Both of my cars are usually in the slower category when the local club does Corn Runs, or big road trips.

I'm usually on the road with Z06's, R8's, GTRs, Hellcats, Modified Mustangs/Camaros.

Basically, most road trips, I'm on the road with guys pushing 500whp+ easy peasy. When I'm in the GTA I can push decent straight line speed and hang in the middle of the pack since the GTA puts down mid/low 4xxWHP and its got big top end power. When I'm in the RS, I'm usually one of the slower cars since even running a custom 93 Octane tune with increased boost I'm only in the 350whp region.

 

Yep. .60/.63 Garret T3, FMIC, full 3" exhaust, 88 Turbocoupe engine management, ported and polished head with big valves, roller cam, T5, 3.55 8.8 posi rear, all stuffed into a stripped down 86 notchback (No A/C, no console, crank windows). Should be in the neighborhood of 300hp running 20-25psi, car probably weighs about 2600-2800lbs. It's just too bad it's a Ford.

 

Oh god yes, an old school 2.3T setup. I wish I could find the page but there was a guy with one that had a fully ported well everything and an HX35, fiberglass doors etc. What a fantastic car that was.

I'd totally beat on that like a red headed step child and enjoy doing it too.

You should dig up an Iron Duke Camaro and give it a friend. The people in this thread thing that 14s are slow, wait till they saw one of those.

 

I'm not crazy enough for a 2.5L project. The Ford 2.3 is basically a tractor engine, or an industrial power source (forklifts, generators, pumps, etc) but it at least had a little go in stock form. The turbo makes it completely silly. The engine is still as unrefined as they come, but put enough boost thru it and the car is exciting. I need to weld some patch panels in the floors, but I don't really want to get sidetracked into other projects until the Firebird has rounded the body work corner. The Mustang started as a 45k mile car that spent it's life parked outdoors, and was on it's second engine when I got it. Now it's on it's 4th engine, everything is rebuilt aside from the body and interior. The years of being a Minnesota/South Dakota car haven't been kind to the floors and rockers. I've had it listed for sale off and on, lots of nibbles, people from several states away say they want it, then back out when they try to figure out how to ship a car. It's only got another year left before it meets the 35 years Kansas requires for an antique plate. At that point it can just sit in the driveway until I get around to it.

A GM 2.5L with a turbo would still be an Iron Duke, I'm afraid... A 3.1L with a turbo wouldn't be bad, but it's not as easy as finding a junk Thunderbird and ripping out the drivetrain.

 

Drew that pic reminds me of the old 94 model or so Thunderbird SC a guy I used to know had. Not sure what engine it had but I remember it being a turbo and I could barely outrun him with my LB9 powered 91 Z28. Id run a 14.8x and hed run a 15.0x it was very close he would be running me down at the finish line but never did beat me. Good racing. I admit a Taurus SHO did get me a few times and a dang Omni GLH destroyed me LOL. That would just **** you off to get destroyed by such an ugly hatchback.

 

A local guy i know has a 84 capri 2.3T. Its over 500 whp thru the gforce 5 speed. Drag races it alot but constantly repairing it and the driveline. Its been 9.9’s but mostly raced in the low 10’s. Impressive but not worth the constant maintenance at that power level

 

The Ford 2.3 turbo was used up to 88 in the Thunderbird Turbocoupe, and 89 in the Merkur XR4Ti, the Supercoupes were 3.8L V6s with the belt driven supercharger, remember when everyone went to V6s with belt driven superchargers? The engine in my Mustang technically is out of an 89 XR4Ti, mostly because the 86 TC engine I had swapped in originally was REALLY tired, and a buddy was getting ready to crush a Merkur with a good short block. They say the stock short block becomes the weak link around 400hp, because the connecting rods go plastic and start stretching or compressing. Oversize forged pistons are a bit hard to come by without going to high dollar parts. Mine being a daily driver/beater/budget project, spending hundreds on pistons and hundreds more on better rods, plus all the extra machine work, was a bit more than I wanted to mess with. I'm still running the stock computer, stock 35lb injectors, the stock SVO/TC Vane Air Meter... I've got a set of 65lb injectors set aside, and converting to speed density would open up that ~300hp to 400hp, but then my turbo would need to be upgraded and I'd have to start watching the engine very closely, or rebuild the bottom end again... So that's why I stopped while I'm ahead, I didn't want to dump another chunk of change into it when the body is so rusty. The lack of A/C and creature comforts has gotten old too, I really just wanted to get back into a Firebird.

