BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

well just to throw it out there... yes 4th gens are nice buuut for what youll pay for a decent 4th gen that actually has *****, you can throw it into a 3rdgen and ditch the crappy styling, i spent 3 hours helping a friend do his plugs and theyre a nightmare! 3rd gens are on the border of technology and ease of working on, yes we got stuck with the crappy TBI but atleast i can do my plugs in 15 mins lol i spent 1900 on mine and its the best money ive ever spent, doesnt matter if theyre show quality or got a few miles on em people look and its nice, people see a 4th gen and go ok...woo now that the new camaros are out theyre old news unless youve done some serious high dollar modding to them, but 3rd gens just have a classic look and feel to them, plus you can pull off some crazy stuff with them, im in the process of doing a full LS2 swap, good looking car with a setup that will rape a 4th gen couldnt ask for anything more!

as far as the tranny goes it doesnt really matter, a v8 will be beat on regardless, the only difference is the manual is a heck of alot easier to work on, as opposed to the auto where if it blows youre done, lookin for a new one, personally id take a manual over an auto but im a do it yourself guy and ive rebuilt my tranny and done the clutch in it before, and ive also tried to fix my friendsauto GTA... epic fail there so thats just my personal experience

the best way to approach any old car is to assume the worst and end up with something better ( kinda like my sig) it sounds horrible but its true, if you own a thridgen sooner or later you will be working on it, and honestly its a labor of love, ive driven my car in all conditions, intense heat (arizona woo) torrential downpour/ flooding, snow, you name it ive done it and honestly its not any worse than it is in any other car...except the flash floods thats a PITA with such a low ground clearance lol

you have so many more options with a 3rd gen and youve also got 20+ years of people doing trial and error so youve always got someone to help, that and its a great feeling when you take a mustang in a car you built with your own hands

P-ROC

iTrader: (2)

I am pretty far past school and I am still suffering the effects from the "my car needs to be cool bug". Nothing wrong with that. Besides, too many details in this forum. Both the cars you are looking at are old and will require attention... Get which ever one satisfies your "cool bug" more. Besides they're both Camaro's. Also, IMO, Big Block is not an option for a daily driver anyway. I do agree about getting a v8 though, otherwise you will just wish you did.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

whoooa time out i went to college and made it just fine with my camaro, it went from "im gonna get this part next cuz im living at home with mom and dad" to ok just gonna get my oil changed and keep up on repairs" then when you get a good chunk of change saved or you get a tax return, some kind of money take that nice part youve been wanting and pick it up, the "cool car bug" didnt have much to do with it for me lol i had a del sol before this it was more of a "dont wanna look gay anymore cuz my dad just bought me the most feminine car on the lot...bug" lol

Drew

iTrader: (58)

So how's the weather in Oklahoma today? Looks like 20*-ish with 3-6" of snow, potentially ice, a winter weather advisory...

"WILL CAUSE TRAVEL DIFFICULTIES. BE PREPARED FOR SLIPPERY ROADS"

If you're driving a Camaro, Firebird, or Mustang... This means you.
3-6" of snow with some wind usually means drifts high enough that the snow dragging on thirdgen floorpans is greater then the traction between the tires and the ground.

So take today as an example... If the conditions potentially make driving one of these rear wheel drive performance cars dangerous. Would you mind the inconvenience of calling a friend to get a ride or walking? Or how would you feel about faded paint, rust, letting your "new" car be exposed to the elements? I can tell you for a fact that daily use means wear and tear, ie the car will degrade.

