What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,403
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From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I've rented Mustang GTs, Challengers, and Camaros in the last few months, ALL OF WHICH are mid to low 12 second cars. ALL OF WHICH can have another half second knocked off of their times with the simplest of modifications; better tires and an exhaust would do the trick.
RENT-A-MULES.
Business travel; I just visit the web site, click on "standard" car, and this is what I ended up with. Not every time of course, probably I've had 40 Camrys for every Camaro, but still.
It's 2020 now, not 2007. Let alone 1990. Time, technology, marketplace expectations, have ALL moved on. Even in 2007 the original poster moron's complaint was ludicrous; but today, it's just bald-faced stupid. So, if the n00b's first post is to necro one of the stoooooopidest posts of its day, that doesn't say very much about his own intelligence, either.
So I went and looked around for some old muscle car track times. Which a L98 car would WALLOP most of. Probably, not least because of, TIRES.
Motor Trend 1966.
1966 Chevy II 275HP 327 Power Glide with 3.08's.
16.4 @ 85.87 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1970
1970 Nova 300HP 350 TH350 3.07's
16.5 @ 85.0 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1971.
1971 Nova 245HP 350 TH350 with 2.56's
17.20 @ 81.89 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Hot Rod Magazine 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4Speed M20 with 3.55's.
14.85 @ 95.65 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4 speed M20 with 3.55's.
15.8 @ 89.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1970.
1970 Camaro 300 HP 350 TH350 with 3.07's.
16.6 @ 86.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1972.
1972 Camaro 165 HP 350 TH350 with 2.73's.
18.5 @ 79 MPH
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1967.
1967 Corvette 300HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.0 @ 86.5 MPH.
-----------------------------------------------
Car Life 1968.
1968 Chevelle 275HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.8 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1971.
1971 Chevelle 270 HP 350 TH350 with 3.31's
16.9 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Hopefully this asinine thing will retire to its grave and stay there this time.
RENT-A-MULES.
Business travel; I just visit the web site, click on "standard" car, and this is what I ended up with. Not every time of course, probably I've had 40 Camrys for every Camaro, but still.
It's 2020 now, not 2007. Let alone 1990. Time, technology, marketplace expectations, have ALL moved on. Even in 2007 the original poster moron's complaint was ludicrous; but today, it's just bald-faced stupid. So, if the n00b's first post is to necro one of the stoooooopidest posts of its day, that doesn't say very much about his own intelligence, either.
So I went and looked around for some old muscle car track times. Which a L98 car would WALLOP most of. Probably, not least because of, TIRES.
Motor Trend 1966.
1966 Chevy II 275HP 327 Power Glide with 3.08's.
16.4 @ 85.87 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1970
1970 Nova 300HP 350 TH350 3.07's
16.5 @ 85.0 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1971.
1971 Nova 245HP 350 TH350 with 2.56's
17.20 @ 81.89 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Hot Rod Magazine 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4Speed M20 with 3.55's.
14.85 @ 95.65 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Car Life 1967.
1967 Camaro SS 295HP 350 4 speed M20 with 3.55's.
15.8 @ 89.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1970.
1970 Camaro 300 HP 350 TH350 with 3.07's.
16.6 @ 86.00 MPH.
--------------------------------------------------
Motor Trend 1972.
1972 Camaro 165 HP 350 TH350 with 2.73's.
18.5 @ 79 MPH
--------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1967.
1967 Corvette 300HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.0 @ 86.5 MPH.
-----------------------------------------------
Car Life 1968.
1968 Chevelle 275HP 327 Powerglide with 3.36's.
16.8 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Road and Track 1971.
1971 Chevelle 270 HP 350 TH350 with 3.31's
16.9 @ 82 MPH.
-------------------------------------------------
Hopefully this asinine thing will retire to its grave and stay there this time.
I have a 215K mile 2007 3.5L V6 luxury sedan with intake/headers/exhaust and tune that has clicked off a 13.1 @ 107 in the 1/4 and still gets 25 mpg highway with the a/c blowing in the low-mid 30° range. My larger, heavier 5.6L V8 sedan went 12.2 @ 112 with the same mods and still pulled down 24-26 mpg highway. Both were run how I drive them daily minus dropping the rear tire pressure a little.
