in da shop, cuz drivetrain wacks too, each tyme u challenge somebody ur clutch nearly bursts in flames But ah still love muh ma ****in Camaro, an' ah be savin up mo' money ta git her all fixed up, fo' now ah be not challenging nahh one, nahh mo' its cannot be raced cuz ah know somthin will break, ah gots ta jet easy an' cruize her normal until ah git uh bettah motor an' drivetrain+better rearend

 

sorry guys..if you want an early thirdgen to move out its own way, you'll have to put "some" money into it.

 

Aw, keep your chin up pal. (sorry couldn't resist)
In fact you are right. It's one of the main reasons that this board is full of people. The regular third gens are slow but if you look at the car with it's wide&low profile, cornering, WS6, disc brakes, etc it is a perfect sports car for cheap. All you add is power. Something that is easy to fix. Try changing a front-wheel drive car to rear wheel drive. It is the perfect choice for my sleeper because everyone knows third gens are slow.
If you see a '69 Camaro on the street you know it's fast.
No fun there. Nobody will race you.
Just keep the faith, because it's just a matter of time until those guys run into one of "us" ...and we'll take their money.

 

Or you mean "take some smog and CC BS off". It's not too hard to get an LO3 moving it just needs some motivation.

 

If it makes ya feel any better, before I got the Camaro I drove my wife's beat up '90 SAAB 900, that's the 2.0L engine WITHOUT the turbo .. and that car is HEAVY, I bet it has to weigh close to what the Camaro's weigh.

Well at a stop light, I had a sixth sense feeling that I should crank it up, I reved the damn thing like crazy (5 speed tranny), noticed a car trying to keep up with me, well I kicked his lil'***, and then I had to turn right o nthe next street, so I slowed down.. and it wasn't until then that he could slowly pass me.

What did he have ? A damn Honda Civic, much newer than my wife's old SAAB, and the damn thing had that big muffler, maybe even more underneath the hood I don't know.

He got beat by an 'ol SAAB with 150,000 miles on it.


Which reminds me, I need to repair her car, it broke down, which gave me an excuse to buy the Camaro hehehe

 

If we would put as much money into our engines alone, as the riceburner fanatics do, we wouldn't be on this forum. I would be driving the LeMans and Nurnburg over and over again in my Camaro, and have enough time to stop at a hotel or two.

Lot of these guys don't know anything about their riceburners besides the "I can read and I will now spell out the specs for you i.e. Apex, turboKIT, super iridium sparkplugs which give ya 30 more horsies, cold air intake KIT, Stage 3 ***** KIT, Stage 4 nitrous KIT.

They spend at least 4,000 dollars, four f***** grand on just part of the engine, by the time they're done the engine has cost them anywhere between 12 and 20 grand.


Now last time I checked, those 632 racing engines from Summit or Jegs, came with what ... over 800 horsies ? And hmm what .. a price tag of 17 grand ?

 

If we all spent as much on our 3rd gens as them kids do on their hondas we would all be driving 8sec cars to work lol

 

And that's 8 sec in reverse

 

Eclipse/DSM have AWD + Turbo models from factory. AWD will beat you off the line almost always. Sorry, it's ugly truth.

Fox Body cars weight 500lbs+ less "All built" then our cars do, and I wiegh more than my honda accord does.

Vipers are not THAT fast stock, there are plenty of them here in Kansas City, KS. Faster than stock 3rd gen, yes, but not faster than some stock Eclipses.

You might want to check that out, it might be dangerous

Everyone loves their 3rd gen, thats why we still have them. We all buy them (well, the smart ones) knowing you dont get a fast car off a used car lot. I had to drive my V6 around for 100k before I dropped the 310 powerhouse in it, shaved off 200 million pounds and primered it. The primer is the key to sucess! lol!

Also, street racing is illegal and dangerous, keep it on the track...sorry, i had to add that.

 

let's hear it for primered 3rd gens that look like **** but can fly, woohoo

 

I started with an LO3 and I have gotten pretty fast. I did not run it at a track but I can beat a lot of imports with fart cans around denver.
I had my swirl ports done at napa, headers, chip, 3.23 gears, open exhaust and brand new ignition parts and man did that wake up this silly car.
Now I can really mess around with imports and I am yet to get beat by a mustang. (Really weird if you ask me).
So, just spend some moeny on your car, and if you are really pissed off get the NOS kit for 500 bucks and you will be ripping those cars a new a-hole really quick!
Than when the LO3 blows up, get LO5! (350 version).

