cosmick

I can't let that go. First, I think you missed what I meant, and second, you referred to things that happen when the car is stopped at a gas station, not when you're just cruising late at night on a deserted road. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm saying you didn't catch the aspect I pushed.

Nelz

I believe the L98 Lingenfelter Superram 383 thirdgens ran 12.5's back in the day. This was the same as the LT1 fourth gen. This time is technically faster than the LS1's.

NemeSS-TyranT

iTrader: (1)

impressive for its time, yes.
but technically speaking in current times. that superram 383 wouldnt stand a chance against a similar prep 383 ls motor.
holley 90 mm hi ram > super ram

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Oh yeah, no worries man! Personally, I'd put my particular 3rd gen up against ANY stock 4th gen car, but then again, my 3rd gen is FAR from stock! I just upgraded my rearend gears from 3.23's to 3.42's, and as fast as it was before, it's even quicker now with the better gears! So yeah, LT-1 or LS-1, just bring it!

keithbessler

Haha I'm sticking to my 5.3 FI I like to cheat a bit.

hub91z28

I would like to respectfully disagree. In its stock form the third gen camaro (or at least mine) works great as a daily driver. I drive my 91 z28 everywhere (other than off road) and mine even has a convertible top, however that noise you were speaking of is a downfall and the clearance could defiantly be better but all in all my car works fantastically as a daily driver.
Honestly the only annoying thing about my car is that you're always scared to pull out of a restaurant too fast so you don't scrape the front. and you cant really it or someone may just cut open the top haha.

BluFBdy

iTrader: (1)

That depends on where you live, I've driven mine daily for almost 6 years now and back in phoenix I didn't have an issue, even with no a/c (t-tops made it bearable) now up in Washington I have rain and snow to fight. Technically it should be a seasonal car, but I still to k my car daily, my moans and groans about it are 1 traveling I5....absolutely terrible freeway which jars me around and the front end likes to follow grooves in the pavement which I5 is littered with and driving in Seattle with a t5.....ha no thanks. I avoid a lot of areas too due to ground clearance

I am all for daily driving your thirdgen, like I said 6 years now lol but everyone has to remember that some places are far less enjoyable to drive than others lol

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, with the new motor in mine, it's actually still tame enough to work good as a daily driver, but the gas mileage went WAY down! My old TBI 305 was pretty anemic power-wise, but damn it was reliable! When I pulled that motor out it had 259,000 on it and still ran really good! Even with that many miles it only went through about a quart of oil between oil changes. It's a blast to drive with the new motor, but with friggin gas being almost 4 bucks a gallon, I mainly just drive it on weekends anymore.

fozzi58

Best thing I did was to by my 4th gen AFTER I had a daily driver (and a house wife kids etc).

I love the car. Its the most fun I have ever had even over all my past 1st, 2nd, AND 3rd gens.

I live in Jersey and using my 4th gen as a daily driver isn't even a consideration. No way am I going to work everyday in traffic with an 6-speed and dealing with the potholes, ******* drivers, etc with that car.

I'll stick with my boring Avalanche.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah I hear ya Fozzi. My mother bought a Jeep Grand Cherokee a few years ago, and retired her 1994 Pontiac Grand Am, so I use that car to get to work every day. It has a 2.3 liter, Quad 4 H.O. motor in it with a 5-speed, so it's actually somewhat fun to drive, and I can go back and forth to work all week long without the gas gauge ever dropping off from the full mark! My 89 RS on the other hand goes through a full tank of gas if I drive it back and forth to work for a week!