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
Transmission: TKX
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I remember during the heyday of my crotch rocket riding days in the late 90's/early 2000's thinking 12 second cars were slow. It's all relative to your experience and frame of mind.
These days if I had a 12 second car I would be ecstatic.
These days if I had a 12 second car I would be ecstatic.
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Joined: Jul 2005
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Yep!!!
I have a 215K mile 2007 3.5L V6 luxury sedan with intake/headers/exhaust and tune that has clicked off a 13.1 @ 107 in the 1/4 and still gets 25 mpg highway with the a/c blowing in the low-mid 30° range. My larger, heavier 5.6L V8 sedan went 12.2 @ 112 with the same mods and still pulled down 24-26 mpg highway. Both were run how I drive them daily minus dropping the rear tire pressure a little.
I have a 215K mile 2007 3.5L V6 luxury sedan with intake/headers/exhaust and tune that has clicked off a 13.1 @ 107 in the 1/4 and still gets 25 mpg highway with the a/c blowing in the low-mid 30° range. My larger, heavier 5.6L V8 sedan went 12.2 @ 112 with the same mods and still pulled down 24-26 mpg highway. Both were run how I drive them daily minus dropping the rear tire pressure a little.
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 10,403
Likes: 492
From: Hurst, Texas
Car: 1983 G20 Chevy
Engine: 305 TPI
Transmission: 4L60
Axle/Gears: 14 bolt with 3.07 gears
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
2007 G35 Sedan with a 3.5HR
2011 M56S with the 5.6 V8
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From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
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Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I'd be happy with a very low-14 second car...
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From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I live in todays world, always.
Fast is relative compared to the day I think about it.
1987, 14's was GOOD for a top tier production car. 13's was king. Only the Supercars were in the 12's.
Fast forward to 2020. The McLaren 720's runs bottom 10's all day long. All of the top dog Muscle car/Pony Cars like the Camaro, Challenger/Charger, and Mustang are in the 11's or better.
Your fast 4 bangers are 13's and 12's stock.
Technology marches on.
Enjoy your all original Thirdgen for what it is, does't mean that because it runs 14's you can't have fun with it still. But to call it 'fast' in today's world is going to bring some raised eyebrows. They aren't fast, not anymore because the bar has moved.
And 20 years from now, the electric Hypercars will have taken over all records except maybe endurance records. Leaving all the current gen are in the dust.
Fast is relative compared to the day I think about it.
1987, 14's was GOOD for a top tier production car. 13's was king. Only the Supercars were in the 12's.
Fast forward to 2020. The McLaren 720's runs bottom 10's all day long. All of the top dog Muscle car/Pony Cars like the Camaro, Challenger/Charger, and Mustang are in the 11's or better.
Your fast 4 bangers are 13's and 12's stock.
Technology marches on.
Enjoy your all original Thirdgen for what it is, does't mean that because it runs 14's you can't have fun with it still. But to call it 'fast' in today's world is going to bring some raised eyebrows. They aren't fast, not anymore because the bar has moved.
And 20 years from now, the electric Hypercars will have taken over all records except maybe endurance records. Leaving all the current gen are in the dust.
Last edited by Thirdgen89GTA; Apr 13, 2020 at 10:36 PM.
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From: Spring Hill, Fl.
Car: 87 iroc-z
Engine: 454
Transmission: th350
Axle/Gears: 3.73
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I think its insane that some drag week or street cars can run the same times as an NHRA pro stock car, then drive home from the track with the A/C on.
Last time i went to the track, (1/8 mile), i ran a 7.2. A tesla was there running the same exact times.
At least i can say mines built, not bought.
Last time i went to the track, (1/8 mile), i ran a 7.2. A tesla was there running the same exact times.
At least i can say mines built, not bought.
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From: South Ms
Car: 89 Firebird
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I will say this. Always heard about those legendary old "musclecars " coming up and yes I do love them. But.. my dad bought a BONE STOCK 69 Chevelle SS 396 and I can tell you my low-mid 13 sec 87 T/A would and did outrun the heavy chevy no problem. In all fairness the big block Chevelle spun bad and really needed slicks but stock cars didn't come with slicks. Id suspect that "legendary musclecar" was a mid 14 sec car in "PURE STOCK FORM"
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Of all these modern 18-speed, forty OHC, quad-direct injection, traction-controlled, wifi hot-spot cars tweaked to run between traffic lights and toll booths efficiently, how many can top out at 165 or better and hold it for a few hours? Probably a mere handful, and only under specific conditions.
