Lets see, on the internet in forums like this what is the major topic reasons we see daily.
People posting problems and asking for help!!
Of all the problems you've and others have seen listed tell me how many times ethanol has ever been even suggested as a reason for a particular problem?
According to some of these posts one would think it would have arisen before as a solution or part of a explanation. but it hasn't has it.
Then one would think that if it hasn't then a real problem of such really doesn't exist or is very rare a problem.

Well 200+ members are in the club I belong to. Many have multiple hot rods from the 20's to current. Then you have the masses which drive vehicles, many millions of them.

You'd think that with all these people running ethanol enhanced fuels and since sites like this deal with vehicle running problems, you'd see more focus on this issue wouldn't you??

So then why don't we??

And this applies to rest of what I have stated.
There are some that can see the real truth and others believing the marketing given to such a topic to re direct the truth.

 

MC305SS that was the exact point I was making except you expanded on it farther than I did.

 

I found out that in Michigan it is no longer required to display the 10 percent ethanol on the pump. I have been using it for years now. I would bet the same thing is going on in other states.

You see; it's easy to post information w/o being a jerk

 

I almost hate to chime back in here, but for those of you who don't think 100% gas is fake i present to you:

100% gas locations broke down by state

Please feed your animal the appropriate food. No filler, all killer!

 

 

i found this link to be interesting, but im sure someone will challenge its credibility.

http://e0pc.com/newreality.php

What i found even more interesting, is when i read somewhere that it takes the equivalent of 1.29 gallons of gasoline to produce enough ethanol to replace one gallon of gasoline at the pump.

do to farming equipment, fertilizer production, transportation, etc.

 

 

Ethanol gas destroyed my engine!!! It being a diesel has nothing to do with it tho

 

The equivalent of 1.29G of gasoline to make 1G of ethanol, eh?

How much energy does it take to refine even light-sweet crude into gasoline? How much energy does it take to pump the frac water into the wells, then pump it back out, then pump it to the hauler truck (since the treatment facilities aren't in the field)? Then how much diesel to haul every gallon of frac water to treatment? Then how much energy to run the aerobic systems used to treat the oily waste? Then how much more energy to pump (under substantial pressure) the treated water through the membranes? Then how much energy to pump (NOT drain) the almost clean water back into the ground?

Once the oil is out of the well (and all that energy has been used) how much energy to pump the crude to the pipeline or transport ship? Then how much to run the four big Yanmar diesels to push that crude halfway around the globe? Then to pump it off the ship? Then how much energy to pump it from the docksie or terminal facilities up the pipeline to a refiner? Then how much to pump from the refiner's equalization tanks to the cracking tower?

Then how much energy to heat the tower, cool the tower, clean the tower, pump off the distillates, and then to run the centrifuges to separate it? Then how much energy to haul off the still bottoms? Then how much energy to pump the product off the refining reservation? I could go on almost forever. Ever wonder why even the smallest refineries usually have at least TWO large electrical substations serving their power needs?

Then how much energy to pump the product up the pipeline, averaging about 150 times?

If one begins to analyze the costs of producing gasoline one might discover that it is also FAR from free. And the process uses a LOT of water that is essentially poisonous once it is used, and has to be pumped, trucked, treated, and pumped back into deep wells.

Where is the big environmentally friendly oil user now? You can DRINK the ethanol (if the government didn't force distillers to poison it with methanol). Try drinking the waste made from crude refining. Let me know where to send the flowers...

Don't even begin to try the losing argue of how much "greener" oil is than plant-based fuel.

 

Gas refined from oil is better than ethanol
Why?
Because I said so, thats why

Take your big block of cheese argument post and charge your batteries with it

 

Oh, well then... I digress. Pardon my ignorance on the topic. I didn't know that it was YOU that said so. Those other guys I wouldn't trust, but since it was what YOU said, that makes me feel better.

Suffice it to say that for the OP's problem, it's a fairly safe bet that he's had a pretty bad run of luck and is looking for some common root cause or reason. There may not be a single reason, but I'd wager lunch money that alcohol isn't one of them (unless it's the kind that doesn't go in the fuel tank).

I've seen and read these topics for many years, and other than the initial shock to the system on some pre-1985 vehicles which had years of full-on gasoline run through them, ethanol isn't a common denominator of all fuel system problems. The entire country of Brazil (almost the size of the U.S.) has used ethanol in all vehicles since the very early '80s with no more problems than the cars in Europe that used straight gasoline in that same period. In fact, in some areas of the overall engine and systems there were fewer problems, such as less coking and carbon contamination of anything touched by exhaust, longer lasting oil, and cleaner injectors.

