Extreme fouling...Rings or Valve Seals?
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From: Vancouver, WA/Portland, Orey-gun
Car: 1986 Camaro Berlinetta
Engine: 4 bolt 355ci
Transmission: Borg Warner T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Posi Disc Rear
Extreme fouling...Rings or Valve Seals?
I have a 1986 Camaro Berlinetta (see sig for mods) That the 350 in it just started acting up.
went out the other day to start it up and drive it to school since the weather was being cooperative and I just got my 3.73's in. Just did an oil change of Castrol HM 10-30 last week, and Oil pressure has always stayed around 50-60 psi cold. I had a HELL of a time getting it started. Backfired once out the carb, but eventually fired. And started idling really irratically and was shaking badly like there's a serious miss. Oil pressure gauge pegged at 60psi.
I've put 50 miles on the car since November, just a few trips around the block about every week. Never any problems with power loss before the oil change, always idled smoothly. Timing was set at 6 degrees base and 28 degrees advance and has not been touched.
it stalled after about a minute or two of idling, the header tubes for 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, all get warm, while 2, 5 and 7 were ice cold. Double checked the plug wires on 2, 5 and 7, to make sure all were sitting snug. That was ok. Took a timing light to see if the dizzy was giving current to the plugs. Yep. I took 2, 5 and 7's plugs out and they were soaked in oil pretty badly. Driver's bank seemed to put out quite a bit of blue smoke. I Cleaned the plugs out and put them back in. Idled great for about 5 minutes all the header tubes seemed to warm, and then started bucking and shaking badly. Pulled #4 again, and it was fouled in the same way as before.
Bought 3 new plugs today for 2, 5 and 7 (Delco TS43's) and put them in, double checked the timing, checked the cap, rotor and the plugs for the module. Fired it up and it was ok for again, about 5-10 minutes at idle, then the same symptom.
Could this be just Valve seals? Or am I facing a deeper problem, like misseated rings?
should I try a few squirts of oil down each spark plug hole and see if that improves things?
someone on my regional board suggested it might be a fuel washout problem.
anything else I should consider trying?
went out the other day to start it up and drive it to school since the weather was being cooperative and I just got my 3.73's in. Just did an oil change of Castrol HM 10-30 last week, and Oil pressure has always stayed around 50-60 psi cold. I had a HELL of a time getting it started. Backfired once out the carb, but eventually fired. And started idling really irratically and was shaking badly like there's a serious miss. Oil pressure gauge pegged at 60psi.
I've put 50 miles on the car since November, just a few trips around the block about every week. Never any problems with power loss before the oil change, always idled smoothly. Timing was set at 6 degrees base and 28 degrees advance and has not been touched.
it stalled after about a minute or two of idling, the header tubes for 1, 3, 4, 6, 8, all get warm, while 2, 5 and 7 were ice cold. Double checked the plug wires on 2, 5 and 7, to make sure all were sitting snug. That was ok. Took a timing light to see if the dizzy was giving current to the plugs. Yep. I took 2, 5 and 7's plugs out and they were soaked in oil pretty badly. Driver's bank seemed to put out quite a bit of blue smoke. I Cleaned the plugs out and put them back in. Idled great for about 5 minutes all the header tubes seemed to warm, and then started bucking and shaking badly. Pulled #4 again, and it was fouled in the same way as before.
Bought 3 new plugs today for 2, 5 and 7 (Delco TS43's) and put them in, double checked the timing, checked the cap, rotor and the plugs for the module. Fired it up and it was ok for again, about 5-10 minutes at idle, then the same symptom.
Could this be just Valve seals? Or am I facing a deeper problem, like misseated rings?
should I try a few squirts of oil down each spark plug hole and see if that improves things?
someone on my regional board suggested it might be a fuel washout problem.
anything else I should consider trying?
Last edited by Quasi-Traction; Feb 7, 2007 at 06:30 PM. Reason: spelling
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From: Mobile, AL
Car: GTA
Engine: 383 HSR
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
You said the plugs fouled out. You never discribed what they look like. Soaked in oil? Smell like fuel? How about a picture.