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From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
Engine: 350 with L-69 components
Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt/3.73 ..
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
My question is, unless you're a drag racer who likes to run your car at the track on a regular basis, why does anyone care? A 14-second car will get you just as arrested, just as fined, just as maimed, just as killed, your car just as impounded, or your insurance just as cancelled as a 10-second car....
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
Transmission: TKX
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
My question is, unless you're a drag racer who likes to run your car at the track on a regular basis, why does anyone care? A 14-second car will get you just as arrested, just as fined, just as maimed, just as killed, your car just as impounded, or your insurance just as cancelled as a 10-second car....
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From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
Engine: 350 with L-69 components
Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt/3.73 ..
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Most of us are aware that the bar has been raised and that everything is quick nowadays, but if you can't enjoy driving a 14-second car on the STREET that plants you in the seat and really scoots when you stomp on the go-pedal, something's wrong with you. Yeah, if you take your car to the track, it's a different story...
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 786
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
Transmission: TKX
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Most of us are aware that the bar has been raised and that everything is quick nowadays, but if you can't enjoy driving a 14-second car on the STREET that plants you in the seat and really scoots when you stomp on the go-pedal, something's wrong with you. Yeah, if you take your car to the track, it's a different story...
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Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
Engine: 350 with L-69 components
Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt/3.73 ..
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Understandable, but your thirdgen looks cool, sounds cool, and will out-handle the Jeep...
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Where these new faster cars really shine isn't maiming and killing the driver, it's in how many other people they kill that were just trying to reach their destination. Wasn't that long ago here in town, that a kid in his dad's late model Mustang ran into a bunch of cars in an intersection and killed someone. Driver of the Mustang was fine, the people he ran into weren't as fortunate.
https://www.ksal.com/three-hurt-in-four-vehicle-crash/
The Aftermath...
https://www.cjonline.com/news/crime-...g-deadly-crash
https://www.ksal.com/three-hurt-in-four-vehicle-crash/
Three people were hurt, one of them critically, in a four-vehicle crash during the noon hour on Monday.
Salina Police Sgt. Mike Miller told KSAL News at the scene that the crash was caused by a Ford Mustang driving recklessly at a high rate of speed.
According to Miller, the Mustang was speeding north on Ohio. It ran a red light at the intersection of Ohio and Republic, and collided with a Pontiac G6 that was headed west on Republic, crossing Ohio to make a left turn. Two vehicles that were stopped at the red light in the northbound lanes of Ohio were then hit by the two vehicles that collided.
Miller says that three people were transported to Salina Regional Health Center.
Two of the people injured were treated at the hospital and released. They are 54-year-old John Newman, a passenger in the G6 and also 47-year-old Charles Peters from Lindsborg.
The third injured person, identified as 53-year-old Dianna Boos of Salina, was in critical condition. She was in surgery late Monday afternoon in Salina before being transferred to a Wichita hospital.
The driver of the Mustang, 18-year-old Hunter Burns, was not seriously injured. Neither was a 15-year-old Jorden Lehman, a passenger in the car.
Miller says that the Mustang may have been racing a white pickup truck, which did not stop. The Mustang also may have been involved in a wreck a short time earlier, hitting a guide wire in the area of Belmont and Robin Road.
As of Tuesday morning, the accident is still under investigation. Police say that no arrests have been made, but it’s likely that Burns could receive some citations.
Salina Police Sgt. Mike Miller told KSAL News at the scene that the crash was caused by a Ford Mustang driving recklessly at a high rate of speed.
According to Miller, the Mustang was speeding north on Ohio. It ran a red light at the intersection of Ohio and Republic, and collided with a Pontiac G6 that was headed west on Republic, crossing Ohio to make a left turn. Two vehicles that were stopped at the red light in the northbound lanes of Ohio were then hit by the two vehicles that collided.
Miller says that three people were transported to Salina Regional Health Center.