Just sharing some thoughts I had flipping through channels and seeing the news talk about how bad the weather in OK is today.

grassyflats

no stock 4th gen Camaro V6 can win a race
against a 3rd gen L98
what are you thinking?
he was comparing L98s and LS1s
saying the 3rd gen will win to 50 mph
then the 4th gen will take over in the long run
but with the third gen you can build it easier
then no 4th gen could take you even in the long run
get an automatic !!!
you cant get a Z28 with the L98 and a clutch
you would have to build one out of a manual RS
I have a good RS for sale here in Kentucky
a 1991 3.1 V6 great gas mileage 90,500 miles auto
an excellent engine with excellent mileage ttops
could use some paint -she is arctic white
this is the one you want for a build
you could drop in a LS1 and she will bolt right up
to the 700 tranny-am i incorrect guys?
she has alot of new parts already $4000
besides how are you gonna pay for college and all that
extra gasoline-its a recession-i am selling her cause
i need the money! i am still totally in love with her

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

were suppose to get the nasty snow storm here late tonight : (... oh well i guess i can walk to work....i only live less than a mile from it anyways....

OSU Lemon

The weather here in Oklahoma is laughable by New York standards (where I moved from to go to school here), but since Oklahoma has about two snowplows for the whole state, none of the roads are drivable.

I won't be too concerned about the car breaking down or being undrivable as long as I live on campus or close enough to ride a bike to. Same goes with a summer job. As long as it's close, I can ride a bike.

You're going to have to bear with me on the technical side of things...I'm more of a motorcycle guy, and I'm having a heck of a time figuring out what you guys are talking about when you mention L98's, LS1's, T5 and 700K4 trannies, etc. Google and wikipedia are my friends right now....

Scorpner

iTrader: (4)

I didn't read every reply and I was just stepping out, but I do have to say that as far as ride quality goes, many of these cars are past their prime and have most likely have had the springs, shocks and other components replaced by now. I'm not sure how many have taken this into consideration. There were versions with softer suspension with ride quality in mind, but I doubt many that have replaced suspension parts did so also with ride quality in mind. It is a heavier car than most on today's roads and that alone is an advantage when taking this into consideration. It also has excellent aerodynamics contributing to reduced wind resistance and less handling issues. There was also a deluxe carpeting package that included a substantial amount of rubber insulation that many may have removed by now.

Also many of the rattles and noises can be addressed in various ways including SFC's, adding insulation, checking and tightening bolts, screws etc. as well as securing the metal rods for the door latch and locks. There is a tech article addressing this as well. The handles on my '85 are as good as new and the doors shut solid, my '86 has many rattles and the handles are worn out. It's a night and day difference.

I don't hesitate to drive my Thirdgens as daily drivers and they're not as comfortable as my '96 Bonneville with the large cushy seats but I accept the superior performance and responsiveness over the later. Yes, FWD is an advantage for winter driving, but driving a Thirdgen during the winter isn't where it's at anymore. I don't see the 700r4 as being any more complicated than a FWD vehicle and a lot easier to remove. The SBC engine and T350/700r4 have been around for decades as the bread and butter for GM including the light truck industry. IMO Thirdgens have been very reliable are easier to work on than FWD vehicles and offer a great platform for improving performance as well as having lots of cargo room. I've even loaded a screen door in the back and was able to shut the hatch. Another time I removed the T-Top to bring a tall plant home. I use and drive them every day when I can, and have found them more capable and easy to work on than many give credit for.

grassyflats

you said it and I agree
you know-I never even wanted to drive one
I gotta 91 RS 3.1 for sale 90k auto ttops

Gumby

You never drove a 305 TBI 3rd gen then

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

to be honest i think the ls1 styled trans am ws6 with the ram air hood and the high rise spoiler looks bad ***...... that probably the only 4th gen i like (looks wise that is)

grassyflats

i do not see how your statement relates to what you quoted me saying
oh I see- anyway we were talking L98s or 350s or LS1s
no never drove a TBI 305
yeah i guess a 4thgenv6 would crush a 305tbi
had an 86 5.0tpi
an 88 5.7tpi
gotta 3.1 EFI for sale

MTXaudioSYSTM

ls2 swap? thats nasty!