jraider66

My first third gen was an 89 RS that had an L03 TBI 305/700R4 Auto. I bought it from a guy on a farm for about 650.00. It needed some things fixed but I just tackled them when I had time. You should have some mechanical ability when owning one of these cars, but they have never been any more unreliable than any other car that is older. The only time mine ever actually broke down on me in 10 years of driving it daily was once when the Ignition Control Module failed. Otherwise I put good tires on it and drove it in Minnesota through all 4 seasons. Eventually I got a Cadillac and drove that in the winter, but it was a complete lemon comparatively and my Camaro bailed me out in the winter many times when I had an emergency. That STS was a piece of junk when comparing their reliability. I remember once especially, the snow was rather deep and I lived off the road with a long unplowed dirt driveway with ruts in it. Knowing full well that I was probably going to get my Camaro stuck hopelessly I threw my hands up and said "what the hell", and it climbed right out like it wasn't even a problem. This car, a purchase that I was uncertain of because of perceived reliability bailed me out more times than I can count. I sold it for 400.00 more than I paid for it. If it wasn't for having my 83 Z28 HO lined up I would have never sold it.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah, the original L03/700r4 in my 89 RS had 257K on it when I pulled it for the new motor, and it was still running good. A little tired, but still rock solid reliable! I hear ya on driving in the snow too! I used to drive mine year round, and once I put in a posi rear and put on a set of Winterforce snow tires, I never got stuck a single time, no matter how deep the snow! It sucks down a lot more fuel now with the new motor, but still runs awesome, plus there's not too many other cars on the road around here that are much of a threat anymore in a street race! When I took the original 700r4 to my trans guy for a rebuild, he asked me if the car even still moved with that trans because there was so much wear on the internal parts, and I was like, yeah it drove just fine, didn't even slip. Just figured a fresh trans would be a good idea with the high output motor that was going in. Bought a rebuild kit from Dana at ProBuilt, and trans works and shifts awesome now!

FRMULA88

The 3rd gens that are in perfect shape today can easily be daily driven, because they have been maintained.

Those of us that that are caretaking these cars simply choose not to.

The rest were left for the bottom feeders to consume and eventually those will be recycled into new refrigerators.

FRMULA88

Purchased in 1993 for 4,900 $ with 80,000 miles The original owner was a sales rep for Toshiba and drove the car every day for 5 years, I am the 2nd owner and it was my daily driver for 3 years.

Original body, I re-painted the original color 18 years ago in my parents garage. I had it touched up this year (buffed, finally painted cowl hood after 6 years, & new fiberglass rear spoiler)

New drivetrain (engine, trans, rear end)

New suspension, brakes, brake lines, etc.

Original interior less the front racing seats & roll cage which you hardly see in the pictures.

Built for 1/4 mile fun but can be driven on the street and taken to car shows occasionally. Pure toy, not a daily driver anymore

It took 20 years to get to this point. Most of the work by myself, the machining and some other items I farmed out. One day it will be passed on to one of my kids to caretake and enjoy in their own way.

Ozz1967

iTrader: (4)

hahah Well said.


I've used my 84 as a daily driver now for the past 3 years and it's taken me that long to get it "reliable" where I'm not worried something is going to break or fall apart on a whim.

Get the car you want, get the car that "calls" to you. You'll know it when you see it. Then, never give it up. Love her with your blood, your sweat, your tears, and your working until 0200 in the morning to figure out that wierd electrical issue and then, only then, will she she'll run for you.

RockShowTrader

iTrader: (1)

I have had FIVE 3rd gens:

1982 TA (Crossfire Injection)
1984 Z28 (305 HO w 5Spd)
1986 Firebird (305 TBI)
1987 Firebird (305 TBI)
1988 GTA (350 TPI)

I just got my first 4th Gen: 1993 TA, only 84k miles, very well maintained, LT1 with auto trans.

While I will always love the styling of the 3rd gens better - my 4th gen is a much more solid feeling car. The 3rd gens feel like toys riding on rough roads, like they are going to fall apart. The 4th gen feels like a real car. But yes, it's a modern sports car, not the aggressive muscle car that the 88 GTA was. But I was done with 3rd gens and have no regrets with the 4th gen - it's still a Trans Am, it's still a very good looking car in my opinion.

And finally I do disagree - I feel that the 4th gens WILL indeed look like classic muscle cars one day. I'm sure people said some really nasty things about the 1982 Firebirds and Camaros when they came out!