Two of the people injured were treated at the hospital and released. They are 54-year-old John Newman, a passenger in the G6 and also 47-year-old Charles Peters from Lindsborg.
The third injured person, identified as 53-year-old Dianna Boos of Salina, was in critical condition. She was in surgery late Monday afternoon in Salina before being transferred to a Wichita hospital.
The driver of the Mustang, 18-year-old Hunter Burns, was not seriously injured. Neither was a 15-year-old Jorden Lehman, a passenger in the car.
Miller says that the Mustang may have been racing a white pickup truck, which did not stop. The Mustang also may have been involved in a wreck a short time earlier, hitting a guide wire in the area of Belmont and Robin Road.
As of Tuesday morning, the accident is still under investigation. Police say that no arrests have been made, but it’s likely that Burns could receive some citations.
The Aftermath...
https://www.cjonline.com/news/crime-...g-deadly-crash
A central Kansas 18-year-old has been ordered to spend four years in prison for causing a several-vehicle crash that killed one of the other drivers.
Last edited by Drew; Apr 16, 2020 at 05:19 PM.
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Where these new faster cars really shine isn't maiming and killing the driver, it's in how many other people they kill that were just trying to reach their destination. Wasn't that long ago here in town, that a kid in his dad's late model Mustang ran into a bunch of cars in an intersection and killed someone. Driver of the Mustang was fine, the people he ran into weren't as fortunate.
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Joined: Sep 2003
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From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
if you can't enjoy driving a 14-second car on the STREET that plants you in the seat and really scoots when you stomp on the go-pedal,
Now even 9 sec cars dont feel all that incredible to me. You just get used to it. Sure they can be fun enough in the 12, 11, 10 sec range. All in how much experience you have with it. To me the iroc and its suspension handling characteristics was more fun. I lost that in my car now, its purely straight line
Joined: Mar 2001
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Car: '89 Firebird
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I think a person can get used to almost anything as long as the car is collected without too much drama. That's the problem with my old 68 El Camino. It was a 13 second car with lots of drama. Felt faster than it was. And the new cars feel slower than they are.
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
After riding in a Tesla last year, all I want to do is buy a Tesla, gut the entire thing and transplant the entire power train to my 82 Trans Am and be done with it. Sadly, I just can't get much excitement from any gasoline engine after riding in that car.
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Joined: Sep 2004
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From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
As long as the chassis is still good you'll buy a battery replacement. The motor/controller systems will still likely be perfectly fine since they have so few moving parts.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,902
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From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Some being greater than 2hp? You enjoy your stock car, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. No one is saying you can't enjoy it. They are arguing the definition that its "fast". Its not. It was 30 years ago, its not anymore.
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 239
From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Over the last 12 months my Focus RS cost me $2,160.11 to drive. 10 years down the road that's $21,600.
Oil changes are something gas cars need. Electric cars don't need them. How often does the gear fluid in the axle get changed, that's as close as electric car will come to an oil change. The most you might have to do is a coolant flush, which is the same for gas cars cause they need coolant too.
Electric cars use regenerative braking so the brake pads see significantly less use. Wouldn't be surprised to see brake pads lasting over 100,000 miles because of that.
Electric is cheaper over the long run despite the initial buy in. Electric battery packs will only get cheaper as well as chemistry improves. Electric is also significantly more efficient, converting upwards of 90% of the stored energy into motion, while gas engines struggle to hit 40%.
If you want to see the data I'm pulling those #'s from have at it: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus...en89gta/796183
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From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
Transmission: TKX
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
My Focus RS costs me about 17c a mile to drive and gets about 21mpg combined.
Over the last 12 months my Focus RS cost me $2,160.11 to drive. 10 years down the road that's $21,600.
Oil changes are something gas cars need. Electric cars don't need them. How often does the gear fluid in the axle get changed, that's as close as electric car will come to an oil change. The most you might have to do is a coolant flush, which is the same for gas cars cause they need coolant too.
Electric cars use regenerative braking so the brake pads see significantly less use. Wouldn't be surprised to see brake pads lasting over 100,000 miles because of that.
Electric is cheaper over the long run despite the initial buy in. Electric battery packs will only get cheaper as well as chemistry improves. Electric is also significantly more efficient, converting upwards of 90% of the stored energy into motion, while gas engines struggle to hit 40%.
