Is any one using e-10 ethnol blend gasoline. How does your Camaro/Firebird run? Mine is a 305 TPI - Auto.

Thanks forthe info

 

I have never ran it, i was told by several gm mechanics that you cant use it in older cars. The car needs to be richned up in order to use it (due to it beign a hotter fuel) i guess thats the best way to put it. So if you have a newer car that can run it you wont be saving alot of money. Seeing how the motor is running rich its burning more fuel. I believe i got this right Im sure someone will chime in and correct me if im wrong.

 

E-85 is Ethanol fuel. Regular gasoline is allowed to be up to 10-15 percent Ethanol I believe now, so if you're running regular gas you may be running a 10 percent ethanol blend to begin with.

 

They do but I think what he is asking is can you run just ethanol. You can run it but you are going to have to make sure that your fuel lines can handle the alcohol in the fuel then you are going to have to make the computer to put more fuel in the engine. Because you need more of it to get proper combustion.

 

Well I thought the format was for the number after the E being the percent fo the fuel that is Ethanol. E-85 is 85 percent ethanol, so E-10 would be ... well, normal gasoline these days.

The OP needs to clarify what he meant.

 

Yes it does stand for the percentage of ethanol, but the ethanol in regular fuel can be up to a 10% mixture of ethanol. So you may be getting 10% or 5%. The only reason it is in there is to try to keep fuel prices down. But try is the key word there.

 

They switched to E10 from MTBE as an oxygenate in populated areas, that is why it is there it has nothing to do with the fuel price.

 

As the OP (original poster?) my question is -- is anyone using the E-10 Blend in their TPI 305 motor?

I know the E-10 -- E-85 relates to the % alky in the gas.

I also know that E-85 requires mods to the fuel system to allow for the corrosiveness of the alky.

The new "Flex Fuel" cars have sensor that tells the computer the mix of the fuel in the car and adjusts the injectors shot accordingly.

Hot Rod Magazine recently (within the last year) did an article on modifying to run E-85 or pure alky as a race fuel. I believe the article stated E-85 octane equivalent of 105.

Sorry so windy - but I was wondering about running the cheaper E-10 in the 85 Z28 -- that’s all

 

Well yes, but Im saying that you most likely have 10 percent Ethanol in your regular gasoline already. Congress passed some regulation permitting gasoline to contain up to 10 percent ethanol. If ethanol is cheaper than gas (usually is) they "water it down" with it to make it cheaper.

The only thing Im unsure about is whether or not Premium gets Ethanol in it. It might just be regular grade. Might want to ask the dudes at the station.

 

In Iowa, we have had "Ethanol" for years and years. I'd say over 25. On the gas pump, it states it is a blended fuel. The unleaded is 87 octane, the Gasohol is 89 octane. I have ran it for years and years and never had any mechanical problems. When it first came out, it did a great job of cleaning the fuel system, meaning, you had to change your gas filter up to 3 times a week. But after a while, everything got flushed out and things were normal. I have not done any mileage checks to compare the two, but friends have told me they get 1-2 mpg more with straight unleaded over gasohol. I run it all the time in both my TPI cars. #1 for slightly more octane, and #2 we get a tax break and the gasohol is cheaper than the unleaded. In your case, less mileage for a higher price might determine what you do. Like mentioned before, it is not guaranteed to be 10%, it may be more or less and will vary tank to tank. I have no reservations on running it in all 5 of my cars.

 

damn communists. its all their fault

 

Thanks BlueTA,

An honest answer to a simple question . . .

Tough to come by these days.

 

I ran E10 (gasahol) exclusively in the '57 and my other cars starting in 1982. Never had any problems with it.

It's harder to find E0 than E10. As stated, it's the oxygenate used in gasoline these days. Good luck trying to find out exactly how much it is, though. In Nebraska & Iowa, they push it pretty hard in an attempt to boost the corn market (terrible waste of cropland, there are better crops out there to produce the sugar).

I've been running E85 in the '57 since 2006.

 

I have had one carb. problem with E10-I ran it in my 78 Chevy Suburban 400 V8(quadrajet)-The problem I had is that it soaked into the composite floats and made them weigh more by doing this the float needle would not shut off the fuel and consequently the carb. continually flooded . I changed floats to brass floats-That solved the problem.I have a 84 Z28 HO .What material are the floats made of in its quadrajet?