and i have a l98 and wish it were manual =[

Patrol32

Well, the reliability / liability thing scares me, big time, and I hate the feeling I got from someguys on this thread, that, regardless of how much you pay on a Thirdgen F-body, and regardless of parts you replace, you will always be working on it, or fire fighting in some form. I think this is a huge subject of debate. You see, all of us want a V8 toy to play with and have fun, the issue is, when you're not being able to guarantee of reaching point B, is just not fun, at least if it's very frequent. I heard that GM made more than 90 million SBC units, for more than 40 years. And I know the Thirdgen F-body platform, is very well built and a revolution in sports cars in the 80s and early 90s. I do understand the fact that a '92 GTA will never be as reliable as '92 Corrolla or a Civic, but how would it do against the Japanese rivals (ie, 300Z TT, Supra, Skyline and 3000GT)...I know these cars can be a lot of fun, and with little more pounds of boost they can have serious power, the question is how would the F-body thirdgen do in reliability against these imports.

Fun+ Reliable = A lot of fun
Fun+ Not reliable = little fun
Not Fun + Not reliable = well, you figured

Note : I didn't mention the Fox body to compare with in reliability, cause I know it's crap

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

uhm wear and tear? our cars have for the most part gotten the crap kicked out of em lol wear and tear is a given

AND YES! 305 TBI is an epic fail in the thirdgen world lol lets slap a truck FI system onto our sports car and slap an extra injector on it BRILLIANT! lol not to knock my camaro or anything but....well ive put up with it for 3 years ive got crap talkin rights lol

fact of the matter is if theres a type of weather thats undrivable well...i dont think the news puts out a "No thirdgen Fbody Advisory" lol its just undrivable period so its up to you at this point but given the fact that this thread took off you can obviously see the 3rd gen following


and just to break it down;
L98 - 350 motor, tuned port injection fuel
LS(X) - LS series of motors that came in thru the 90s+, LS motors replaced the small block platform
T5 - 5 speed manual tranny, good for a 5.0, hook it up to a 350 or higher and expect a grenade (heated debate around here)
T56 - 6 speed manual tranny, good match with the LS motors
700R4 - Auto tranny, comes matched with a 350 normally in an IROC or GTA
4L60E - (dont flame me i think thats wrong) 4th gen auto tranny i think its electrically controlled or somethign

youll pick up on them eventually, theyre easy and as much as people complain about working on these cars i havent done ANY major repairs in a little over a year and i use mine for a daily driving about 120 miles a day these cars are a labor of love, you give and give and eventually youll get back from them its just a matter of your determination, and if it reaaaalllly pisses you off, rip out the guts and throw in an LS1/T56 BAM problem solved!! lol

itsMikey

i have my GTA and my dad has a 98 T/A...i can firmly say that i think the 3rd gens looks are better but in performance...the 4th gen takes the cake..well..at least for us..he has a slp rear mount turbo xP (cheater) haha...but overall...id take a 3rd gen over a 4th gen 360 days of the year...the others are up for grabs xP

OSU Lemon

Thanks for the info, Blu. That clears up a lot.

What should I be steering clear of? I heard some unsatisfaction about the 305tbi engine...what models had that?

tazzy101

Hi! This is my first post here. To this day, I still have a great love for a car that never became mine. My mom had to trade it in after 14 years in our family for a red (so not hot ) Corsica at the time. We had a beautiful 1983 Berlinetta Camaro that was peuter on the outside (and glossy) and dark brown on the inside. We took really good care of it. The only problem that my mom could not fix was that it around the 10th year, it started to overheat. As a single parent on a fixed income, she had to do something quick. So, she sold what she had promised would have been my car (that I loved so much!!!). I cried but accepted the fact that I knew this was something that was against us.

Later on, I got back at that Corsica and traded it in for an Impala myself (something I knew would be good). Only to find out a few years later that a Camaro was going to be out on the market soon (dang!).
So my goal for the time being is to try to finish college and eventually get a Camaro back in the family again.