 

[QUOTEIt was a 13 second car with lots of drama. Felt faster than it was. And the new cars feel slower than they are.][/QUOTE]

This is why Ill always love older iron. I wouldnt want it with an electric motor if it ran 10s cause it would have no soul at all
I test drove a brand new 04 C5 M6 while my truck was in for service...even though it was reading 90mph when i let off all I could think is :wheres the power? Told the sales guy not a chance in hell and coulda gotten a deal from hell on it.
Felt slow and absolutely boring to me.

Fired up the 67 a few nights back just to keep the battery topped off, fumes will choke you out but the sound of it firing off, a big solid roller clattering away, nothing like it. Think about selling it often but the will never goes away btdt.

 

Stock M56S wouldn't have a problem hauling 4 people around at that speed with the a/c on. 7spd automatic with 2 overdrive gears and a 2.62 ring and pinion. 5.6 V8 was underated at 420 HP. Its just starting to breath well at 4,000 rpm. It was also an extremely quiet car inside. I kept finding myself rolling 100+ and it felt like you were still running 60 mph. Even at WOT when it was stock the engine was not overly noticeable.

This guy had his up around 175.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OxQdjN_sVZg​​​​

 

I went for a ride in a C6 Z06 car built for the road course/autocross. Near 580’s whp or so. Most effortless smoothest feeling 150 mph pull i ever been in lol. My car felt fine to 170 but after being a car designed for speed, its day and night lol. Modern stuff is nice, i need to get ride of my iroc

 

I have been a passenger in a stock C6Z at Road America when driven in anger buy a man with amazing driving skills. It was one of the wildest most insanely fun ride-alongs I've ever done. Corvettes OWN Road America. You go there for a HPDE and you'll see more vettes than anything else.

 

It is a big difference but most vehicles are stable well past the triple digits if the suspension is in good shape and they have high performance tires. I have had both a Ram and Titan in the 140-150 range and they were tight to the road and rode very smoothly. Both were slightly lowered and had low profile tires on them. I had my Express van up around 130 once too. I had it on low profile P275/40R20s at the time. It was on Nissan Titan Nismo wheels that are 20x9.5" with more offset for a wider wheel track. A few inches of wheel track can make a very noticeable difference in handling and stability at speed. Never even felt like it was moving along as fast as it was. The oversize 1.5" front sway bar, 1 3/8" rear sway bar, new urethane bushings all around, ​​​​​​ KYB monomax 2" piston monotube shocks, steering stabilizer and alignment with some added camber really made the thing handle very well for a box on wheels. I am sure it would have felt really sketchy above 80 mph on stock 235/75R15s with the stock garbage suspension (tiny front sway bar and no rear bar) worn out bushings, blown shocks, etc. I would not trust 100K or 200K mile suspension parts at high speeds. Just asking for a loose ball joint or tie rod end to break and send you flying or rolling in any car.

 

theres a huge difference between stable/smooth and a road course Z06 haha

 

Huber is semi close to me. I've seen this car run many times and it is pretty darn cool.

https://www.huberperformance.com/about_us

 

Really....you wouldn't spend that much on a motor that you daily drove for 10 years?

I own a Tesla P3, it does 0-60 in 2.9 secs. I commute 100 miles a day in it (26K miles in the last 14 months). Over the course of my commute I encounter at least one modern day muscle car...usually a MOPAR Charger or Challenger with some sort of SCAT pack with loud pipes looking way cooler than my ugly *** bud looking Tesla. There are 3 signalized intersections along the way where a lot traffic will turn and I end up along side one of these cars, the other day it happened to be a new Ford Raptor. I tip my cup of coffee to them and as the light turns green I watch them get really small in my review mirror. I haven't paid for gas in a year...which was up to $3 a gallon. So the $400-500 I used to spend in gas over 10 years...assuming I only drove 10 months out of the year equals $40K in 10 years. So it pencils out as far as the battery is concerned, and in 10 years the batteries will probably be less as more and more electric cars or hybrids flood the market.....simply due to VMT implementation to reduce GHG emissions. COVID 19 is revealing that with how quickly the ozone and air has cleaned up across the country. Plus the thing drives itself for the most part which helps me relax to and from work.

I also own a 17' C7Z, I haven't got it to go 0-60 in under 3 secs, but it does feel very fast and will stomp my Tesla P3 once the novelty of 0-60 is over..which is about the first shift for the C7.

When I got my first C5 I was very happy to break into the high 12's with it on run flat tires...had CAI and cat back exhaust (315 rwhp) . When I installed H&C, Headers, Underdrive Pullies, and CAI (430 rwhp), I broke into the mid 11s on 335/30 street tires rowing gears, I also used the car on many different road course for HPDEs and it was great.