87camaroirockid

a third gen 5.7 will push 225
a forth gen lt1 5.7 will push 275
but a third gen can easily push 400 for under 1500
4th gens are lighter and more aerodynamic
third gens are better looking
i own a third gen and my sister owns a 4th gen but my car leaves hers in the dust currently pushing 450hp

Dakota W.

Thirdgens have personality.I too daily drove my thirdgen when I was going to school, and when I was working. The LB9 and 5speed gave me ZERO trouble....in spite of the PO pouring headgasket repair into it...but I drove that car VERY hard for about 2 years before I finally popped the headgasket. Hell, you might as well say I daily raced it lol. I've never driven a car that was more fun than my camaro; granted, It was the first car that I bought for myself, but I've driven several others from mustang to audi quattro. the way thirdgens feel is just beyond amazing. The exhaust note that the LB9 had from 3-6500 was phenomenal. Plus, they're not too new to have a hard time working on. I've learned a lot from working on my camaro, and I'll probably learn a lot more because I've got big plans for the car. Drive both and see which one you like, I like my Thirdgen.

vdoggie

all opinions aside... 3rd gen cars look BAD AZZ!!!! obvious personal favorite are the 91/92 Z28's with the ferrari style spoiler and all the sweet ground effects.. it's just a sweet car to look at.. so many lines and curves... all 4th gens to me are incredibly ugly and beyond boring.. look like some lame egg curved stinking pile of nothing.. there is NO character to them! again.. my opinion but I just can't see anyone needing to look at a 4th gen for more than a second..

GrumpyBadger

I'd like to add something here, if I may.

First off, I've driven HARD, a 2002 WS6 T/A, a 2000 Z28, a 1994 Z28, and a 1990/1 Z28 1LE.

I was fortunate enough to be a greasemonkey that had friends that were, that were kind enough to let me drive their cars if I let them drive mine. Mine at the time was a solid 11 second 69 El Camino.

Not going to lie, the WS6 and 00Z28 SCREAMED and had plenty of power. If you want to go fast, and not have to mod much, 4th gen is the way to go.

The most fun I had driving - the "ghastly 305." The 1990/1 (can't remember) white, SLEEPER. Fact is, she is a 1LE Z28. And he hasn't left her stock. I haven't talked to him in a while, but i'd be surprised if he isn't on this forum. I LOVE that car! For driving around town, she had plenty of power, but not so much to easily get into stoopid trouble. An example of that, my Elky. She had 600ft/lbs... yep. Take that at a red light right turn HARD and see what happens! And the WS6 shocked me a bit with a loose rear too. The 1LE, just stuck. She was an excellent combination and blending of parts into a great autocrossing/road running car.

fact is, remembering that 1LE is one of the main reasons why I'm here now.

This thread is actually pretty old, and I've thoroughly enjoyed reading all of it. So this last bit, I'm going to put for others pondering this same question, as I hope the OP found his "dream F-body."
It's not only 3rd gen vs 4th. It's Firebird vs Camaro too.
The 00 Camaro felt like a different car because of no t-tops than the WS6.
The WS6 with her MASSIVE hood and lack of visibility, made her feel not like a pony car but more like my Elky or my buddy's GTO-Judge.
Another friend has a GTA, with T-tops and all the goodies. That car is night and day from the 1LE.

and man, if I could, I'd own:
1990 1LE Camaro
1990 GTA 5.0 5sp t-tops
2002 Camaro SS Anniversary Convertible
2002 Trans Am WS6
2014 Camaro Z28
1969 Z28/302
1969 Trans Am Ram Air
1977/8/9 Trans Am 400/4

and I'd be happier than a lark and I'm sure most guys here would too! Fact is, the F-bodies I think have their devotion, and even friendly rivalries between Firebird and Camaro fans because they're all great. For their own reasons.

me right now, a 1990 WS6 T-top 305/5spd in Maui Blue... yeah, looking for her right now. The first on that list! lol

eseibel67

Good choice. Just be aware that the 305 in there is not necessarily equipped with Tuned Port Injection. Could be had with the less desirable TBI.

