Well i just got 3 cheques this week so im in a hurry to blow all the money!

Ive been hurting for cash for a while and have made 0 progress on my engine build in the last 6 months so i think its about time to dump some cash on that motor! Heres what i was thinking of ordering...

Mfg Name-------Mfg Part#-----Description
AFR-------------1034---------195s 68cc straight plug heads
Comp Cams------858-16-------Magnum Hydraulic Lifters
Comp Cams------7372-16------Magnum Pushrods, 5/16 std length
Comp Cams------1412-16------Magnum rockers 3/8 stud 1.52 Ratio
Edelbrock --------7501---------RPM Air Gap Intake
Holley-----------12-32711-----110gph Fuel Pump
Holley-----------0-80770------770cfm Street Avenger Carb w/ elec choke
Moroso----------22145--------Oil Pump, w/ pickup for 7.5" pan
Mr Gasket--------5991--------Ultraseal Gaskets, Complete engine kit

All this going on a rebuilt 350 shortblock, -10cc pistons and a comp xe268 cam.


Also theirs going to be all the small nickle and dime crap thats going to add up pretty fast...



So if theirs anything you would change or have any suggestions please chime in, i dont want to order something thats not going to work well or at all!!!

 

anyone??...

 

get a bigger holley pump, ditch the street avenger crap, put on a holley double pumper for maximum HP. go bigger on the cam, or pick cheaper heads since you won't use them to their full potential. Also purchase a cam and lifter kit from jegs as that'll be cheaper than buying each seperate. I'd use flat top pistons as well instead of dished pistons.

 

Alright, cool thanks.


As i already have the pistons and cam i think ill just keep them for now and swap them out later on, and how is this thing going to chug more than 110gph? Thats alot of gas! lol


What heads would be a good choice then?
Im going to need something in the mid 60cc chambers to get decent compression and would like to stay with aluminum. I also dont want to buy a set of heads and be kicking myself in the **** later on because for $200 more i could have got something alot better!

 

Order a pushrod length checker instead of the actual pushrods.

 

the AFR heads are nice, but to really "use" them for what they are you need more cam, which leads to more gear, which leads to more stall. i'm just saying that vortec heads use the XE274 cam to utilize them to their full potential and they're a grand cheaper

 

With 68cc heads and -10 cc dish pistons your cr will be a low 8.8:1.
If you were to order your heads milled to 58cc your cr would be a nice 9.85:1
Are you planning on using these heads on a 383 or 400 in the furture?

 

you're really hell bent on those AFR heads eh? well your call...

this going to be a big summit order?
if so, and I remember you being in the boonies where those nickel and dime bits are more like quarter and dollars, plus they have to be ordered, 'cuz they may not be in stock up there, which takes longer etc etc. I'm finishing my build now, and I keep finding new little bits, that I wish I would have gotten cheaply from summit, and then I wouldn't have to wait an extra week for each thing to be ordered in locally, and delay my build. if it helps I can rattle off a few other parts that you may want to get on your order, so you don't have to scrounge and settle on what's in stock up there...

 

So i may as well cheap out and get some heavy large port vortecs which cost $1000us compared to $1300us for AFRs?? i think i would go with the AFRs...


I think i might grab a set of pistons though, maybe keep these dished ones for paperweights or something.


Fbird, yes i would like to have a head that i can drop on my next build and not be a bottleneck, which will hopefully be the blown 383 i wanted to do this winter

Sonix, im not sure yet if its going to be worth my while to order from summit or jegs. i think with the weight and value of the order the border and shipping fees are going to rape me!

 

definately, I just didn't think you had a source up there...?
Well, if you have to order in most things like that, as they aren't in stock, make sure to order everything you need, you'd hate to realize you forget to order something worth $5, which you'll have to wait 2 weeks to get, know what I mean? I'm itching to get mine put together, but I keep realizing, oh, I lost my oil pump driveshaft, well I better get a decent one, since it's only a few dollars, well that steel collared one isn't in stock, so I have to wait so they can order it in, then wait until the weekend so I can pick it up, that kills a week for me. Then I don't have cam bolts, lost them, well, might as well get ARP's, well those aren't in stock..... (get my drift?) It's going on 12+ business days on a camshaft!