But as some have said by todays terms 12s is the norm and high 11s are respectable. I drive my 91' Z28 and I get a lot of looks and thumbs but every kid in a new Subaru or Camry wants to race me...hell a V6 Charger, Challenger, Mustang, and Camaro is faster. So I definitely need to make my Z28 quicker it doesn't have to be as fast as a newer Camaro but if I could at least get it 350-400 bhp and a 12 sec car it would be in the norm and look a lot cooler than the new cars.

 

**** that noise. Be magnanimous. Let them believe in their misconceptions. The car that doesn't stoop to racing V6 turd buckets is the king of the road. Don't show them it's slow, they'll never know any different. Think blue hair in a shiny new Corvette.

 

Again, the discussion started about a electric swapped third gen. How many are going to daily that ?

To go further down the rabbit hole, my "daily driver" averages about 2,800 miles a year. So in 20 years it will have ~56,000 miles on it, which is nothing to a modern engine. How would a battery pack sitting around idle for long periods fair over that same amount of time ?

Assuming an average 20 mpg divided into 2,800 miles a year works out to 140 gallons of fuel per year. Fuel is ~$2.00 here on average (in normal times) so that's $280/year. x10 years $2,800 in fuel.Now add in the fact that I still need to be able to haul a trailer, have 4wd to navigate the logging road to my rural propety, access the range at my friends farm or just the fact that I enjoy "overlanding" and trail riding.

Again, not seeing the value proposition of an electric, especially when you start adding complexities of needing to have a home charging solution and access to nearby "fast charging stations" which aren't fast at all. A quick look at chargepoint show the closest station is almost 30 miles away whereas a gas station is less than 10 and I can utilize the amazingly high tech device called a gas can and take that power with me.

Electric seems to work for you. Great, keep on rocking in the free world. But your anecdotes don't equal the reality in my situation.

 

Those asking where the third gen content is need to think about the title. The title is asking us why we don't think a 14 second car is fast anymore. Inferring the third gen is still 'fast'.

Several examples come up at the bottom of this thread in the "related topics"

Its not the first time the question is asked, and it won't be the last. But the further we get away from the 80's, the 'slower' thirdgen's will be considered by the general populous.

I had friends who had similar mind sets to those of you who consider 14's fast. He would talk about how my GTA was fast, but his mid/late 70's stock vette he had was 'fast' too. And now matter how much faster my third gen was compared to his old smog era vette, the vette was still 'fast' because he colored it with the smog of nostalgia rather than looking at the current state of affairs.

So my Opinion is that Thirdgen's are not fast, not anymore. At one time they were some of the fastest things Detroit could build, but in todays terms, and in the future, I will only consider them slow, and getting slower.

 

What's funny is that a 1976/77 'vette was mid 16s for a 1/4 mile time just looking times up online. A 1990 Beretta could beat that, provided all of them didn't make it to the crusher say 15-20 years ago. My Astro Cargo would have had an almost identical power to weight ratio (if not slightly better) if it was optioned as a CPI Engine. Which vehicle was quicker would have strictly come down to options (they put 245 tires as an option in the early 90s too)

 

Those CPI 4.3s were no joke. I had one in my 87 4x4 2 door S15 Jimmy to replace the 3.4 I had in it. 3.73 G80 rear. With a stock 94 4L60E behind the 4.3. I put milled and ported stock heads with 2.02/1.60 valves, factory LT4 1.6 full roller rockers (worked perfectly on the net lash 4.3s)on the 4.3, shorty headers, 2.25 pipes into a dual in/single 3" out cat and a single 3" muffler. With little PCM tuning it was quick in 4 high and I think it could have gone up a brick wall in 4 low.

I had a friend that had a high output TBI Astro van and it was a solid runner. Those used a hotter cam (CPI cam was the same IIRC), bigger Y-pipe and 305 injectors. Were rated around 190 hp from memory.

 

If they would have made the Syclone with CPI heads and cam grind+the turbo parts to match I'm convinced it would have easily been over 400hp in 1991. TBI vs CPI was roughly a 45hp difference in an M-van before boost even. If they could have gotten a transmission to hold up behind it.

The "B" VIN Astros (4.3 TBI HO) used a 202/213 .385/.414 lift cam in them I think is kind of like the HO V8 cams. Still very much not the peanut cam. The CPI setup was a 208/208 with .432 lift at the valve. I mean flat out radical for the era and application IMO.

 

I am convinced you are right. A lightly built CPI 4.3 engine with a blow through carb and a centrifical supercharger would be a fun little engine for a 3rd gen with a T56 behind it.