Also, gear ratio makes a world of difference at this power level. The gear ratio you want is the 3.42 (GU6 I think?). The bonus is that this gear ratio with the TPI engine and 5 speed will also get you a better cam if everything is still factory original.

bestracing

I've had the fortune to own a 72rs, 67 Camaro and now my 86 T/A and my dad's 70 Z/28 rs. I have driven 4th gens as well and out of all the cars I liked the 67 the most for a couple of really silly reason. It had cozy wings in the door and without A/C that made a huge difference and it didn't squeak and rattle on every bump. I also had fun with that car.

I love the third gen body styling but I don't care for the cheap interior construction that causes most of them to rattle and squeak all the time. Still I prefer them over the 4th gens and if you really want the fuel economy and power of a 4th gen you can always put a Gen III/IV SBC into the 3rd Gen as well.

Johnny Blaze

iTrader: (15)

I have owned every generation of camaro except the 5th.

70-73 is my favorite body style and I own one.

I love the looks of the 3rd gen as well. I grew up in the 80's so that has a lot to do with it I'm sure.

For a daily driver I choose a 3rd gen based on price, parts avalibilty, being old but having efi, and of course the style.

4th gens are obviously better performers out of the box, but I like the looks of the 3rd gen better.

James Sutton

iTrader: (2)

Much wisdom here, esp. about perpetual repairs. Replaced my alternator (twice), starter, two push rods (bent/broken), thermostat (frozen), head gasket (boil over from thermostat), fuel pump (too small after engine swap), universal (after low torque lash)--all in 300 miles after finishing body work. It's always something.

Blue1990camaro

iTrader: (1)

im sorry but id like to see a 3.4v6 fourth gen beat my third gen, that will be the day.....

iv had several 3.1 third gens and theres no way thats gona beat my "almost" stock LB9... uh uh, not gona happen, wait actually, iv had people try, and well, outcome is pretty obvious, no comparison

David Dempsey

Well, I have to wake this thread back up almost a year later. I daily drive ALL my firebirds (3 so far) and when I first get them, there are a lot of little issues to clear up, but most don't stop me from getting where I'm going. Overheating/fan issues, headlights, TPI issues mostly, but once I work through those they are reliable cars. The most negative commentary here has been about the 305 TBI cars, but to be honest, my son has my old one and that thing starts every time, no matter what. For about 4 years now. All we had to replace on that was the gas tank (did the fuel pump at the same time because hey, why not). It's not as exciting to drive as the 350 TPI I have now, but it's reliable for sure.

big hammer

TBI motors are lazy as hell, but dead nuts reliable.

Ghettobird52

I coulda swore TBI didn't come to f-body till 88

ASE doc

This is an interesting conversation for me, since I have owned my 87 IROC for 16 years, and am right this minute working on my son's '02 Ram Air TA. My 87 is completely rebuilt from scratch with major performance modifications to the TPI motor(yes it's still full runner TPI), transmission, steering and suspension, brakes, ETC. So performance comparison between my car and the 4th gens isn't really valid since it has about double the original factory power output. It's considerably faster than my boy's Ram Air. Both his car and mine have Eibach springs and Koni shocks and struts. I can't really see any advantage in handling between the two in regular use. The 3rd gen will out corner the 4th gen when pushed to the limit and the 4th gen with double wishbone front suspension has a smoother ride, though I prefer the stiff ride of my IROC. The 4th gen does have much better brakes from the factory than the 3rd gen. Brakes were one major upgrade I did to mine.

To say the 3rd gen feels like a toy on the road and that the 4th gen feels more solid? I don't know where that comes from. Definitely a matter of opinion. Yes the 3rd gens are more stiff up front due to Macpherson struts, less friendly over bumps, but otherwise there is little difference between the two chassis. The 4th gen is after all based on the 3rd gen. I feel like any stock chassis 3rd or 4th gen feels funny on the road, after being used to my modified chassis and suspension.

