Supposedly the Silicon-Aluminum bearings are more forgiving of poorly finished journals.

 

hmm....
Then I may just get the summit, dual metal, 1/2 groove ones...

 

Summit brand is now selling those. I recently bought a pair to try out on my engine.

 

Who is doing your machining?

 

Rod at D&W. Apeiron mentioned that place.

 

I've got a better guy if you need something.

 

Are you holding out on me?

 

just FYI: the summit brand bearings are made by King Bearings.

 

It all depends what your idea of "better" is.

 

I only asked because he was telling you that 416 heads are no good. I don't want to call him an idiot, so I won't. But I don't think most machinists are experts on the porting of 305 heads.

Anyway, your 416s will make you smile from ear to ear

 

got my ohio rods yesterday, $253 to me when the smoke cleared.... Since the machine shop told me it'd be $150 to resize my stock rods, then $90 for the arp bolts (=$240), I figured i'd just get new rods.....

when I dropped them off there, so he could press fit the pistons on the rods, he mentioned that sometimes they have to re-size aftermarket rods too! WTF??? I thought I was only spending $13 more for the aftermarket rods now....? is this normal/common?

he also had to align hone the block, extra $140 or so.... geez, this is getting expensive...

also, I was going to use summit to order .010 undersized bearings, but he mentioned since he ground the crank "mid", and that i'd want .0023 clearance, and that I may want to buy the bearings from him, so he could use half a .010 undersize set, and half .011 undersized, to try and get the perfect clearance....? (ie, one bearing of one size, and the other bearing a tiny bit smaller, on the same rod/main area, to get the right clearance...)
I've never heard of that before (boy, that saying is getting old already...), how crucial is it to get the PERFECT clearance there?
I guess I could just take it home, mock it up with the summit bearings and a plasti gauge, then.....be stuck with those bearings anyway...

also dropped off my bare 416 castings for hot tank, bead blast, mag, etc. Then i'll port and bring them back for final assembly.

Any thoughts/comments/suggestions?

 

I suppose poor quality rods could need resizing if they weren't manufactured right, part of the whole "you get what you pay for" thing.

Combining bearings sets to get tolerances within .0005" isn't all that uncommon, but since he's align honing the block and grinding the crank at the same time it seems like he should be able to control the sizes pretty well.

By the way, you'd be a lot better off with a bore gauge and a set of mics instead of relying on plastigauge.

 

set of mics, like a 0-1" 1-2" 2-3 micrometer? accurate to .0001" right?
bore gauge is like a inside micrometer, meant for round bores eh?

buddy said that i'd use a plastigauge (i'm not sure what that is exactly, i'll look it up now..) to check the clearance in the bearings.... something along the lines of putting the bearings in a rod, and putting the rod on the crank, torquing it up (with the plastigauge squished somewhere inbetween), then unbolting it, and measuring the thickness of the plastigauge...
Almost like using it as a more accurate feeler gauge.
Could I use a bore micrometer / micrometer set to do the same thing?


aha:
http://www.plastigauge.co.uk/howitworks.htm

 

to check bearing clearances you'll need a 2-3" mic. that is accurate to a .0001" and a dial bore gauge. It will run you around $250 for good quality pieces. I use Starret mics and Mitutoyo bore gauges.

Torque the beaing caps on the block with the beaings and no crank. Measure the main journals on the crank and set the dial bore gauge to zero off of that. Then use the dial bore gauge to measure the inside diameter of the bearings in the saddles. Do the same thing with the rods. Make sure to keep everything nice and clean!!!

 

ooohhhh, ok, I get it....

ah, those sound like mcmaster carr parts there, I recognize that...

well, for now, I think i'll have to cheap out on those good quality measuring tools, and plastigauge it... Next build, when I have a better paying job, i'll do it all up right....this is my learning experience.

 

You can use plastigauge to verify your clearance, but it's not as accurate as measuring directly.

A bore gauge isn't quite like an inside micrometer, it's actually much easier to use.