If you want to see the data I'm pulling those #'s from have at it: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus...en89gta/796183
Over the last 12 months my Focus RS cost me $2,160.11 to drive. 10 years down the road that's $21,600.
Oil changes are something gas cars need. Electric cars don't need them. How often does the gear fluid in the axle get changed, that's as close as electric car will come to an oil change. The most you might have to do is a coolant flush, which is the same for gas cars cause they need coolant too.
Electric cars use regenerative braking so the brake pads see significantly less use. Wouldn't be surprised to see brake pads lasting over 100,000 miles because of that.
Electric is cheaper over the long run despite the initial buy in. Electric battery packs will only get cheaper as well as chemistry improves. Electric is also significantly more efficient, converting upwards of 90% of the stored energy into motion, while gas engines struggle to hit 40%.
If you want to see the data I'm pulling those #'s from have at it: http://www.fuelly.com/car/ford/focus...en89gta/796183
How many people are going to be daily driving a electric swapped third gen ? Which is what was being discussed initially. Most likely it's going to sit in a garage 90% of the time while those batteries deteriorate into useless hunks of toxic chemicals. Sounds like a great return on investment for those $7000 battery packs.
Going a step further, my "daily driver" has 14,000 miles on it. I bought it new in 2015. In 10 years the engine will still be fine, probably couldn't say the same thing for a 15 year old pile of vape batteries that Tesla calls a power cell. Another great return on investment for all those miles I don't drive.
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Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
How many people are going to be daily driving a electric swapped third gen ? Which is what was being discussed initially. Most likely it's going to sit in a garage 90% of the time while those batteries deteriorate into useless hunks of toxic chemicals. Sounds like a great return on investment for those $7000 battery packs.
Going a step further, my "daily driver" has 14,000 miles on it. I bought it new in 2015. In 10 years the engine will still be fine, probably couldn't say the same thing for a 15 year old pile of vape batteries that Tesla calls a power cell. Another great return on investment for all those miles I don't drive.
Going a step further, my "daily driver" has 14,000 miles on it. I bought it new in 2015. In 10 years the engine will still be fine, probably couldn't say the same thing for a 15 year old pile of vape batteries that Tesla calls a power cell. Another great return on investment for all those miles I don't drive.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 239
From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
How many people are going to be daily driving a electric swapped third gen ? Which is what was being discussed initially. Most likely it's going to sit in a garage 90% of the time while those batteries deteriorate into useless hunks of toxic chemicals. Sounds like a great return on investment for those $7000 battery packs.
Going a step further, my "daily driver" has 14,000 miles on it. I bought it new in 2015. In 10 years the engine will still be fine, probably couldn't say the same thing for a 15 year old pile of vape batteries that Tesla calls a power cell. Another great return on investment for all those miles I don't drive.
Going a step further, my "daily driver" has 14,000 miles on it. I bought it new in 2015. In 10 years the engine will still be fine, probably couldn't say the same thing for a 15 year old pile of vape batteries that Tesla calls a power cell. Another great return on investment for all those miles I don't drive.
There is a lot of worry over electric cars for nothing. They are the future.
I see a lot of comments from people who exaggerate the worries about cold weather range loss in addition to longevity and range anxiety. Its all over-blown by people who aren't really looking at the current state of technology or where its going.
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,902
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From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I think you'll be very surprised about this in the long run. The first gen0 electric swapped muscle cars have been around for years now. They used lawn mower batteries and hand switching and forklift motors (no joke.) There are services to rebuild the packs on Priuses and other cars so I don't see those Tesla packs being any different in the long term. As fleets of these vehicles get more common and cheaper so will the parts to build something cool. It's like how back in the day people would be amazed you were able to get an LS Engine to swap into a car and now tons of places have 5.3L truck engines for $500. It's a matter of time and it may not be in the next few years but the next two decades absolutely. Electric cars will supplement but not supplant gasoline engines.
But I see the ICE steadily losing market share to electric in the long run. Like I said, 20-30 years, I'm thinking very long term.
Markets for lawn mowers, and other tool based things will fall first. Electric has already supplanted the RC Hobby grade stuff as king of performance and usability. Every performance record now is held by an electric RC car, Nitro cars are dead.