From there, the comparison comes down to build quality. The 3rd gen in my opinion is a much better built car. Both bodies have trouble with wimpy door hinges that require replacement at some point. The 3rd gen at least has steel doors that don't come apart at the seams. My boy's car is off to the body shop when I'm done with it to get the driver's door skin re affixed to the door body. The glued seam between the two has separated. The doors are of course plastic inside and out. This was done to shave weight but the car really isn't appreciably lighter than the 3rd gen so it doesn't seem to have worked out very well. The plastic doors cause constant issues with the power window regulators. The regulators are riveted to the plastic panel and the rivets wear the holes out so that the regulators flop back and forth in their mountings.

Interior trim quality is very poor on the 4th gen. Pretty much every one that I get in for repairs has broken switch bezels and other plastic trim pieces that have failed. The interior door trim panels crack at the upper rear corner where it is very visible. My 3rd gen on the other hand, has had very little trouble with interior trim. The bezel around the HVAC controls and radio does like to crack at the corners where the fasteners go through and the upper door trim is cracked in the same spot on both doors, the cracks are barely visible with the doors closed.

Having said that, I love my son's '02 Ram Air. I like the look of the car and when these are in good shape they are very nice to drive. Once the body is back where it needs to be, we will probably work on power upgrades. I'll be upgrading the motor in my IROC as well cause dad's car will always spank son's car, period. This car was mint when my boy used to own it. He sold it to a guy who swore he would treat it like a child. Well, he was a crappy dad. He really tore the car up bad. I have just finished putting the engine and engine harness back in order and getting the body electrical and locks functional again.

rusty vango

4th gens are a service nightmare, they have cheap plastic body and interior parts. not to mention they are butt ugly. go with a 3rd gen and you wont be disappointed.

dmccain

iTrader: (2)

No doubt 4th gen is superior in performance. period. The firebirds are beautiful. The Camaro on the other hand is an ugly duckling from 93-2002. But that is an opinion and one widely shared. But at the end of the day its what you like. Third gens are very good looking and affordable cars but a little lackluster in performance unless you modify them and the good thing is its not too pricey to do if you don't mind skinning some knuckles.

eseibel67

Ha, our family is the opposite. I have the fourth gen WS6 TA, and junior has the third gen GTA. Both are warmed over for better perfomance, but still keep the basic character of being original.

Of course the LS1 car performs better and drives easier, but the GTA has it beat in every other ascpect. It sounds better at all RPMS under 5,000. But the GTA's best trait is it's looks. Both cars are parked side by side in a residential garage, where the beautiful fender edges of the GTA's body is quite a contrast to the bloated bulbs on the 4th gen.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

To me the looks of thirds excites me in ways that a 4th gen cant. If it doesnt excite me when I look at it I dont want anything to do with it.

Beyond that, I cannot believe how absolutely terrible the interior is on at lest the early 4th gens... simply awful how everything just falls apart and doesnt stay together anymore. I think/hope they got better about it later in the production run, because... ugh... thirds have flimsy interiors, but they dont literally fall apart on you.

ASE doc

The thirds used screws and steel to hold the interior trim together. Yes, the plastic pieces do crack, especially if were not careful tightening fasteners, but the general assembly of things is much more hardy. Every 4th gen I've had in for repairs, which would number in the dozens, has had interior trim failures. The most common being the plastic, snap in place, switch bezels that no longer retain the switches. My son's is an '02, which is the last year of production. Both of his door switch set bezels(his is fully loaded with power windows and door locks) are broken. On the driver's door it is actually the power door lock switch itself that is broken at the tabs that would engage the bezel and keep the switch in place. The switch just falls through the hole. The tabs are broken on both bezels so that they don't stay in place as they should.

Unfortunately, this method of trim construction was used throughout all GM vehicle lines, and still is largely the same today in GM and other makes as well, which is why I never want to own a newer car. My concern on my son's car is that it is now 12 years old and GM tends to drop parts support for anything older than 10 years. These body trim parts may start getting hard to find.