 

If you travel anywhere in the central US (corn belt) you will have a very tough time being able to not run it (alcohol free fuel is very hard to find)....as stated the switchover started in the mid 80's but had a lot of problems because they would 90% fill a tanker with gas then dump in the other 10% alcohol so there were huge problems with very bad mixtures....by the early 90's it was "blended" in the refinerys with very good quality control and all the "problems" went away...

I do have to say that alot of the 600-900hp forced induction street cars around here are running the E-85

 

There are number of fuel stations in my area that sell non-oxygenated gas (no ethanol). The closest one to me, luckily, is a block from where I work. On the pump it states Classic Cars.

Theres a website I found once that lists stations that sell N/O gas. It's all I run in my car and my small gas engines.

 

3rd gen floats are a composite that is compatible with ethanol.

 

Here in Michigan, there used to be gas stations that had on the pumps: 10 % ethanol, but I haven't seen them lately. I use to avoid pumping this gas, but the same stations no longer have the ethanol stickers on the pumps.

I am concerned that the gas around here has ethanol, but we are not being informed anymore.

Ethanol = less mileage along with possible long term damage to the fuel system. It's a government subsidized sham.

 

http://www.drillnowhere.com/non-oxy-fuel.html

is N/O gas really only offered in WI and MN?

"For owners of vehicles using non-oxygenated fuel, these are gas stations that sell non-oxygenated (ethanol-free) gasoline in the U.S.A."

-quoted from the link above

 

Ya ,I remember that Stev---- Gas stations here in MI that sold gas with alcohol in it had it posted right on the pump(10%E)-That`s what I used in winters in my suburban(above post).Great gas line anti freeze but the floats did`t like it.
Anyone have a list of MI stations that have unmixed gas.I live in rural area where stations are not plentiful.***

 

My concern is that the gas at speed way where it was previously stated on the pump 10 percent ethanol, still has ethanol, but is no longer required to have that statement on the pump.?.

 

Not that big of a deal... Ethanol may be the long term solution to keeping our hot rods running after everyone switches over to electric cars and gas costs $15 a gallon. If you had a higher compression ratio you could take advantage of it more.

 

I`m not against gas- E- mix-(rises octane rating)-I use it in my 11:1 compression 409 even add a bit of booster--I`d just like to see the manufactures list the % of E in the gas or if it even has E.We certainly need all the help we can get to lower the importing of fuel.

 

My concern is fermenting corn into alcohol. It is government subsidized because it is cost prohibitive. Government subsidized means we the tax payers pay for it. I would be more for subsidizing drilling for oil, or just plain allowing drilling.

 

This is a very serious topic and one I have just shelled out repair bills resulting from ethanol 10% gas. Someone told me that Texas had made it a state law that all gas contain ethanol, but thankfully I've found that to be untrue. Unless there is false advertising or no more requirements for the pumps to state mixture percentages, I'm happy to find and pay the difference. I've found non-ethanol gas 93 octane does cost about as much as diesel fuel, but I've also just learned the hard way the long term and costly repair bills that result from use. Here's my experience:

Inherited a beauty(all stock) that had been garage kept for it's entire life. One original owner and 65,337 original miles. My Great Uncle did not drive or start the car much since 2004 as last service records shown. To get this baby back on the road, this work was done. Replace F/Pump, Strainer, F/Filter, Run Fuel system cleaner, and repair fuel meter. Also Replaced Hood Struts and Hood Supt. Then Fixed AC but had to convert from R-12 to R-134A. A/C Compressor Clutch area was greasy & the car was leaking oil and Refrigerant. So Retrp fit AC, R & R Compressor and Nec parts and flushed system. Front and Rear Sway bar bushings were rotted out, so replaced Front and Rear Sway bars.

Car was tip top! Ran it around and then on a half state road trip with refuels of gas containing ethanol (no choice but my dumb mistake), and had to garage it for about two months while working a job. Next, had to replace Fuel pump again after break down on return trip home. Perhaps another mistake leaving it unstarted with gas in tank for so long, but warrantied AC Delco Fuel Pump failure also could have been ethanol mixed gas?