Brazil is now on 85% or greater ethanol in everything. The last time I checked the large auto companies were still building and selling cars there with about the same design as those sold elsewhere.

I'll grant you that ethanol isn't the perfect solution. Then again, 100+ years of experience proves that gasoline isn't the ideal solution either.

 

WhO said fossil fuels were any greener?

The point is, is ethanol in any way efficient to produce?

Does farming equipment run on ethanol?
Do transportation vehicles run on ethanol?
Etc.

And another thing, if ethanol gets 62% of the milage that gasoline gets, why would you dilute gas with it?
And why would prices per gallon sky rocket?
Coincedence? (not trying to sound like a conspierency theorist, just honestly wondering)

And sorry to the OP for getting WAY off topic, but this debate is interesting.
And please, don't anyone get to heated.... It's not like any arguement we have is going to change anything.

 

Well at the very least, the State of Texas decided that if MTBE additives were made illegal, and they were, then they would require 10% ethanol to be added, for the suppesed purpose of reducing overall total emissions. At least were no longer spewing a chemical that has been proven to be highly poisonus. Glad the research was done to prove MTBE was safe before making its use a LAW!

 

I run the 10% crap in my DD 97 Blazer with no issues. Hell the station I buy it from (Quick Trip) guarantees if I have any fuel related problems they will fix it at their expense.

I WANT my Camaro to have every last HP i can get, so I will buy real gas.


In 10 years I will buy whatever fuel is mainstream for whatever my DD happens to be then, but I will still search out 100% gas for Ellie.

P.S. Vader, you are now my favorite person on this forum.

 

Actually, with E-85 in my unmodified 1996 Sonoma half-truck I lost about 11% in fuel mileage, not 38%. Then again, that was a relatively short-term test of only six years and about 46,000 miles of driving. I documented it heavily. I ran an average of 37.5% alcohol year round since August of 2004. My average mileage went from 22.13 MPG to 20.56 MPG. In the worst times (winter) I lost more than 11% in mileage, but during the entire test period the average loss was 11%. During the test the average cost for gasoline was $2.879 and E-85 was $2.219, so the average actual cost per mile driven went DOWN using E-85 from 16.7¢ per mile to 14.1¢ per mile.

I still have a log book in the half-truck with a lot of data to enter in the spreadsheet from the last year or more, but with fuel prices rising the cost difference is going to be even greater.



Maybe I should be buying Miller and Bud instead - It's almost cheaper!

I still use E-85 in it in summer, even though the half-truck was never designed to run it. I do notice more moisture in the exhaust on startup, but that doesn't last long.

If you want every last ounce of energy from your engine, put away the gasoline and run nitromethane (a.k.a., alcohol enriched). But I'm guessing you can't find that at the same places you get your 2L bottles of Coke and don't want to store $8 race fuel, so you are stuck with the common pump variety gas. In that case, bump the compression, either through static or dynamic means (or both), then run all the alcohol you want. You can recover all of what you lost by running alcohol in a non-modified engine and then some. About 12 miles from my house are a lot of sub 10-second door-slammer cars running alcohol in the fuel (¼ mile, not 1/8). You can run the intake a lot hotter (you almost have to with alcohol) and get away with it. You can run with a lot more ignition advance and don't need a super tight quench area. I'm guessing your region sees pretty warm temperatures, and alcohol is a natural there. Once it hits about 90°F here there is no noticeable difference in power between sub-100 octane gasoline and 85% alcohol enriched gasoline. At 10% ethanol, the difference is even smaller.

With a little adjustment you can make up for the "penalty" that everyone else is paying and make them wonder why you show them your tail lights.

Oh, and during the documented part of the test I did lose one injector. I doubt that was from ethanol since the others are still running. I'm guessing it has more to do with the 170,000+ miles on the truck than the fuel.

 

One of my favorites is a guy who claimed he never had flat tires until he put AMSOIL in the crankcase...

Ditto all that. It has been shown that you can produce 100% ethanol without any petroleum- or hydro-generated energy. We simply haven't been motivated to build the infrastructure for it. I would argue that the Federal government's involvement in alternative energy sources has impeded development. It also doesn't help that government subsidies to tobacco have kept that product of death being grown on land that would be better served growing a sugar-producing crop (other than corn - corn is still a poor choice).