I did run a search on my old Camaro. I found it out in Brownwood, Texas. The DPS officer told me not to go looking for it cause he had heard a lot of bad stories about people who had loved their old cars. Well, I ignored him and went on out there. My old car had been stripped to the nine's and was sitting up on concrete blocks out on a desert farm. The hood, tires, most of it was gone. I was going to ask the guy who bought it if I could buy it for the same price he had paid for it; but forget that now.
I do hope I learn a lot from this site. I don't know if there are any Camaro club meetings or parties. I am still new to this kind of stuff. But I do know that finding that exact same model has been a pain in the rear for the last several years now. The only restored 1980's Camaros I have seen are in the $20,000+ range. That is ridiculous. It's not like it's a 1960's car (I could see that kind of price if it were). I just want a car that I don't have to do a lot of restoration to. Does anybody have any ideas?
Sincerely,
Tazzy101

SSC

As far as being reliable there are alot of TGO members pushing the same number mileage wise as most of the imports of the same age. Only difference you buy a honda to drive from point a to point b you buy a sports car to enjoy the drive from a to b. The only reason most of the people here break things is because most of our cars arent stock by any means. Apples to apples you going to get more reliability after moding a V8 chevy compared to any import and thats a fact.

As far as working on the car in general I havent touched my engine except for oil changes since I built it 2 years ago. I only pop the hood to check the fluids once in a great while and I drive it 125+ miles a week in rain or snow. My car does great in the snow as long as I dont push it. It will go and stop with no problems except at the bottem of hills.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I don't see how a 92 GTA is at any disadvantage on a reliability scale compared to a Corolla or Civic. Let's be realistic, those imports weren't built any better and haven't been treated any better. People bought those cars to do the everyday grind. Do you think they're as religious about oil changes and preventive maintenance as someone who went out and bought the absolute most expensive Firebird they could obtain in 1992? Come on now. Forget the hype. Old cars are old cars. Just because one is an import doesn't mean it's going to be more reliable.

Here's my quickie "Thirdgen Buyers Guide"...

Do you want performance or reliability? If you want day to day reliability, performance be damned, you get yourself a fuel injected V6 or a throttle body injected car. These are the base model engines. 130-170hp. Avoid carbs. First the carbed cars are 23 years old, second they aren't as user friendly.

Look at the VIN numbers. The 8th digit is always the engine code. S is a 2.8 fuel injected V6, T is a 3.1L fuel injected V6, E is a 305 TBI, F is a 305 TPI, 8 is a 350TPI.
As you add performance, you increase the chances the cars been beat, and you decrease traction, and day to day reliability. An VIN 8 car is a lot more fun on dry pavement, but just about useless in ice/snow, etc. A VIN S, T, or E will be much less prone to spinning in snow, they usually came with narrow 15" tires, softer more comfortable suspensions, etc. The only downside is that anything faster then a minivan makes a S, T, or E car it's bitch.

If you want performance, there's no question that you want a VIN 8 car (245hp in it's prime). Now some may argue that the VIN F car with a 5spd and the performance axle ratio (230hp in it's prime) is almost as fast, but just about universally the world of auto enthusiasts agree the 350 is a much better performance platform. Also, for every 1 VIN F car with the 5spd and performance axle ratio, (230hp) there are about 10 without the performance axle ratio (205hp). There is no mystery when it comes to the VIN 8 cars, they've all got the higher horsepower rating. The only downside is the VIN 8 required an automatic transmission. But hey, no sweat because you don't want a T5 anyway. Swapping from a T5 to a T56 is just as annoying as swapping from a 700R4 to a T56. Moving on...

1987 was the first year for the VIN 8 350 TPI, and the first year the VIN F 305 TPI was available with a 5spd. In 87, the 305 was only rated at 215hp, and the 350 was rated at 225hp. Through the course of production, those horsepower ratings climbed. The numbers peaked in 1990 and stayed at 230hp and 245hp until the end of production in 1992. 1989 was only 5hp off, so you can pretty much group them with the 90-92 cars. Pontiac also marketed the Firebird with a 5hp loss compared to the Camaro, don't take it seriously, the engines are exactly the same.

What does this mean?

For absolute bang for your buck, you want a 1989-1992 350 TPI. That means Firebird Formula, Trans Am, GTA, IROCZ, Camaro Z28, and Camaro RS B4C (hard to find). The same cars were also offered with the 305/5spd, and in some cases the 305 TBI, so watch the VIN numbers.