The only reason i'd shy away from AFR's, was that I thought you had to wait 3-6 months to have yours made...? And $1300US for AFR, $500CA for vortecs, for me at least, so that's another reason. But hey, if the price difference is that small to you, and you don't have a wait time or anything, then get them for sure!

you should be able to get speed-pro flat top hypers for fairly cheap. stronger then those cast ones (if that's what you have).

 

Yes i do just have cheapo cast federal mogul slugs in there now, i imagine they wouldnt hold up too long but they didnt cost me anything!

Where did you pick up your vortecs, i went to gm and their telling me over 800 for EACH!!!

As for the AFRs im not sure if jegs had them in stock but mopac in edmonton had lots on the shelf for $1700.




Oh, i have been working on an excel spreadsheet for a few months now. so hopefully i will have every single little thing all ordered in one shot. i know what you mean, that would suck to wait a few weeks to order something you forgot only to find out theirs something else and so on...

 

Go with the AFRs.vortecs are great,but they have a cieling MUCH lower than the AFRs.I also say get the Forged flattops,if they aren't a need now they will be.I would however,save your money on the street avenger.They are just a dumbed down holley with a bigger price tag and a shiney finish.

 

Well i never have liked vacuume secondary carbs, but i guess i wanted to try and save a little bit of gas. But with this motor i dont think its really going to help anything other than being a PITA and loosing power.

How about a double pumper 4150? should do the trick?

 

Ok, well as much as i would like to have the AFR's i would also like to have this motor running sometime in the near future...


Any suggestions on a head i can use that will actually be worth the cost savings? At this point i just want the thing to make noise, ill worry about heads for my other motors later. So, any head out there thats going to save some big bucks and not loose alot of power? The AFRs leave alot of breathing room for this motor...


Those $250us vortecs on jegs site should do the trick, definately alot of cash savings but how do you guys think they will work on this motor? Also have a slight problem with the max lift, the site says " Special Note: Valve Springs - .475 Max Lift" so am i alright with swapping in my comp 981-16 springs that are matched to my cam (xe268 4.77/4.8" lift) or are thier other things that are going to bind? Or do you figure these things are going to kill this motor...?

 

www.sdpc200.com sells vortec heads machines already for .550 lift for $550 for the pair of heads, that is what i would buy and run on your motor. they will support 430hp so i wouldn't worry about them not running great on your motor. should be a low 12 or high 11 second motor if using the XE274 cam.

 

All the vortecs I ever got only had enough clearance for a .450" cam.
The springs are not the problem althou the stock vortec springs don;t have enough pressure. The valve guide boss needs to be machined shorter so the retainerbottom doesn't hit it. Shorten it about .200". A comp 981 spring will fit if your remove the inner damper. Outher wise you have to machne the inner spring eat diameter to clear the spring damper. A Isky 201278 cam with .450" lift will fit without machining. its 234@.050 and 106LSA and .450" lift. Its as good or better than a comp XE274

 

Thats not the good news i wanted to hear...

Damn, i wanted to use this cam, its brand new... Oh well, fork out for another cam i guess. But then if i do that why not just hog out my 416's and get a cam thats going to work with them.

 

Could you hook me up with a part number, i dont see any heads there that will take .480 or more lift for $550 a pair...

 

The cheapest assembeled aluminum heads on the market are the Edelbrock 64cc Performer Rpms (E60899) $489 each US or the Brodix IK180's ( BRO-1021004)
$1039 US /pair. TFS 23deg 195cc heads ( TFS-3042B002) $798/pr US

All are good heads. All will work fine with the intake and cam you have now.

The best vortec "ready to run package" for you is
Scoggin Dickey #SD8060ARPM @ $959.95 US
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2172...former-RPM.htm
Upgraded Heads, intake, bolts rockers gaskets, its all there.
Alota bang for the $$$'s

Use thin Felpro 1094 head gaskets for improved compression with your dished pistons. 9.82 comparred to 9.27

 

OK, well this has turnder into the 'save a few bucks, get alot less' kind of thing i was trying to avoid. I know its not really that bad of a deal with the intake and all the goodies but its still almost double the cost of the cheap vortecs and the only difference is a bit more lift...


How hard would it be to get those el-cheapo $250 vortecs to take a .48 lift?

 

comp cams makes a guide cutting tool, c-tire special order had it for $50, the arbor is needed, $20. Probably the same price as getting a machine shop do it for you, but you get to keep the tool for next time...
this will also thin the guides so you can use teflon valve seals.
you can use it in a mill, drill press, or i've heard in a hand drill, since the arbor guides it, super steady hands aren't really needed.

