I recently purchased a motor that was supposed to be a 350 small block. the casting number for the block is 3970010 which is listed as either a 327 or a 350.

The heads have casting number 3782461 which is listed as a 327.

How can I verify 350 vs 327?
Are these heads any good?

Looking to do a mild buildup - currently has headers, torker intake, 600 cfm carb and a cam that is way too big for the motor.

Any suggestions?

 

Well I guesss you have several choices. You could either pull the pan and get the casting number off of the crank. Or you could measure the travel of the piston. Or you could put the number 1 cyl at BDC and fill the cyl with water, measuring how much you put in. Then muliply that by 8 and see what the displacement is. I would get the numbers off the crank though, if it were me. Looks like you may have an old 350 with double humps on it, or a LJ 327.

 

461 heads are old camel humps I thought.
This is an ancient motor eh?

You'd need to check the stroke to know if it's a 327 vs a 350. Take the intake off and throw it away, take the heads off and measure the stroke of the piston. 3.25" = 327, 3.5" = 350 (or thereabouts.). You can use a ruler for this one.

Swap out the cam, do some head work, and you might be laughing.
Do those heads have accessory bolt holes?

 

Heads do not make or identify CID. On Chevy small blocks, they all interchange. Thos esame heads could be stuck onto a 262, a 305, a 400, a 327, or any of the other sizes.

They were good back in the mid 60s. The best stock heads there were, back then. They have long since been superseded however.

The worst thing about them though, is that they lack the accessory mounting provisions that cars made since about 1969 have required, ncluding these. So, basically, tehy can't be installed, unless you want to spend ALOT of money on aftermarket brackets, otr do without an alternator and power steering.

A 350 and a 327 are the same from the outside. The thing that makes them different is the crank. There aren't many 327 cranks that will fit that bock, so I'd guess odds are about 99% that it's a 350. Not quite certain, but pretty freaking likely.

Get rid of the heads, cam, and intake; and once you get heads that you can use, pick the other parts to go with them. Vortec heads (96-up truck) might not be a bad choice at this point.

 

Everybody seems to be against the intake as well. Whats wrong with the intake?
Will check the crank tomorrow.

What kind of heads / intake combo would anyone recommend?

 

The Torker is a very outdated intake design. Its not a 'bad' intake, I used one myself for a few years, but there are MUCH better options out there and SBC 4bbl intakes are so cheap theres no reason not to get a modern one.

I changed from the old Torker to a Performer RPM intake, and it made a pretty big difference. The top end power was about the same, but the RPM made noticeably more low speed torque. The Torker is fine for an engine running at 3000+rpm most of the time, but below that it just makes the engine feel 'soggy' whereas the RPM doesn't have that problem.

As for heads and intake - my intake reccomendation is above. The RPM is one of the best 'all around' manifolds out there. As for heads - what do you want the motor to do? daily driver, race car, street/strip, etc...?

 

If this is a mostly or entirely street car, look at Vortec heads (from 96-up trucks & vans), a Performer RPM intake, and a Comp XE262 or Lunati 60101 cam. Use a Q-Jet such as from Edelbrock, or a Holley 6210. Avoid Edelbrock carbs other than their Q-Jet.

Doesn't matter if it's a 327 or a 350; this combo will work fine regardless.

 

The "Torker" name is a misnomer. The intake is for high RPM usage. You wouldn't want this in a car with an automatic. Also, if it's a 327 you might want to check/swap the cam unless you like torque curves that look like pikes peak.

 

The car will be a daily driver with about every other weekend at the track.
Sounds like all agree on the RPM intake.

The motor goes to the shop tomorrow. Decided I do not have the time to put into it right now. Plan now is to just have the heads rebuilt as is. And yes they do not have the accessory holes for the alternator and AC.

Any one know where I can pick up some Vortec heads?
Any recommendations on a distributor?

 

Summit sells vortec heads, stock and modified for higher lift cams. SPDC (scoggin dickey) sells them as well.
Be aware your intake manifold needs to be a VORTEC RPM one. Not the normal RPM.
Or if you want to buy the heads local, phone up your local auto wreckers and ask if they have '96+ trucks, with the 350. Tell them you want the heads. The first wreckers may at least be able to tell you which wreckers in town would carry those, ie. have those vehicles in the yard.

Keep in mind the price of them new isn't too high, so don't let them try to rip you off. I wouldnt' pay more than 50-60% of the price of new ones. Remember that used ones may need to be decked, or have new guides installed - $200 or so.