The interesting point is that I have many GM vehicles of this same vintage in my customer base and vehicles owned by more mature people don't seem to have the trim failure issues. I think it might be that they're more careful with their things.

In my son's defense, his car was in mint condition when he sold it 2 or 3 years ago to some guy who told him how he would cherish the car. The guy ended up being a meth head who really tore the car up. So, the damage to the interior wasn't my son's handy work. It is heart breaking to see this car look like this. But, it's getting better now that I have at least the functional parts put back in order.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Hey David. Yeah I can totally relate to most of what you said in your post. I own an 89 RS which started out life as a 305 TBI car. And yeah, it wasn't a beast by any means powerwise, but dead-nuts reliable! It had 259,000 on it when I finally pulled the TBI motor out and replaced it with a newly rebuilt 89 MAF TPI 355 motor with Lingenfelter Superram intake, AFR 190 heads, etc. That old TBI motor was still running solid the day I pulled it out though! I too went through the fan/overheating issues, which I finally cured with the Taurus fan upgrade with aftermarket, adjustable temperature control. Stays nice and cool now! The factory, dual IROC fan setup just didn't cut it, especially with a upgraded motor. Also had the original 259K 700r4 redone at the same time with Dana's Street/Strip rebuild kit, including the Trans-Go Shift Kit, Vette Servo, Vette governor, etc. Ceramic coated Hooker 2055 headers with 3 inch catback system handle the exhaust dept. Running a 3.42 Torsen Posi disc rear now too. Fuel pump issues were solved with a Walbro 255 pump with Racetronix wiring kit. Don't run into too many cars around town that can hang with me these days! Gas mileage has suffered somewhat compared to the anemic TBI motor, but the difference in power/acceleration is incredible and totally worth the extra fuel!

AssaulT/A

I'm currently a second year college student, and I've been daily driving my Trans Am since I started senior year of high school (including 3 hour one way trips to and from college.) My car has never had a major issue that has prevented me from getting where I needed to go. Aside from normal maintenance like plugs and tires, it's been very dependable.

With that being said, if you buy a car that has been ragged on and neglected by the previous owners, it will be so far from dependable it won't be funny. (This applies to third gens and fourth gens, by the way). I was fortunate to buy mine in very good shape, and I like to think I've kept it that way.

Personally, I would take a third gen over a fourth gen any day of the week (assuming they were both in similar condition). Yes, stock for stock a fourth gen is faster, but there are a million of them out there and to me, they look like a$$.

graysmoke

I think the OP answered his own question here. Your plans are an engine swap but after you're done swapping engines and so on you are left with the "nicer looking" .

I rarely notice 4th gens, do you? they just blend in to me.

I leave you with this

ASE doc

My 355 makes about double the horsepower of the original and I run the factory dual(Heavy duty) fans with a stock radiator. I have them wired to run together and they are controlled by my aftermarket EFI system where I set fan on temp with my laptop. I have them set at 180 if I remember correctly. I also run an Edelbrock Victor water pump with increased flow over the stock pump, and a 160 thermostat. The system has had no trouble keeping the engine cool over the 15 years since I built this motor. I did notice though when I got stuck in stop and go traffic on a very hot summer day, that the fans ran pretty much constantly and the engine still got pretty warm. I do plan on upgrading the radiator, probably with my new engine build(a Dart 406) in a few years.

big hammer

3rd gen Camaro > 4th gen Camaro

4th gen t\a > 3rd gen t\a

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Best looking fourth gen is an LT1 Formula.... Im not a fan of giant tractor nostrils. I know a lot of guys like em, but I cant stand them.



Still, those guys have tons of weird issues. On Frrax they're all struggling to come up with a good solution for the front wheel bearings, as all the currently available ones will wear out after one autocross.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

Its incredibly easy to pull the engine from the bottom.

So easy in fact that I've considered using that method to pull the engine from my TransAm. But I'm not sure the headers will clear the frame rails. Should measure that one day. Certainly easier. Some more prep work, but once you are going, that engine is coming OUT!