 

i guess that sounds like a decent plan, the $250 vortecs and the tool and i should have a cheap set of heads that hopefully wont kill my motor!

 

You're not looking at the total cost of the head swap. You're stuck on the I can get Vortec for $250 each and want that to be it (in you're deams) Actually you want AFRs for $250. Look at what you get in the SD package. Add up each of the components and machine work done for ya. It's a bolt on deal. it has the right parts. By the time you order **all** the components separatly and tools nessessary to do the job, you'll spend more. Shipping cost will kill you.

Vortecs will not hold you back. You can build a 11sec motor ($for less$) using worked over vortec heads. (the future) The only thing holding you back is yourself here.

 

2x complete vortec heads = $500
valve guide machining tool = $30
cam matched springs= $60
edel RPM air gap Vortec intake = $300

Total= $890

Compared to what they want for the package, which gives me the top end gaskets which i dont need as i already have to order a whole kit for the engine. and also gives me the bolts which i wanted to grab some ARPs so i wouldnt need them. It would probably also be a good idea to swap the springs on the package heads to match up with the cam.


I just dont see how its that great of a deal for what im doing, it would be an awesome deal for someone just looking to swap heads. As for the shipping im going to get raped on it anyways...


I dunno, maybe ill just stick a speaker in it and play a sound clip from the drag strip and have someone push the car around...

 

The package comes with the right springs, It comes with good bolts for both the heads and intake comes with the right rocker arms read the discription. Comes with the gaskets (head and intake) Comes with the machining done right. Its a complete package.

I suggest you try looking for performance stuff throu your local Canadian Tire. Some of their prices on performance stuff are quite good. Some is not. They are hooked up with Keystone (performance parts distributors)
Now. They can get you just about anything you want, but it will be special order, I'm sure. They have fast nation wide distribution.
When you compare cost keep in mind the *real cost* of importing and shipping to your door in Yellowknife . UPS customs broker fees are a killer. Sometimes CTC is CHEAPER!! Your local GM parts counter is hooked up Nation wide too. Can get some good conections thu them.

 

[QUOTE=F-BIRD'88]The package comes with the right springs, It comes with good bolts for both the heads and intake comes with the right rocker arms read the ............... (head and intake) Comes with the machining done right. QUOTE]

It seems to me you missed this part, as the vortecs come lift limited (stock) OR already machined for the big lift from scoggin dickey for a few bucks more....

 

Yes i did miss the part about the rockers and bolts, that does make it a bit of a better deal for me now.


As for CTC, im well aware of their connections with Keystone (partsman for 3 years) and believe me if they didnt nail a guy up the **** on markup and shipping up here it would be a not bad place to order from. But some of the time keystone is right off their rockers for pricing!

On my excel spreadsheets ive been making the difference between getting it from jegs and keystones list price goes something like this:


Jegs $2785.79us/3245.45ca
keystone list price $4895.63ca + 20% markup + shipping = apprx $6000

i dont quite think it will cost $3000 to ship the stuff from jegs, although you never know...

 

Email me your spread sheet. may not have all the answers for ya but may find something for ya. Are you rebuilding the whole motor or just upgrading the top end of an existing motor that in the car now?

russ_q@hotmail.com

 

Check your inbox, i sent you one of the excel sheets!

 

I think f-bird will have it covered, but f-bird, share any ambiguous thoughts you may have of course eh?
if this is your first motor build (is it) or first to this extent, I guarantee you'll miss something or other, or there'll be something that you wish you ordered....

 

yes im sure theirs going to be a few tidbits i havent ordered, but hopefully when the time comes that i have discovered that im missing something i can get a suitable replacement in town!

One thing that just popped into my head was the freaking water pump, how could i forget that But at least theirs about a half million OEM pumps in town, should i bother buying an aftermarket pump?

 

so... did you get the email?

 

Not unless you got money to burn and just need another sticker for the toolbox

 

yes it did but it has no pricing. Don;t waste your $$$ on Blink blink and stuff or you'll never be able to afford cylinder heads. Put the $$$'s were it will do the most good first.

 

Ok, i noticed after i sent the e-mail it went all to crap and everything was all out of align... freaking microsoft... lol

Oh, Its bling bling

So i should keep my old junker HEI dizzy, wires & fuel pump, what else do you think i should just re-use?