The proform or summit HEI is about $99-$130 range. Get one with an adjustable vacuum advance can. I just put a coil and module into my JY one, but coil, module, adjustable vac can, cap and rotor, shim kit, and you're over the price of a new one. Doesn't really make any sense to me now....

 

To determine the stroke of the engine with the heads and oil pan on just stick a long straight length of coat hanger or welding rod down the spark plug hole, pointing down to the bottom of the cylinder.
Turn the crank until that piston is at the bottom of its stroke. BDC.
mark the wire rod right where it exits the spark plug hole. Turn the crank over 1/2 turn till the piston is at the top TDC. Again, mark the wire rod. Pull it out and measure the length between your two marks.
3.25" -=327 3.48" =350ci

If the cam is too big, get a new one. Or make the engine and chassis work with the big cam. (compression ratio, converter stall, rear gear ratio) The torker intake needs a big cam, big compression, high stall converter and big rear gear.
It wants to run in the 3000 to 6500rpm range and is a bit peaky compared to a dual plane manifold.
A performer RPM or other modern hi rise dual plane is better overall.

Custom aftermarket engine brackets that allow mounting '69 and later (long WP) engine accessories with early pre 1969 cylinder heads.
http://www.alangrovecomponents.com/
You can use your 461 heads with these brackets.

I would consider power steering bracket#402L and alternator rear bracket #219R-ALT combined with the other two stock upper+lower post 1969 long WP GM alternator brackets. A bolt hole in the end of the cylinder head is not required.

Your 461 heads will give very good performance especially with a bit of home porting to wake them up.

If you'd like suggestions on engine build up combos that will work with what you have or with some changes, elaborate on what its going into and how you'll be using it. What cam grind is in it now?

 

Yes I would love suggestions on engine build up combos.
I do not know what cam is currently in the motor. The motor is going into a 1969 Nova. Has 4:11 gears, t350 with a 2500 stall. Will be driven on the street daily but on the track on the weekends. Currently has a new Edelbrock 600 carb.
Desire would be around 350 hp.

Any suggestions would be welcome.

 

'69 Nova eh? How did those cars do the alt/pwr steering before the days of cylinder head bolt holes? couldn't you just use the factory mounting system?

This should be a "fun" combo alright. Something like the xe268he would work pretty good with that stall speed. That's a light car, you might be able to step up to the xe274he since you have the tall gears.
That carb wouldn't be my first choice.

And wait, last I checked a '69 Nova isn't a third gen camaro, so I think you're in the wrong place. There are forums dedicated to your type of car, with guys who have more experience with the specifics of your car. Might be a good idea to migrate over to one of those eh?
I really wonder why people go to the trouble of registering and posting on the *wrong* car forum. I mean, you may as well have done this one a 4th gen forum, your answers would be littered with "why don't you get an LS1!!!", like here "why don't you get vortecs?!?"

 

Yeah I figured someone would say "Hey you are in the wrong place". But then again I have a camaro as well. Just happen to be working on the Nova for my daughter. And besides, motor questions have little to do with the actual car especially when the motor is out of the car!!!.

I do appreciate all of the great advise I have received on my motor questions.

 

oh yea, generic questions are no problem here
But just as an FYI, "we" (some of us) are more familiar with GM stuff in our generation range. ie. we don't know a lot about the camel hump heads, or how to mount the accessories without bolt holes, etc etc.

Are you able/willing to port up the 461's?

 

Pete: If you feel the cam is just too big for your purposes and after yanking it out it turns out to be so, Consider a cam like this Isky 270Mega cam.http://www.iskycams.com/timingchart....ng_chart_id=96
I would change the intake manifold reguardless, to a modern dual plane hi rise like the Performer RPM intake. There are lots of choices there.
As I mentioned doing some home porting on those heads will really wake them up. You can easily exceed 350 BHP yet retain full daily drivability with this combo. {Isky 270 mega+performer rpm manifold+home ported 461 heads}
Your carb will need fine tuning and your distributor will likely benefit with a performance recurve.
On the weekends you can drive it to the track, uncork it, bolt on some slicks or DOT sticky meats and click off easy solid 12sec ets.

http://www.kendrick-auto.com/462_chevy_head.htm
This before and after head flow comparision is very typical of what you can expect from a moderate home doable simple porting effort on your heads.