I was about to say... Vipers are 500 RWHP!

 

not stock.

 

but they do have 510fwhp at least

 

 

http://www.drivesrt.com/en/dodge/viper_coupe/index.html

They need more horsepower though. ZO6 is now faster

 

$1000 will get you 400 horsepower in an LO3?

 

Here comes the flame war. You can get DARN CLOSE! I have a 305 w 300 RWHP and TBI . Details in Signature.

Here is a build I would like to see done. Get a pair of non swirl port 305 HO heads ( I like 601s), REALLY port them up (250 Intake, 170 Exhaust), you can keep the 1.84 & 1.50 valves (Bigger Exhaust better than bigger intake). A 1.94" intake and 1.6" exhaust would work wonders. Cut the guides down and go with a good spring combo to make room for a GOOD ROLLER CAM, (not necessarily the biggest) such as a HR276-H14 grind, a good set of 1 7/8 x 3 headers, 3" exhausts, cut-outs, Holley Projection Intake Manifold, a 454 TBI unit with 454 injectors in it it will flow enough fuel for 322 FWHP @ 12 psi. If you go to approximately 20 PSI that is enough to make 415 FWHP easily. 305 Shortblocks are easy to beef-up for this power level. The stock crank will take 400 HP and 6,500 RPM all day. Stud the Mains and Rods. I would step up to a X, O or late LT1 350 connecting rod, the last being plentiful and good for 450 FWHP. Go with some Hypereutetic 305 pistons in your oversize and Flattop. Have the rotating assembly balanced. As far as block prep, I use a street fill, MAIN STUDS, align bore, overbored, etc.

You will need lots of tuning with this setup on the EPROM.

That will get you darn close to your 400 FWHP goal and stay within budget restraints. With a much milder L82 cam I made about 370 FWHP with a very similar setup.

For GRINS, DD2000.

RPM-------HP------TQ
2,000-----125-----327
2,500-----163-----342
3,000-----204-----357
3,500-----251-----376
4,000-----297-----390
4,500-----340-----397
5,000-----377-----396
5,500-----399-----381
6,000-----408-----357
6,500-----403-----326

The Head Flow numbers are used from my 081s I just ported for my project. The compression is 10:1 with 1.84 & 1.50 valves, through open headers or cutouts. These numbers make sense, since my cam is non roller and somewhat smaller. They are about 40 FWHP higher than mine.

Note that on my actual Dyno I was using CHEAP 1 5/8 X 3 headers, 2 1/4" pipes and cut-outs as well as a STOCK 1992 TBI Van Air Cleaner and Intake Ducts (Makes a hard L above the condensor). Without those restrictions, I feel mine still had power to be tapped. I was getting almost 3 in/hg in the intake per my datalogs.

Edit- If you want the cheap way, build it to take 450 FWHP w/ forged pistons, make 275 FWHP with the heads and cam choice, then spray the other 125.

 

Not from me.

Not long ago, one of the auto rags got 400 fwhp from a Ford 302. The keys to the build included the usual ones: great exhaust, bigger cam.... but the most important element was great flowing heads. IIRC they used AFRs.

So if 400+ fwhp can be done on a 302 Ford, it can also be done in a 305 Chevy.

What makes the "400 hp for less than $1000" claim possible, and therefore different from the auto rag build, is the use of ported factory castings. If you had to buy AFRs to do the job, the build would be a lot more than $1000.

 

you will not beat an AWD eclipse/DSM off the line, sorry. If the DSM has a turbo as well, then he has the jump and will keep it to the end of the 1/4. Sorry, try racing one and then get back to me about youre theory of "cant beat a viper". NOT THAT FAST. Plenty of other cars/combo faster than vipers.

 

All this crap about Vipers and turbo Eclipses and Fords has nothing to do with why these cars are slow.

They are slow because they are underpowered and heavy, as delivered from the factory.

They are underpowered because the state of the art at the time did not allow simultaneously better power than they have, sufficient gas mileage to meet the legal requirements in effect at the time, and emissions low enough to meet those legal requirements. TPI being the "best" FI system GM had available at the time, and as we all know how much of a limit that is, pretty much explains the whole "underpowered" thing even for the top-of-the-line drive trains. And it's mostly downhill from there.

They are heavy because the state of the art in effect at the time did not allow any lighter structure that would also give the ride and handling characteristics that they were designed to have. Look at how crappy a Mustang of the same vintage rides and handles, to get an idea of the penalty in those areas when the necessary compromises to get to their lower weight have been made.

Whether you can get our cars faster, is not the point. Whether something else is faster than something else yet again, is also not the point. It is all drivel and monkey-spank.