ASE doc

Just be sure you get EVERYTHING disconnected, and raise the body slowly. I have done a few engines in the 4th gens. Just set jack stands under the K-frame and transmission, remove the bolts and raise the body off the motor. So slick. Just go slow raising the body in case you forgot to disconnect something. It seems like the 3rd gen wouldn't be that much more difficult. I don't know about the headers either. I know that I couldn't install my motor from the top with the headers installed. Had to install them after the motor was in.

The 4th gen uses a sealed hub for the front wheel bearings. These have ball bearings rather than tapered rollers. Less surface area to spread the load. I can see how this would be a limiting factor under severe use. I don't see though why an inventive machinist couldn't produce a hub assembly that accepts tapered rollers.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

They indeed have.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

That solution is easily the best one, and it was the end result of trying to use a 3rd gen spindle.... but $1200 after ~$100 sealed hub bearings going out over and over isnt cheap. Not a part you'd watn to cobble together either. They experimented with various ways of trying to remove/press/install 3rd gen spindles and to do it in a long-term safe and reliable way that can handle racing and street driving isn't easy. I think what they ended up with is a great solution. But you gotta pay for it. Thats why I say they're struggling for a good solution. Im not sure those fancy hubs are even available yet... I think he just went public with it within the last year and Im not sure if any have shipped yet.

They're just trying to be cool like us! Tapered roller bearings ftw.

ASE doc

That should just about do it. Correcting factory designed flaws is rarely cheap. Only those of us who are serious about building the best car we can will use that part. For us, the cost is secondary to the solution.

Take a look at Sonnax and their solutions for the 700R4/4L60E. The Smart Tech Input Housing, which now resides in my brutus 700R4 sells for $500 bare. Makes for an expensive build but it is the only real, long term solution to the engineered weakness of the 3-4 clutch configuration. Just like that hub set for 4th gen builders, when I looked at this part, I knew that it was the only way to go. So it took an extra few months of saving to put the parts list together. I'm not in a hurry.

TRANSSPORT

I had my 91 firebird for almost 7 years as my daily driver. I drove it to college for 4 years (AAT Web Design/Development-AAT Graphic Design/Multi-Media).

As for getting girls, I was 55 and dated coeds as young as 22!

The ONLY problems I had were:
1. The plastic tank on the radiator split. I replaced it with an all aluminum one.
2. The car had a warped front disc brake rotor since I bought it. I replaced it with a MasterPro bearing that gave out inside of 3 months. The brand new part failed because it was a cheap China part. Replaced it with a National and I'm good to go. The car has a 700r4, 305, and over 170,000 miles. I drive it about 80 miles to work each day in rain, snow, ice, freezing rain as well as sunshine. I just got my fourth raise for exceptional attendance. Quit knocking these cars reliability!

TRANSSPORT

Another College Student's Take:

ZUKMASTER23 1991 Pontiac Firebird post...

I bought this firebird off of a family friend and it has been surprisingly reliable for an 18 year old car with over 130,000 miles.Car runs exceptionally well and gets me around with a little flare.Only a few repairs and mods made as of right now due to the fact that I'm a college student with no money, and I have only had the car since this past spring.I do all the repairs and mods myself but I really don't mind.. I love this car.

eclipse517517

Wow that was a really awestanswer and some of the best advice I have seen. I hope that that person thanked you. It was well thought out and spot on. So much so I actually signed up just to tell you. Rare in life these days to find people that still have common sense and willingness to help some one with actually helpful advise.

Pat Hall

iTrader: (31)

Yeah I totally agree Eclipse, couldn't have said it any better than what Camaronewbie posted! My best friend owns a 95 Formula LT1 car, and any time it needs plugs replaced, water pump replaced, or an engine swap done, he doesn't even fool with it, just goes straight to a repair shop! Removing the motor from a 4th gen requires undoing the front k-member, and lifting the whole car pretty damn high so you can drop the motor out the bottom. Not the easiest thing to do in the garage or driveway at your house! It's so nice with 3rd gens to just remove the hood, use a good old standard engine hoist, and just pull the sucker right out the top!