Car ran fantastic once again! Three months later, Fuel pump goes out again after just having R & R Fuel tank, changed Fuel pump, changed shock, and changed Fuel filter. This time went to different mechanic and needed tow. Again R & R fuel tank, and put in another AC Delco Fuel pump. Car was back to tip top, but noticed whine and fuel pump struggling sometimes.

Made the stupid mistake of running Murphy's premium gas w/cleaner through the tank, and clogged Fuel Injectors. Very costly dealership repair of replacing all 8 fuel injectors, kits and gaskets. Ethanol gas still in tank with STP fuel injector cleaner, and pump started freaking out again. Ran some non-ethanol gas through there and burned it all out on another long road trip as close to fumes as possible. Stopped for more fuel and again 10% ethanol gas only 1/2 tank. Two days later, fuel pump whining and struggling again. Ding ding ding, light bulb finally goes off in my brain and realize the gas (though supreme or highest octane at pumps) has been my major malfunction. I found and join this glorious thirdgen family website and researched this topic.

I also found http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=TX as my new goto resource for finding non-ethanol gas whenever anywhere, and seriously hope not to spend anymore in repairs resulting from my fueling mistakes.

I'm happy to now be an owner of one of these great cars, and thankful I found thirdgen for research and advice. I've just passed 70,000 miles and want to keep my baby as stock as possible and as clean as my great uncle did.

 

is a great reference for finding N/O gas stations. im gonna remember that one.

thats much better then the one i posted and it answers my question...

thank you...

 

I get a kick at all this.
Its been over 10 years since they begin to use 10% ethanol and its now in 98% of the gasoline sold.
There on only a very small percentage of vehicles out there where this mix could cause some problems. Replacement parts now are made to handle this with very small percentage again of very old stock being available.
Yet people are still blaming this quiet switch for problems when they arise. Just about every car made since the late 70s can handle this fuel with no problem.
And you think since there is a list you will actually get non containing fuels at all times.
Do you actually think they ship in large quantities gasoline independently? And every terminal thats its shipped to actually has independant tanks for such a limited quantity?

Think again!!

 

maybe ill ask the owner of the sinclair station next time im in and find out.

they have to options. 87 oct with 5-10% ethanol, and 93 oct N/O. no diesal, no mid grade. having two seperate trucks and two seperate tanks doesnt seem that far fetched to me...

 

Sure you could, but why would you? 100% gas not sold in your area?

Gas has more energy potential than alcohol.
You wouldn't put water in your beer, don't put alcohol in your gas tank.

 

(Sin)ical, Is this the 91 tpi you had the problem with? How did you determine it was the ethanol that caused you fuel pump failures? Did you rule out a gunkie gas tank?

I am not doubting your problems, I have 2 small blocks that I am concerned about. I have no doubt that have been unknowingly running 10 percent junk in my cars, and
I am betting that the state of Michigan no longer requires the pump to say it contains it.

 

Ok, lets see if I can do this in simpler terms.

Here where I live as is the same for the rest of the country, you have terminals where fuel is stored for the local area.
You think when you go to Mobil your getting Mobil gas?
All our storage tank in this region say Griffith on them. There are many of them and they contain the same fuel in them. Only when you go to mid grade octane gas do they add the final mix in them that makes them89-91 octane etc.
The only difference you'll see is some contain diesel/kerosene which then coloring will be added for over the road usage and remain clear of home usage. The other will contain 10% ethanol gasoline in 2 blends, thats it.
But if you stand outside of the terminal and watch closely, Exxon, Mobil, independent truckers, BP and other trucks are coming and going. There getting it from the same tanks and mixing additives according to each companies ideals.
Yeah and supposedly according to those sites linked and others there are certain stations that sell 100% gasoline but yet their trucks are seen leaving the same yards.
Guess what, there is no separate tank for ethanol to add to the gas in these yards.

There was a time you go go to the local airport and fuel up with 100% aviation fuel also. The 110+ stuff used by smaller aircraft and now today they call it race fuel. 87 octane fuel loaded with 104+ octane boost is all that it amounts to!!!!!

Your just being told what you want to hear and then taking up the rear side as you leave. Thats the business climate today!!!!!!!!!

 

Thats a pretty sinical way of looking at things...

Apparently there still is "a time" because i can drive 2 miles down the road to Fleming Field (my local airport) and fill up on 110 oct.