High-quality brand-name precision measuring tools are expensive, like Dialed_In's Starrets and Mitutoyos. For casual non-professional use, you can pick up imported tools for surprisingly little.

I have a set of Chinese Mitutoyo knock-off micrometers that I picked up off eBay. I've compared them to Fowlers, Starrets, Mitutoyos, and whatever else I could get my hands on, and they're accurate enough for my occasional needs.

If I was doing this kind of work every day though, I'd get the real thing.

 

For what you're doing it may be beneficial to search ebay for used pieces. Beware of abused tools though. You can calibrate a mic with a standard (which the better ones come with) yourself, but a used bore gauge you may want to send out to get calibrated. Just an idea, may be able to save a couple bucks.

 

ok, just giving an update here, went by and picked up my stuff today.

I'm out $1731 to my machine shop (yikes!). But he was nice enough to give me some rod bolt boots and plastigauge

Here's a few pics if anyone is interested:
link

-the block was decked .010"
-align honed
-bored .030", using speed pro H345s
-engine tech moly rings
-heads were cut for 1.94 valves, hot tanked, bead blasted, milled a few thou to be leveled.

I'll bolt the heads on the block, scribe the bore, then port the snot out of 'em now. Unfortunately my winter car blew the timing belt, so i'm a little side tracked for a few days now.
I think i'll start a new thread with any questions related to the build now.
Thanks!

 

just got off the phone with my machinist, he cc'd a chamber of mine, since I couldn't seem to get a very accurate reading at home. He swore up and down that I'd never be able to get an extra cc out of those heads, "4cc's is a hell of a lot of metal to remove ya know".... looks like I got a cool 6ccs, just unshouding intake and exhaust, and polishing the chambers. (putting me at 64cc's for 416 heads)

I've also measured deck height at .015" (block was decked .010", and pistons are .020" deeper down... not sure how this worked out). Puts me at a cool 10.0:1 CR.
I still think i'll try to get my 416 heads flowed.

looks like 8/8 of my intake valves, that I hand back cut, and chamfered the face of, are too worn on the stems to be of use... damn, I calipered them, and they seemed ok, but I guess that's why I'd need a micrometer... That's $64 down now. And 3 exhausts are bad, but I have a schwack of those...

 

wish i had time to reply to everyone here.
last post about valves first,full set of stainless 1 pc. valves/no name,$125 u.s.
10:1 compresion with iron heads;no problem on 92 octane with a 230* @ .050 cam
why not clevite p series bearings????? awesome bearings,and not much $.
for all the time and $$$$ you will have in those heads you could have a new set of RHS heads with thick decks and all the goodies?you do have screw in studs don't you?
$1735 for a non assembled short block?whew!is that u.s.d?
well,let us know how it turns out man,i am very familiar with machine shop sticker shock!
be patient,do it right,and keep things operating room clean when those bearings are exposed!
best of luck with the build!
Eric B

 

oh yea, all CA dollars. the $1700 included pistons and rings though, and decking and align honing, basically the works.

machine shop has valves for $8 per I think, cheapy factory replacements i'm guessing. I might try and grab them and backcut them myself, i'd rather not wait and get ones in the mail from USA, pay duty etc. I bought the summit bearings already, very cheap, and the bimetal is supposed to be pretty good.

i've smoothed the eyebrows on the pistons (removed sharp edges), polished the chambers, and i'm cutting back the ground strap on my plugs. It shouldn't detonate at all on 91 octane, with full on timing.

 

What Ignition setup are you going to run. And school me about cutting back the ground strap on the plugs.

 

stock ignition basically. crane 96001 timing can.

I've filed back the ground strap until the end of it is about at the center of the center electrode (or you can go even further back, until the edge of the ground strap is just barely out far enough to be aligned with the outer edge of the center electrode).

supposed to be good for flame travel, etc. all the good effects, just small. try a search on the forum for a more descriptive...description...