Senior Member
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 786
Likes: 197
From: SW Missouri
Car: 1989 Trans Am
Engine: sp357
Transmission: TKX
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Lithium batteries aren't like Alkaline, NiCD, or NiMH chemistries. Their shelf life is significantly better. Tesla's warranty on the powertrain is 8yrs or 150k miles while maintaining 70% of rated capacity. Looking at the general statistics the packs are going to last longer without major range loss.
There is a lot of worry over electric cars for nothing. They are the future.
I see a lot of comments from people who exaggerate the worries about cold weather range loss in addition to longevity and range anxiety. Its all over-blown by people who aren't really looking at the current state of technology or where its going.
There is a lot of worry over electric cars for nothing. They are the future.
I see a lot of comments from people who exaggerate the worries about cold weather range loss in addition to longevity and range anxiety. Its all over-blown by people who aren't really looking at the current state of technology or where its going.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,183
Likes: 42
From: Oakdale, Ca
Car: 89 IrocZ
Engine: L98-ish
Transmission: 700R4
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Was fun back in the day, if you ran in the 13's, you were fast. When cars came into town looking for a big $$ race, we could tell they were not made to just cruise around. So when we'd get them coming, we'd putt them, around for several blocks, then get to our spot. Generally they were so loaded up, they couldn't get out of their own way.
Yes, those were fun days, we put engines together with parts we could scrounge, the guys in the know, knew how to port heads, etc....we were just hicks and having fun.
Like as said before, even a 4 cyl newer car is faster/quicker than what we had (for the most part)
But nothing like the feel of the old days
Yes, those were fun days, we put engines together with parts we could scrounge, the guys in the know, knew how to port heads, etc....we were just hicks and having fun.
Like as said before, even a 4 cyl newer car is faster/quicker than what we had (for the most part)
But nothing like the feel of the old days
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 17
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Was fun back in the day, if you ran in the 13's, you were fast. When cars came into town looking for a big $$ race, we could tell they were not made to just cruise around. So when we'd get them coming, we'd putt them, around for several blocks, then get to our spot. Generally they were so loaded up, they couldn't get out of their own way.
Yes, those were fun days, we put engines together with parts we could scrounge, the guys in the know, knew how to port heads, etc....we were just hicks and having fun.
Like as said before, even a 4 cyl newer car is faster/quicker than what we had (for the most part)
But nothing like the feel of the old days
Yes, those were fun days, we put engines together with parts we could scrounge, the guys in the know, knew how to port heads, etc....we were just hicks and having fun.
Like as said before, even a 4 cyl newer car is faster/quicker than what we had (for the most part)
But nothing like the feel of the old days
What's funny about the money cars if they would have used their brains a bit they could have probably gotten through the drive without too much of an issue. Running strictly locked timing was a huge part of the problem. Okay (ish) for a trailered drag car not so great for the street. I was actually having this conversation with someone today about the building part. I was looking for the porting info from a David Vizard book from the early 00s for World S/Rs. Guy asked me about it after I'd gotten some pages off him from Jim Hand's Pontiac book. If you look at the new version by Rocky Rotella there's no guide in it to port stock heads. I'm not going to say you'd burn down the world with production Pontiac heads that were ported out but plenty of people did pretty well in the day that way for not much money.
There's a lot of fun in the dimension of making a plan and executing it yourself in the hot rodding world that's unappreciated when you just buy a car. It's also not something that neatly fits into how many MPH you run in a quarter mile either. Focus on where you got today vs yesterday, not where someone else is at.
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 1999
Posts: 5,183
Likes: 42
From: Oakdale, Ca
Car: 89 IrocZ
Engine: L98-ish
Transmission: 700R4
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Oddly I will say that the lack of refinement and simplicity makes me somewhat endeared to old cars. There's a virtue in doing something and doing it well which was getting somewhere like A to B.
What's funny about the money cars if they would have used their brains a bit they could have probably gotten through the drive without too much of an issue. Running strictly locked timing was a huge part of the problem. Okay (ish) for a trailered drag car not so great for the street. I was actually having this conversation with someone today about the building part. I was looking for the porting info from a David Vizard book from the early 00s for World S/Rs. Guy asked me about it after I'd gotten some pages off him from Jim Hand's Pontiac book. If you look at the new version by Rocky Rotella there's no guide in it to port stock heads. I'm not going to say you'd burn down the world with production Pontiac heads that were ported out but plenty of people did pretty well in the day that way for not much money.