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From: 62656
Car: 1991 S10 pickup 2700lbs
Engine: 4.3L Z TBI
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.08 7.625"
when does it smoke the most ?
under acceleration
or sitting idling, or all the time ?
or ?
normally valve stem seals only cause any real oil smoke at startup for a couple seconds
if its smoking all the time then theres a bad issue,
check compression on all cylinders the highest one and the lowest one should all be within 20% of each other
and be around 150psi and not much less than that unless it was an HO engine(higher CR)
is it using/missing oil ?
good luck
under acceleration
or sitting idling, or all the time ?
or ?
normally valve stem seals only cause any real oil smoke at startup for a couple seconds
if its smoking all the time then theres a bad issue,
check compression on all cylinders the highest one and the lowest one should all be within 20% of each other
and be around 150psi and not much less than that unless it was an HO engine(higher CR)
is it using/missing oil ?
good luck
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From: MD
Car: '88 IROC-Z medium orange metallic
Engine: L98
Transmission: 700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.27
----------
Here's what I posted in your other thread:
Read the plugs. Sounds like the rings went away on you. If it was the valve seals, the cylinders would at least fire enough to get the headers hot and they wouldn't be stone cold.
Do a compression test and leakdown regardless of what the plugs say. If the rings are washed the leakdown will show it. For them to be washed though, it would have to have been real rich.
Did you break the motor in properly? Who built it?
Last edited by Dialed_In; Feb 7, 2007 at 09:10 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Thread Starter
Member
Joined: Apr 2006
Posts: 117
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From: Vancouver, WA/Portland, Orey-gun
Car: 1986 Camaro Berlinetta
Engine: 4 bolt 355ci
Transmission: Borg Warner T-5
Axle/Gears: 3.73 Posi Disc Rear
Nelapse:
I'll see if I can snap a picture. Had a bit of a fuel smell, but I could rub oil off the end of the electrode onto my finger.
Fast68:
Seems to smoke a bit off idle and when idling. It might seem worse to me at idle because I can get out of the car and see all the smoke. I can't tell when the car is moving, even looking out the rear view mirror and behind me. Can't see any significant oil loss by reading the dipstick but it does look down a bit.
I don't have a compression gauge, but I might be able to borrow one this weekend.
Dialed_In:
motor is most definately not new. Unknown mileage on it. Its allegedly a L82 out of a 77 vette. I bought the Berlinetta with no motor/trans and the motor came with it, allegedly having a severe oil leak. I put it in, put accessories on it, put new timing cover gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, valve cover gaskets and oil pan gasket.
Don't know if its really an L82, but it is a 3970014 4 bolt block, and the heads are 881 casting, which seem to support the prior owner's claim.
Right now I have a SMI stage 1 Q-jet on it, which I think is a tad rich on the primary circuts. I've been screwing around with a few metering rod/jet changes with it for a couple months to lean it out. Its definately improved over when I got it, but i'm still not 100% satisfied with it. I wish now I'd bought a Holley DP 650. I very strongly doubt it was a washout problem...but it was what someone suggested to me.
I'll see if I can snap a picture. Had a bit of a fuel smell, but I could rub oil off the end of the electrode onto my finger.
Fast68:
Seems to smoke a bit off idle and when idling. It might seem worse to me at idle because I can get out of the car and see all the smoke. I can't tell when the car is moving, even looking out the rear view mirror and behind me. Can't see any significant oil loss by reading the dipstick but it does look down a bit.
I don't have a compression gauge, but I might be able to borrow one this weekend.
Dialed_In:
motor is most definately not new. Unknown mileage on it. Its allegedly a L82 out of a 77 vette. I bought the Berlinetta with no motor/trans and the motor came with it, allegedly having a severe oil leak. I put it in, put accessories on it, put new timing cover gasket, intake and exhaust gaskets, valve cover gaskets and oil pan gasket.
Don't know if its really an L82, but it is a 3970014 4 bolt block, and the heads are 881 casting, which seem to support the prior owner's claim.
Right now I have a SMI stage 1 Q-jet on it, which I think is a tad rich on the primary circuts. I've been screwing around with a few metering rod/jet changes with it for a couple months to lean it out. Its definately improved over when I got it, but i'm still not 100% satisfied with it. I wish now I'd bought a Holley DP 650. I very strongly doubt it was a washout problem...but it was what someone suggested to me.
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From: Mobile, AL
Car: GTA
Engine: 383 HSR
Transmission: TH-700R4
Axle/Gears: 3.42
3970014....350...70-76...2 or 4
The casting numbers match this block.
Spark plugs will smell like fuel if they are rich or flooded. If it was not soaked in fuel that is probably is not the reason you are running like that.
The casting numbers match this block.
Spark plugs will smell like fuel if they are rich or flooded. If it was not soaked in fuel that is probably is not the reason you are running like that.
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