Its silly how these people would take 21st century car and race it agains a 20th century car. Than in the end they loose too. So in my view Firebirds and Camaros still kick ***. Just think about it.
So next time you race somebody tell them that you paid 500 bucks for your car, and its still as fast as their 16000 car!
It works even better if you win!!!
Seriously. RESPECT.

 

Oh yea. If you really just wanna go fast and dont care much about the creature comforts. Than strip away everything that you don't need. Than all of a sudden you are faster!!!!

It takes a lot of stripping. Back seat, AC, etc. take it out and you will gain at least 10horses, and you will be lighter.

Check out the threads around here.


NOS and weight reduction and you are kicking ***!

 

i think I read on a mustang board that for every 100 lbs you loose is the equivalent to gaining 10 horsepower

 

.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 89IrocZ350TPI
[B]It takes a lot of stripping. Back seat, AC, etc. take it out and you will gain at least 10horses, and you will be lighter.



Ligher=faster

 

Faster = No more V-tech smoking you

 

Lighten the internal engine parts, such as connecting rods (but make sure they're capable of handle enough rpm and horsepower), get an aluminum driveshaft, lighter flywheel, heck get it all balanced too.

 

the engine bay has enough room to fit any motor you want in there, maybe a zz573 aluminum big block is what you need.

 

How is GM cheap? Seems like you cheaped out by not getting the performance model.

 

who needs 400hp when you weigh a 1000lbs less.
something to think about

 

if a stock viper is losing to a stock eclipse there is something wrong.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by 89IrocZ350TPI
[B]less weight doesn't give you more horsepower

 

I think he ment disconecting the AC would put a little more power down to the wheels

 

well, lets just all sell our camaros then.

 

You are correct, less weight has nothing to do with horsepower. But if you are lighter than your horses are "worth" more! So 100lbs is "equivalent" to 10hp. Silly! (but I know where the argument is coming from and the smiley gives it away).

 

what does weighing less have to do with selling your car?
so if a car weighs less that means sell it?
I honestly don't understand what your trying to get at here

 

Taking AC out will take about 40 or so pounds (not totally sure) off your car. That is really good concidering that you have T-tops. If you have T-tops you DO NOT NEED AC. If its a Vert even better. But the hard tops... oh well... can't please everyone!
If you take out the AC, back seat, all the unecessary little things (spare , carpet padding) than you will gain some power.
Here is a recepie for a successfull LO3

New heads, anything is better than what they come with.
Headers
Open up the exhaust
Fuel pump
Tune up
NOS
Fiberglass body parts.
Take off your metal, and slap on one piece fiberglass front. Than you can work on it so easy. Just pull the whole thing up. (YES GENTLEMAN just pull the WHOLE FRONT UP) It only weighs around 20-30lbs.
Than you can work on it all you want.
Get the light hatch ( I forgot what the glass is, i think hexan...) And your LO3 will put out some serious hurt on anyone who dares mess with it.

 

just wondering how much more a vert weighs then a coupe?
I honest have never seen a weight for the coupe

 

I thought you were talking about how hondas weigh a 1000 less. If you were talking about losing a 1000 lbs on our cars, that would cost slightly more than it would to build 400hp.

 

think I understand
my brain is fried.
new job and still getting used to it and using it's ancient systems

 

Your brain is fried? I just got back from Amsterdam and I dont remember much. Hehe

 

Fried not baked!

haha i just had to say that...

 

ROTFLMAO @ stage "kits".

**** isn't that the truth.

 

I just noticed something.

ChinUnit22, you have a 92 !! You should realize what that means. Engine is one thing, but remember what your 92 is.


S T I F F E R !


Someone posted a while back on this forum that sometime in 91 and through 92, the F-body's got stiffer, extra spot welds or sealer or something making the cars a little bit stiffer.

 

my firebird v6 beat myfreinds 88 prelude. and ya those 98-99 preludes are very fast i know a guy with a 98 with quiet exhuast andcol air intake and its a very quick car but my 350 owns its *** 305's are very slow ive noticed i drove an 83 trans am with a 305 and it was pretty damn slow. they shouldnt have put anything other then 350+ into 3rd gens or all camaros for that matter when i had my first v6 i knew nothing about camaros and i was expecting this insanely fast car but it wasnt and it was pretty embarresing have guys in ugly old *** imports wanting to race me but my car is slower then theirs