There's a lot of fun in the dimension of making a plan and executing it yourself in the hot rodding world that's unappreciated when you just buy a car. It's also not something that neatly fits into how many MPH you run in a quarter mile either. Focus on where you got today vs yesterday, not where someone else is at.
What's funny about the money cars if they would have used their brains a bit they could have probably gotten through the drive without too much of an issue. Running strictly locked timing was a huge part of the problem. Okay (ish) for a trailered drag car not so great for the street. I was actually having this conversation with someone today about the building part. I was looking for the porting info from a David Vizard book from the early 00s for World S/Rs. Guy asked me about it after I'd gotten some pages off him from Jim Hand's Pontiac book. If you look at the new version by Rocky Rotella there's no guide in it to port stock heads. I'm not going to say you'd burn down the world with production Pontiac heads that were ported out but plenty of people did pretty well in the day that way for not much money.
There's a lot of fun in the dimension of making a plan and executing it yourself in the hot rodding world that's unappreciated when you just buy a car. It's also not something that neatly fits into how many MPH you run in a quarter mile either. Focus on where you got today vs yesterday, not where someone else is at.
I'd still rather screw one together and enjoy it.
Supreme Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,985
Likes: 811
From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
Engine: 350 with L-69 components
Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt/3.73 ..
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
My car is not stock, and your "2hp" comment is just lame. A 14-second quarter mile car is still fast. It just so happens that there are even faster cars today. This whole debate is a stupid one. Unless you're drag racing (which is supposed to be done at a track, not the street), your quarter mile time or horsepower rating is irrelevant. Your car is either nice or it isn't, and it either has enough power to get out of its own way or it doesn't. It either runs good or it doesn't. This whole debate is nothing but a bunch of testosterone-fueled machismo...
Supreme Member
Joined: Sep 1999
Posts: 2,985
Likes: 811
From: Colorado USA
Car: '83 Firebird (T/A Clone)
Engine: 350 with L-69 components
Transmission: 700R-4, 2000 RPM stall converter
Axle/Gears: 10-bolt/3.73 ..
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Electric cars are pointless. They all get charged by electricity that is generated by coal-fired power plants (and a few nuclear plants), and the batteries are expensive and toxic. So much for being better for the environment...
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 5,902
Likes: 239
From: Chicagoland Suburbs
Car: 1989 Trans Am GTA
Engine: LT1, AFR 195cc, 231/239 LE cam.
Transmission: M28 T56
Axle/Gears: 3.23 10bolt waiting to explode.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
My car is not stock, and your "2hp" comment is just lame. A 14-second quarter mile car is still fast. It just so happens that there are even faster cars today. This whole debate is a stupid one. Unless you're drag racing (which is supposed to be done at a track, not the street), your quarter mile time or horsepower rating is irrelevant. Your car is either nice or it isn't, and it either has enough power to get out of its own way or it doesn't. It either runs good or it doesn't. This whole debate is nothing but a bunch of testosterone-fueled machismo...
Compare a top tier third gen of the day, the L98 against a new base Camaro. The new 4 cylinder Camaro with 275hp runs the 1/4 mile in under 14 seconds around 100mph. Faster than any third gen produced except the TTA and Firehawks.
So, if you are Faster, you are Slower. 14 seconds is slow.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Fast and Slow are relative definitions, not absolute. Fast is something you measure against something else and the bar changes. A 14 second car is fast compared to a model T, its not fast compared to a McLaren.
Compare a top tier third gen of the day, the L98 against a new base Camaro. The new 4 cylinder Camaro with 275hp runs the 1/4 mile in under 14 seconds around 100mph. Faster than any third gen produced except the TTA and Firehawks.
So, if you are Faster, you are Slower. 14 seconds is slow.
Compare a top tier third gen of the day, the L98 against a new base Camaro. The new 4 cylinder Camaro with 275hp runs the 1/4 mile in under 14 seconds around 100mph. Faster than any third gen produced except the TTA and Firehawks.
So, if you are Faster, you are Slower. 14 seconds is slow.