For reliability and comfort, you're looking for a base model, or maybe a Formula or Iroc with the 305 TBI. They'll usually start and run, and won't have enough power to get in trouble. They've still got the look, if not the performance.

The wild card in all of this, is that anything that's been beat, is probably going to crap-out on you more often. A pristine, unmolested, abuse-free, 92 Z28 with a 350TPI may well be more reliable then a beat up 92 RS with a 3.1L V6. But that Z will probably be dead in the water on it's mostly bald Z rated 50-series tires the first time it rains heavily, snows, or there's an ice storm.

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

i know this doesnt help much but in north carolina we have 4 inches of snow and ice here...... just got off work...... i burnt out at the foodlion parking lot... all my co workers know what i have and i gave them a show lol....... but my engine/tranny/rear-end has been completely gone through......

OSU Lemon

Amazing info. That's exactly what I needed.

Here are a couple ads that I found that might fit what I'm looking for...just for research purposes.

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/1563058910.html

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/1562660797.html

Would this be a 305 TBI? Or could it be either a TBI or TPI?

http://tulsa.craigslist.org/cto/1550814727.html

http://stillwater.craigslist.org/cto/1562568693.html

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

that would be TBI, TBI isnt bad but its just that this was the SPORTS CAR for gm, second to the corvette that is, and they put a truck fuel injection system on it lol TPI has a plenum, looks like a shoe box, its got an injector for each cylinder making it more fuel, and performance efficient, i have no regrets about buying my camaro just cuz its tbi but again, depending on what youre looking for (perf/reliablity) it can be lame lol but i can say from experience a TBI 305 is college worthy

plus if you get a tbi and get sick of it, you can swap out the TBI for a TPI intake system its not a big job mainly if you want something reliable that you can do a good swap on, just look for a strong TBI ( one that runs well) with a good body and youll be set

87WS6

iTrader: (1)

Or an LG4. It sucks pretty bad.

OSU Lemon

http://austin.craigslist.org/cto/1578407729.html

http://oklahomacity.craigslist.org/cto/1577414795.html

Getting there. Seems that, like Drew said, if I want the 350 TPI I'll have to settle for an auto, and I'm having a hard time finding any manual 305 TPI's. If I have the resources to do it, what price range are we talking for a manual tranny swap on either one of those?

88fastgta

iTrader: (9)

there are no factory manual 350tpis unless someone either
a. came with a t5/305 and put a 350 in it or
b. came with a 700r4/350 and swapped out the 700r4 for a manual.....

OSU Lemon

I'm sorry, that's a typo. I meant to say manual 305 TPI's. Fixed.

Gumby

Well GM never sold a 3rd gen with a 350 T5 stick but dealers did.

You can find documented 350 stick cars but it was a dealer installed option.
As dealers can do stuff like that, if they got enough *****.

The reason the 350 T5 was not sold by GM was not weakness of the trans, it was that it could not pass Cal EPA downshift rules.

And in general, if GM can't sell it in all 50, they don't sell it.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

well that and its common knowledge that if you give someone a 350 with a t5 and they beat the crap out of it that trans is gonna be the first to go ive seen it done many times but ive also seen alot of 350/T5's that are perfectly fine so again, mixed opinions

Drew

iTrader: (58)

This one is a winner. All the rest of the cars you linked are RS's. In general the RS has at best the F41 suspension and a 170hp TBI 305. B4C's (ex cop-car) are an exception, but in general you're not going to accidentally stumble upon a B4C. Ok, next the seller listed it as a 1990, but unless he changed half of the exterior cues, it's a 1991 Z28. A 91 Z28 has a better engine (even if it's a 305), it's got a better flowing exhaust (even if it doesn't have dual cats, which this one should if it's really a 350 TPI), and at the very least it'll have F41, but it should have FE2 with the L98. Again this is where you want to check VIN numbers, and RPO codes. Visibly the 350 and 305 TPI look identical, so check the codes. Also the Z28 usually has a ton of little things that make it more desirable... There's the bulged hood, fog lights, the high rise spoiler, badges that identify it having racing heritage instead of just an appearance package. Usually the Z28 will have the custom level seats and door panels (nicer interior), and it can have the 140mph speedometer which the RS wouldn't have without B4C. It probably also has rear disc brakes, and either a 3.23 or 3.42 posi vs the typical RS which has drums, and open 2.73 rear.