Why they are slow in the first place, IS the point.

Why the original poster thinks the B4C cars are faster than others, eludes me. They are no different in that respect from other TPI cars. I.e. heavy and underpowered even by the standards of their era; by 1991, TPI had already been hopelessly outclassed by practically everything else, and the competition was 300 to 1500 lbs lighter.

 

by 1991, TPI had already been hopelessly outclassed by practically everything else, and the competition was 300 to 1500 lbs lighter. [/B][/QUOTE]

I disagree, The 90-92 speed density L98 cars were capeable of running 14.2-14.4 stock. These cars put out 245 hp and 345 lb ft of torque stock. The Mustangs were only making 225/300. Yes they were heavier than the Mustangs by 200 lbs which made it competitive, and weighed about the same as the Firebirds. As far as handling goes the Camaro and Firebird were awesome,and would out handle most of the competition. What is the competition you are comparing these TPI cars to? I think their numbers are impressive for the time and even now. Low 14's stock for the 350's isnt bad at all

 

I guess some people are just easily impressed. Myself, I'm failing to be impressed here; considering that you can beat one of those things with any number of mama's grocery carts these days. And don't forget, the more nearly modern equivalent of that, the LS1 cars, are about a full second faster, even though they are even heavier. A second might not sound like much; but at 100 miles an hour, that's 140 to 150 feet; 10 car lengths. TPI loses so bad it doesn't even look like a race.

And, if TPI is so great, then explain why a 350 with TPI does 240 HP or so depending on year and chassis, but a truck TBI with garbage heads and TBI and a peanut cam or less, does 210.

IMO all of these cars are underpowered from the factory by modern standards. Some are easier to modify than others (the carb versions particularly, by the nature of carb intake systems in general). TPI has got to be the hardest system to modify that there has ever been, unless you count throwing it in the trash and starting over with some other intake system as "modifying" it. And before somebody tries to bring them up, the MiniRam, HSR, etc. aren't "modifications"; they're COMPLETE REPLACEMENTS that have nothing in common with TPI except that they're also forms of port injection. You don't "modify" TPI with those, rather you throw the TPI in the trash, and put on something else that doesn't rely on TPI's 3600 RPM tuning.

TPI partisanship and apologizing are laughable. While it was the best GM could do at the time it was introduced, technology marched rapidly on and bypassed it within a couple of years; and it most certainly doesn't stand up to more modern competititon.

Meanwhile, these cars are slow because they're underpowered and overweight, compared to faster cars. Duh.

 

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sofakingdom
[B]I guess some people are just easily impressed.

First off, You can't compare an Ls1 to a stock TPI car. The technology is far more advanced. You are right there is about a full second difference between the two 10-12 car lengths. TPI cars can still hold their own today. I ran 13.5 with just bolt-ons,beat my friends 02 GT,and beat a few Lt1's. If I was serious about racing I would switch out the TPI and go with a Stealth Ram or something. I just disagree with the fact that you think TPI is a complete joke. As I said before 14.2-14.4 stock is a decent street car. The reason they have low hp ratings is beacuse it was the best GM could do at the time. Emissions at the time were alot more strict than they are today. I do agree that if you are building a car for the strip, the smart way to go would be to ditch the tpi. For the streets a bolt on TPI works for me.

 

I used to have a Honda (I believe you call them Acura's?) Integra Type R, which is a highly tuned Jap box sold straight out the UK dealers in the late nineties. It pumped out 190bhp through it's front wheels and weighed about the same as a third gen's door. 1/4 mile in about 14 secs.

It was hilarious thrashing the **** of it to nearly 9000rpm, and it handled like a racecar. Amusingly when driven hard the 1.8 litre engine would still only do about 20mpg, the same as my IROC.

That said, I prefer my IROC as it's such a rare sight over here, and in my eyes a much more beautiful shape.

OK, so the build quality is a disgrace, but you American's don't worry about corners anyway. With our roads, and our weather I'd be frickin nuts to start racing people.

I got it's **** out accidentally the other day on a wet roundabout without even trying.

Anyway, where was I? aaaah yes, Honda's.... Forget about 'em. They have no soul.

 

the latest dyno numbers i've seen comes from wheel 2 wheel powertrain. they were 447@5900.

as for the camaro, i can't believe this has went this long. if you buy the base model V8, what do you expect. like anything with mods it will go faster, but with it being stock or near stock what reason would you have to believe it would be fast. in stock form i'd rather have the 96' newer with a L36 over a L03.

 

This thread has no excuse for living. High response count notwithstanding.

If you want to bench race, BS, shoot the bull, etc., do it someplace else.