The debate is dumb either way. This thread belongs on the craptastic "theoretical and street racing" forum, with the rest of the crap.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,396
Likes: 2,067
Car: '89 Firebird
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: T56
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Ah, you love it! That's why you keep coming back and liking posts.
People just need to have fun with it and not take it serious. These kind of topics aren't settled by knowledge, nor do they ever come to a conclusion. Just have some light hearted fun sharing stories, have a good attitude, and maybe do a little ribbing - that's all it's for!
Honestly, it gets ruined by people who take it too serious and start arguing; writing many loooooong, rambling, repetitive posts full of dribble. Replying because they think they're "teaching" in some way. Thinking their brilliant look at the subject should end the whole discussion. LOL! Bottom line is you don't need to be smart to play in this thread. Just have fun with it!
People just need to have fun with it and not take it serious. These kind of topics aren't settled by knowledge, nor do they ever come to a conclusion. Just have some light hearted fun sharing stories, have a good attitude, and maybe do a little ribbing - that's all it's for!
Honestly, it gets ruined by people who take it too serious and start arguing; writing many loooooong, rambling, repetitive posts full of dribble. Replying because they think they're "teaching" in some way. Thinking their brilliant look at the subject should end the whole discussion. LOL! Bottom line is you don't need to be smart to play in this thread. Just have fun with it!
Last edited by QwkTrip; Apr 18, 2020 at 04:20 PM.
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
I'll participate in whatever thirdgen related topics people want to talk about, within reason.
Biggest issue with threads like this is that they border on non-technical, general discussion, which is purposely forbidden on these forums. Far too often, topics like this tend to devolve into name calling and BS.
Biggest issue with threads like this is that they border on non-technical, general discussion, which is purposely forbidden on these forums. Far too often, topics like this tend to devolve into name calling and BS.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,396
Likes: 2,067
Car: '89 Firebird
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: T56
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Don't be a fun sucker.
By the way, the History forum takes the cake for worst threads of all time.
By the way, the History forum takes the cake for worst threads of all time.
Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 10,396
Likes: 2,067
Car: '89 Firebird
Engine: 7.0L
Transmission: T56
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
So you REALLY want to know what a slow car is?
Wait until threads like this mature and see who's bitter and grumpy ----> There's your benchmark for slow.
Fast people aren't grumpy. They're happy. And often times ***holes.
Wait until threads like this mature and see who's bitter and grumpy ----> There's your benchmark for slow.
Fast people aren't grumpy. They're happy. And often times ***holes.
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,521
Likes: 204
From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
Electric is cheaper over the long run despite the initial buy in. Electric battery packs will only get cheaper as well as chemistry improves.
Originally Posted by Thirdgen89GTA
Electric is also significantly more efficient, converting upwards of 90% of the stored energy into motion.
By the way, anyone here ever roll race in a Tesla starting from 60-mph?
- Rob
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 25,895
Likes: 429
From: Pittsburgh PA
Car: 89 Iroc-z
Engine: 555 BBC Turbo
Transmission: TH400
Axle/Gears: MWC 9” 3.00
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Just go the drag strip and watch the street lanes go down and average it out. You’ll see the bar moved
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 10,521
Likes: 204
From: NYC / Jersey
Car: 1990 Trans Am GTA
Engine: Turbo 305 w/MS2
Transmission: 700R4
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
Yeah, that is sort of what I was getting at. Starting from higher speeds they run out of steam very quickly... and at the track, if I had to choose between launching capability, I would lean more towards an R35 over a Tesla. That's not to say that they are not nice cars, I mean hell my brother in law loves his, it's just not my cup-o-tea. Nor yours either, I'm sure.
- Rob
- Rob
Member
Joined: Apr 2018
Posts: 122
Likes: 39
From: Atlanta, GA
Car: 1988 Pontiac Firebird
Engine: 2.8 L V6
Transmission: 700R4
Supreme Member
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,210
Likes: 17
Re: What's with people thinking 14, 13, 12 second cars aren't fast?
That said I do find bench racing entertaining hence my participation in this thread.
In terms of the 4 cyl mustang, I'm guessing it probably had an additional turbocharger? If not 14s don't seem bad when you're looking at 19s. Long as she's not a Flintstones car.