Notice that almost all of the other cars you list have a laundry list of new parts? That's an indicator that the previous owners have been fighting with basket-case-itis for the last few years. It's also not unusual to find that people take better car of a Z28 then an RS since they hold their value better. 16 year old punk kids can usually afford the RS, but the Z is usually more expensive.

In short, $2500 for this Z28 is a much better deal then most of the others. The 90 Iroc is probably the next best buy, but without pics it could be trashed. I'm a bit of an option snob. I won't even consider a thirdgen unless it's dirt cheap, exceptional condition, or fully loaded with performance options.

A manual swap isn't as hard as an engine swap. It doesn't require an engine hoist. It's not much cheaper though. The T56 6spd from a 93-97 LT1 is probably the best option, but that'll usually run about $1500.

Drew

iTrader: (58)

I forgot to point out, after the purchase the Z28 is probably a more expensive date. Parts are a lot harder to find for a Z then an RS. Insurance will likely cost more. It'll cost more to maintain, and it'll be much more suited for nice weather. An RS might get around better in cold, but the Z will deliver it an incredibly nasty beat down in accelleration and handling on dry pavement.

86LG4Bird

iTrader: (1)

Hahaha! I like when people think like that. My daughter has an Lg4 sitting here in the garage that your LB9 would be sucking pretty hard trying to keep up with! Looks stock, sounds stock, and is knocking on 12's
Probably not of interest to the OP, but LG4's are immensely more mod-friendly than the TPI cars.

micktroup2

Simple: it is easier to make a 3rd Gen fast than a 4th Gen pretty!

ThePain

The fourth gen is an ugly car. I have no love for 4th gens at all. Even a nice fourth gen is an ugly car. Very rarely I see pics of 4th gens with body kits that look good, but that's a rare sight.

Nelz

The short answer is if you're going to buy a fourth gen, go with a 98+ LS1 motor car. It's got a short arm long arm suspension which is better than the third gen modified MACPHERSON strut design, the better brakes, a better drivetrain in the T56 6 speed and the LS1 motor.

If you're not able to buy a 98 or later vehicle, go with a third gen, preferably an 88+. The cost of parts are cheaper.

The LT1 cars suffered from engine failure because the opti spark distributor cap was right by the water pump and it did not have big enough holes in the bottom to allow any water from condensation to drip away. Any fourth gen car you buy has the above problems mentioned, especially the part about removing the motor from under the car while it's on a hoist. In fact the clutch for a T56 is almost 3-4 times as expensive.

A good exercise for you would be to make a list if parts you want to install on your motor and then start pricing things out on summitracing.com and Jegs.

The perfect car in my opinion would be a third gen body on top of a forth gen drive train, with the short arm long arm suspension and LS1 brakes. But the best you can get right now is swapping out the front LS1 brakes onto an 88+ thirdgen and transplanting a motor (pick any v8 with 450hp+ or any long runner system making 500ft. Lbs of torque
and a T56 6 speed in a third gen car. Both cars need subframe connectors, spherical bearing lower control arms, nylon bushings in the front control arms, torque arm and pan hard bar changes, strut tower braces, stickier tires and a stronger rear end. With the third gen cars, with the MACPHERSON struts you have to dial in static negative camber to compensate for the fact that it doesn't gain negative camber in the corners like any short arm long arm suspension would. But this only applies if you are road racing or autocrossing. The rear brakes on third gens were fine after fixing the rear caliper/e brake problem. In fact since it grabbed more surface area than the fourth gen cars they may have been better. They just need the LS1 brake swap. But yes, any motor work is easier to do. When you go shopping, just ask to look under the hood of both cars. You can see that the forth gen motor is stuffed past the windshield into the interior almost.