 

I've been using 10% or higher blends since 1976. That's NOT a typo. It was available here since the bicentennial. I had ONE problem I could blame on running it. The 1967 Firebird I owned got a load of debris in the Rochester bowl after the ethanol cleaned out the ratty steel tank and plugged the filter. AS some of you will remember, when the old Rochesters got a plugged filter the fuel pump would overpower the filter spring and still admit fuel to the carb so as not to leave anyone stranded. Eventually, the main jets plugged completely and it was carb rebuild time. I also added an external fuel filter and changed it regularly, never again having problems.

In the numerous vehicles I've had since then (at last count about 27 I can recall), I've lost one fuel pump. I attributed that to moisture in the tank and a low voltage problem caused by poor connections at/near the tank. I use fresh fuel (E-10) and no additives. I will add about a half pint of 2-cycle oil to the cars I store over the winter along with Sta-Bil, but that is because I got tired of removing and cleaning varnished injectors.

I'd suspect you are either getting poorly blended fuel, poorly dried ethanol in your fuel, or other contamination. Blaming the ethanol for poor handling and untrained/unskilled blenders is about like blaming the cow for getting a poorly cooked steak at the Tornado Room, or better yet, blaming the corn that the cow ate.

 

Interesting responses. Which is it? I'd like to know! I've certainly spent some money with repairs, and I'd like to know why? Some nay sayers have different opinions as to why my problems and experiences have happened, and within this ethanol/non-ethanol thread I find interesting parallels. I have not replaced my gas tank, but it's been drained & cleaned a couple of times. This is not a fuel/green economy earth saving enviormental issue. It's an issue and question about what will keep our wonderful cars working and on the road. I'm sure it's obvious that I did not grow up with a mechanical guidance and repair advice lessons in cars. Nonetheless I do appreciate the folks who relate to these woes, and request more insight from those who feel it may be something else. According to the folks I've asked... ethanol is bad for older cars at least TPI. If there's something I should be aware of before finishing travel dates, then by all means let me know. My biggest concern is to finalize any repair cost necessary, and maintain this car as best as possible. I appreciate those who have advice to offer, whichever side they choose. But I'd also like to know if the fuel mixture is really a problem?"

 

I think there are plenty of posts here that give evidence that running a mixed gas isn't a problem, and they've made some very interesting and good points. That fact is, ethanol IS present in the vast majority of fuels available. How can it be so damaging and cause everyones problems then, especially when most don't even know it's there.

With that being said, the point I'm trying to get across is this: Isn't it better to run a higher octane, non-oxygenated fuel if it's availible and you can find it? HELLO... Isn't that a basic principal we can agree on?

 

Yes its cynical!!!

Well I know here if you know someone at a very small airport you can still get aviation fuel. Most here buy Cam2 gas, additives upon additives is all it is.

These companies are all about the money, plain and simple.
Do you think they give a rats *** about whether it contains ethanol or not?
Just look at cell phones and that business.
Those towers and other nonsense has been paid for, for years now.
To move the kind of data etc your using costs pennies in real life, they just have people hooked on these gimmicks and are ripping you off blindly. Most products are this way, your hooked, your gonna get what WE want you to pay for, the way we want it done etc.
Your only freedom is the choice to not use or buy these products, thats it.

Gasoline is no different. Just look at the pricing today for a clue.
There is no shortage, no delivery problems etc but just watch the next quarters profits!!

I don't like ethanol anymore than most do.
It can cause problems if it sits for a month or two, I know that, thats why I have sea foam and like products stock piled up.
Its not green in the least, it pollutes more and uses much more electric than refining crude.
I say take that corn and feed the worlds hungry and keep it out of our fuel until the day its actually needed, but I stuck with it, so I deal with it because while I will not own a cell phone until the last land line is taken down, fuel I do need and want to use!!

 

A conspiry theroist! Omg, I thought you guys were all gone!

Don't change a bit. I'm just going to step away now and leae you right where I found you.

 

So I'm a conspiracy theorist?
How about somebody that isn't brain washed.
Oil price has nothing to do with supply and demand for oil. It's the financial market for oil, filled with both professional speculators and amateur investors betting on poorly understood oil exchange-traded funds, who have ratcheted up the price of gas to such sky high levels.
The Libya deal which now is often the blame for pricing doesn't even begin to impact the world market. Saudi Arabia has more than once said it would make up for any shortfall since they are vastly under there production capabilities.
Crude in itself only yields less than 20% gasoline the rest goes into products we use everyday which is also gouged as far as our usage price.