 

I started out with a plan to buy the electric motors to put into my 66' Mustang. By time I got done calling and getting the batteries and parts it ended up being $30K. So I just bought a Tesla P3. All I can say is until you buy or own an electric car or hybrid is not to misunderstand or dog them. I have had nothing but hot rods newer and older along with bikes. Until I rode in a Tesla I was not convinced either. But I will tell you this with VMT becoming the new calculation to determine impacts to air quality for the purposes of reducing GHG emissions. More and more cars will become electric or electric hybrids. The technology is here and the one thing COVID has done positively is back the science up regarding how quickly some conditions in the environment can improve, such as ozone improving 20% in the last month because of shelter in place. I'm so concerned about batteries taking over that I'm picking this gem up today in case they aren't available again. Have to keep the Tesla though because I can't sell it right now. But the Tesla has been a fantastic car and far exceeded my expectations and is mind blowing to everybody that rides in it and gets pushed back in there seat in silence..cops don't know your coming either. Anyway here is the new addition. BTW I used to be an electrician so I purchased all of the wire at Lowe's to wire up my up for a 240v home charging station...for which PG&E reimbursed me $895.

 

I guess it would be prudent to buy stock in companies that produce extension cords. There are going to be miles of them running out of trailer park and apartment windows all across the nation.

 

Not too sure about that but maybe. Plenty of extension cords at Lowes and Home Depot. My charger sits on a wall with 240v 60amp running to it. There are 240v RV extension cords for dryer outlets that charge at 30 amps, so any trailer with a dryer outlet can charge when needed (not every day). Plus more and more charging stations are being constructed. Although it is possible to charge a Tesla with 120v 12smp extension cord, it takes about 2.5 days to charge up to 315 miles from 0...or approximately charges at 5 miles per hour. At 240v 60 amp it charges at 45 miles per hour. Supercharging charges at 480-600 miles an hour and kind of tapers off as it gets closer to a full charge. So while traveling if one has to stop it takes about 15-50 mins to charge up depending on how low the battery is.

My friends with Hybrids plug into 120v and get 35 miles on battery under 55 mph, when it switches over to gas it can charge the battery too. No extension cord necessary if doing it that way.

 

Speaking of 'slow' cars. I went on a Sunday Corona cruise yesterday.

My car was the SLOWEST car there. There were only 3 cars out of 20+ making less than 500whp. Everything else was a nitrous or boosted v8 beast. Whipple'd GTs, Hellcats with pulley/fuel upgrades

In the under 500 category, we had a bolt-on Golf R DSG, a Lexus ISF, and myself in my stock Focus RS bringing in the rear with only 350 crank HP. I could hang with the ISF and the Golf R. But everything else? They might as well have gone to plaid.

 

12.14 1/4 mile

 

Yeah RIGHT...

 

I would not say it could not run that number. Look at what Lawrence Tolman did with his ECSB truck. It has a turbo 8.1 in that body style on 20 psi of boost. Something like 1,200 ft/lbs.

That being said my 6,500 lbs Express conversion van is in the upper 13s with a naturally aspirated small block. It ran a 17.3 stock. Boosted LS engines drastically change the ball game.

LT's truck

https://youtu.be/qwX87aLxxcs

https://youtu.be/q_CRCT6kQQE

I have also seen that body style suburban Duramax swapped. My neighbor across the street has a Duramax swapped Hummer H2. The Hummer rolls out. It is stupid fast. I have also realized racing at the track its some guy that dumped tons of money in a 3/4 ton 4x4 diesel truck thats lifted on 37s that is going to spank your street car.

 

Yeah anything with a 5.3-6.0 ls could be a sleeper these days. My buddy dailys a shortbed single cab pickup that has a stock 5.3 with a mild cam and turbo. It runs high 10’s

 

Yeah. Just about anything could surprise what was once considered a "fast" street car.
When my IROC first went 12's, my chassis shop friend was impressed enough to comment. But that was 20 years ago. Now today, the guy beside me in a Cadillac, with his significant other in the passenger seat, golf clubs in the truck and AC on Arctic freeze, can easily end up taking my lane.
Unless of course, I tree him at the stoplight. I would say the standard today would be solid 11's and is something truly streetable. Even better if NA but that's where the line is very distinctly drawn.
​​​​​​

 

I agree that 11 second 1/4 mile times are the minimum for a "fast" car in the modern era. Stock C8 Corvettes on street tires are low 11s off the showroom floors now. Modern horsepower per dollar is cheap, and modern radial drag tires have changed the game on traction without back halfing a car. Couple this together with some decent control arms and shocks, it's a recipe for quick times with not much more than a quick tire change and the turn of a couple ***** on the shocks.