JeffG3209

Easy one for me. Just remember, these cars that people think are junk right now will soon have the status of the second gen. The youngest third gen is roughly 19 years old. I don't think I've seen a second gen in my lifetime and ever thought, wonder why he bought that pos...

torque_is_good

Presently I own

1995 - rebuilt engine (stock rebuild) , rebuilt street strip 4L60E tranny, 3.23:1 gears, long tube headers, cat delete, magnaflow cat back, 1.6 rr's, CAI, 93 octane tune, 275 40 17's all around.

It roasts the tires, broke a stock rebuilt tranny and the LT1 torque curve starts low and stays flat and high all through the rpm range. It would be better as a 6 speed but automatics are more prevalent.

I have not had it dyno'd but my estimates, based upon what others have seen with similar mods and tune would be in the 290's RWHP. I bought the 95 because I like the front end and overall looks better than the 98-02's. Yes, the LS1 engine is superior to the LT1 just like the LT1 is superior to the L98. That is what happens with technology. The LS2 is superior to the LS1 and so on.

I also own an 89 and am restoring it as a project. I like the classic lines but do not expect a smog, low performance era vehicle to be like the newer vehicles.

Also, about the optispark, it's a non issue as long as you have a good waterpump. And, i would not expect $3,000 to get you anything reliable including a Toyota. I bought the 95 at the end of 2008 for $3,000 because the interior and exterior were in great shape. I have about $5,000 or more invested in it after that (most work done myself) and it starts every time you turn the key, and I'd drive it cross country without a thought.

My 89, I paid $500 because it had all the pieces and new tires/good brakes so it was worth it just at that. I've rebuilt the engine/tranny, redid the entire interior and am putting it back together and then will sand it and get ready for paint. I'll probably have about $4,000 spent on it (maybe more) and again, I've done all the work (except the machine shop did my engine for a good deal as did a tranny guy)

I expect both to be reliable vehicles. Oh, my 95 outruns my 07 stang but all I have are axle backs, a CAI/tune. 281 CID vs 350 CID is very noticeable with respect to low end.

So, unless you have the $$$$ to make an old car become reliable, then don't buy one if you NEED reliability. You'd be best to go find a 2-3 year old Hyundai that is still on warranty and focus on giving your parents (who are probably financing your education) good grades.

Convoy25

iTrader: (3)

everytime i see a late 2nd gen i do

okay

Powerwise:

4.0 gens 93-97 LT1s, not thatt much better than an L98, i cant speak about mod for mod how they compare

4.5 gen 98-02 LS1s. Stock for stock L98s don't come close. yes you can make a L98 fast, but mod for mod, the LS1 will perform better AND have great driveability and gas mileage.


Available parts

3rd and 4th gens have a fairly large selection of parts, especially since some of the suspension is the same between the two.

Working under the hood

4th gens are def not as easy to work on a 3rd gen, if you approach it the same way. the same can be said about an 80's C10 and a third gen. yes its intimidating at first, but once you learn your way and make past all of the electric and computer voodoo, its not bad

Interior

A bit subjective as far as looks (Anything is really, even if more people agree one way). personally i like the 4th gen interiors over 3rd. much more modern and the look and feel of them are beyond the interior of a 3rd gen.

3rd gen interiors are nice as they have the rough, retro rugged feeling to them. the way the gauges are are pretty cool (if only they were accurate stock)

Exterior

safe to say the largest debate over 3rd/4th gen.
again looks are subjective.
i thought 4th gens looked terrible, no style, bland.
before i had a third gen, and when i first saw one, i thought "this isnt a camaro" but after spending time around both and looking at them like a piece of art, taking in every angle, every panel the appreciation grows (may not be the case for everyone)
pictures don't always do justice, you wouldn't have the same reaction to a picture of art opposed to the real piece.

similar to what i said about the interior, i think both gens look good, in different ways. 3rd gens have sharper lines, more rugged, raw. 4th gens, sleek smooth, refined.

i disagree to those that say 4th gens all look alike. the same can be said about many 3rd gens. there are numerous appearance alterations that can be done to 4th gens to give it a different look.

naturally numerous people will disagree, its like trying to agree on why type of girl is hotter, the brunette or the blonde.