Companies are out for one thing and one thing only. To separate us from our money and play both sides so there not the ones pulled into the fray and we will continue to either buy or protest their products. Yes they conspire for such dealings and hope alot of you think these are theories and not actual events.

 

Well, I am not about to choose sides on any issue regarding mechanical stuff. I have read about floats, fuel pumps, fuel injectors being damaged by the stuff. I have a carburated engine that has a float, a throddle body in an other, and both have fuel pumps. One has the fuel pump in the tank. If I have trouble with any one of these parts due to ethanol, I won't be a happy camper.

These parts fail due to age and use as well. I would just like to know if ethanol is culpable. Getting down to the truth of the matter is my objective.

 

I find this read interesting.


This is an interesting perspective on today’s “New” concern for the environment....

In the line at the store, the cashier told the older woman
that plastic bags weren’t good for the environment. The
woman apologized to her and explained, “We didn’t have
the green thing back in my day.”

That’s right, they didn’t have the green thing in her day. Back then, they returned their milk bottles, Coke bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, using the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But they didn’t have the green thing back her day.

In her day, they walked up stairs, because they didn’t have an
escalator in every store and office building. They walked to the
grocery store and didn’t climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time they had to go two blocks.

But she’s right. They didn’t have the green thing in her day.


Back then, they washed the baby’s diapers because they didn’t have the throw-away kind. They dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts – wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing.

But that old lady is right, they didn’t have the green thing back in her day.


Back then, they had one TV, or radio, in the house – not a TV in
every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a pizza dish, not a screen the size of the state of Montana . In the kitchen, they blended and stirred by hand because they didn’t have electric machines to do everything for you. When they packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, they used wadded up newspaper to cushion it, not styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, they didn’t fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to
cut the lawn. They used a push mower that ran on human power. They exercised by working so they didn’t need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she’s right, they didn’t have the green thing back then.

They drank from a fountain when they were thirsty, instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time they had a drink of water. They refilled pens with ink, instead of buying a new pen, and they replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But they didn’t have the green thing back then.


Back then, people took the streetcar and kids rode their bikes to
school or rode the school bus, instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service. They had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And they didn’t need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest
pizza joint.

It’s a crying shame that we didn’t have “the green thing” back then!


Ahh yes, we didn't need "the green thing" back then!

Green was invented by manufacturers and the wealthy after they invented "convenient" products. They now make money on both sides.

 

Like I said earlier, all replacement parts are now made to with stand ethanol.
The problem with ethanol fuel is that it retains water no matter how the distillation is done. That and it contains some particulates that eventually solidify and drop out of the fuel.

Thing here is to maintain a higher level of fuel filter changes, don't let the fuel sit and use dry gas type additives once and awhile.
Your better off running the fuel tanks out at the end of driving before storage than you are adding additives and letting it sit.

 

Your advise is good. I store my third gens over the winter with a mostly full tank of gas and I haven't had any problems... Yet. I use Stabil but that won't stop the moisture and separation from taking place.

BTW, that was a good essay on "green". I couldn't have said it better. Back in those days it was common sense stuff like toxins, and pollution which was real. The green people have run out of stuff, real stuff to take issue on, so the BS prevails.

 

So much misinformation and pure BS in this thread.....its coming back why I dont bother on here anymore wow!

 

They why did you comment? Just to get pissy with someone?

 

No, I commented so that the stupid cycle of repeating the staggering amount of hearsay, misinformation and BS that gets posted on the web by people with no clue might not happen with someone that doesnt know any better reading this thread and thinking that some of what has been said in here is factual in any way shape or form then repeating it thus continuing the cycle .

 

Then why don't you set us straight?

 

Because like I said before ...I learned that resitance is futile so I quit fighting that fight on the last internet educated generation.

On the other hand when you have several guys in the thread stating that they have been using thousands and thousand of gallons ethanol for 20-30 yrs on probably collectively 100's of vehicles with no problems one might assume that the problems that people are attributing to the ethanol might actually be other issues.

 

Someone brought up a thread that had been dead for over a year and a half, and now its had twice as many replies in the last two days than the original thread lasted.

 

lol good point missed that