ThePain

HMMMM, look at that! is that a logical/needed reason for a "general" forum? Nope, I must be crazy.



******* moderators....

CamaroCyle87

Dude... your on a Third Gen forum of course we gonna say go Third Gen!!!

camaroMp45

Ok so i have a 3rd gen but looking at a 4th gen also they both run good i never drove the 4th gen other than a v6 but i will buy a v8 4th gen anyways now as a performance car what one would be better. Really what im asking is if i line up a stock 3rd gen to a 4th gen what one would come out on top.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Drew speaks the truth, If your going to college > your going to need a everyday reliable car. Go with a Honda, they go forever. Mine has over 250,000 miles on it. Change the oil and keep good tires on it and your good to go! Don't get me wrong, I love my Camaro but always working on it.

camarosrock1989

iTrader: (1)

Oh Thepain your funny ******* moderators.... hahahahah

keithbessler

Wait dd I read correctly that a l98 car can stand a flying chance with a ls1? Up to three car lengths on a ls1? That's pure stupidity whether its a 1le or not. The 245 hp third gens are far from common. But with that being said every person on here will now claim to have one. Lt1 vs l98 is not comparable or else they wouldn't of ever swapped a lt1 into a third gen. I don't think I've ever heard of some one swapping a l98 into a fourth gen.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Damn, I don't know where you read that, but it's nowhere near the truth! A stock LT-1 or LS-1 will stomp the guts out of a stock, L98 equipped 3rd gen! In fact, the fastest production 3rd gen wasn't even a V8! The fastest 3rd gen in stock form was the 1989 3.8 Liter Turbo Trans Am. One of those would give any stock 4th gen a good run for its money, if not beat it. Those got the same motor that powered the Buick Turbo Grand Nationals back in the 80's. But none of the V8 3rd gens will realistically keep up with the V8 powered 4th gens. In fact, I wouldn't doubt if the 6 cylinder 4th gens, like the 1997 30th Anniversary Edition, would probably either smoke or keep right up with the V8 3rd gens.

Javier87z28

iTrader: (1)

Second this notion lol

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

stupid ole me ive been pulling/installing em with the trans attachef from the top since 2000.
guess i never got the memo

3rd gen, any 3rd gen is terribly slow in stock or bolt on trim.
but once a powerful motor, stout trans, susp. go in. its a whole nother animal.
ls1 cars just have a more refined.feel imo. bought mine brand new. but all the other 4th gens ive owned, usually the maintenaced they recievd makes or breaks em.

cosmick

I've driven an LT1 fourth-gen, and I rather liked the seat, dash, and center console. The top end feels good, just before second gear. But I just bought my third gen based on affordability. On the drive home, I realized this car has something the gen 4 didn't. It has character. In some ways, driving the gen 4 is no different from driving any other car from the same year. Maybe the gen 4 just wasn't as beat-to-death yet. I don't have to put up with airbags, either. As others have noted, whatever else I like about the gen 4 can be swapped, as the only great difference was the front suspension, and I see no evidence that it was that dramatic of an improvement for autocrossing. Maybe ride quality, but I don't care about that.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

im gonna disagree with this and say speak for yourself.
i drive my 4th gen and everywhere i go, i get compliments and looks. even offers to buy it.
the lt1 cars dont ususlly get as much attention as ls cars. but really its the owner of the car that determines what the end result of the car becomes.
do agree thst the 3rd gens have something about them. my hi hp project is a 3rd gen.

keithbessler

I fully agree with you pat but those ta's are not exactly common and are hard to come by on the road let alone for sale. Some one on here said that a third gen stood a fighting chance. With full bolt ons it still wouldn't stand a chance. I own one proudly but would never put it up against a 4th until a proper engine swap. Just pointing out some ones stupidity on here that's all.