Westech

Well unless I have been lied to by people I have bought other parts from I would say there 202. when I redeploy in a little while I will post pictures.
Here is what I got.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=350718534851
Heads
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...m=360596015077
cam (and a free T shirt )

bygddy

I used a Lunati 10001 barebones
214/224, 443/465 and it worked very well, pulled hard to 5500. I wasn't confident enough at the time with my porting to justify anything bigger based on whether or not the 416's would flow enough to use more lift. Going back I would likely go one step higher to see the effect it would have on low end and if it would add anything up top. But it worked very well for what it was.

Atilla the Fun

The last credible set of flowbench results I saw from 416s showed 40-145 cfm exhaust, and 185 cfm intake. 140 / 185 = 75.68%. As such they don't need a dual-pattern cam. If you're running an RPM AirGap and LG4 exhaust manifolds, then you may find benefit from a dual-pattern. Nothing kills torque worse than opening the exhaust valves too early. With a stock torque converter, you can easily feel a dramatic loss from just 5 degrees too much. Unless you're trying to run a healthy cam with EFI, but also without a custom tune, or boost or nitrous, a 110-LsA cam should give better results than a 112 like the Lunati / Crower / Summit cams. A carbureted 350 will give a dead-stock idle with just 12-13 degrees of non-overlap at 0.050", and I can't see ever wanting more non-overlap in a 350. For a 305 the number is more like 14-15. Zero overlap at 50 is emissions legal, and can be noticeable, but nothing like a Thumpr. careful tuning and muffling can make a zero-overlap sound stock if not perfectly smooth. Think stock-but-needs-maintenance. Vizard is correct in saying you'll build more average torque with a tighter LSA when you have less flow feeding more displacement. Isky offers a HF 264 / 264, 214 / 214 108 cam that would be a great match to 416s on a carbureted 350 with headers. Any of them can custom-grind something similar for you.

1gary

Hey Bud.I am pretty sure we would have detected a bad module in our tune up.What defeats 305 heads is 350's needs of 180cc intake runners.We have proven that time and again.Then hand port and no flow bench testing makes even worst.We have dealt with the 305 head use on 350's with our customers when it was at it's height of popularity and try all there is to make it work.And to the extent of applying hand porting experience of 50 yrs tested with a flow bench.We just stopped trying and refuse to do anymore as a waste of time.Same as we done build flat tappet engines anymore.
I want to say also we haven't taken on any new customers for the last 3 or 4 yrs because I refuse to put our good returning customers that have been with us for yrs on a waiting list. I'm just here to help out.

F-BIRD'88

This what a fully ported 305 head looks like.
They flow pretty good once fully home ported with
larger 1.94x 1.60 valves and work very well on 350's


to compare, a typical stock 350 head flows just under 200 cfm
a vortec flows 228cfm in stock form.
A Dart Iron Eagle 180cc port cast head flows 209 CFM in as cast stock form

You don't port with a flow bench.... But you can check your finished job once you are all
done, on a flow bench if that will make you happy.
These ones flow checked at 234cfm. I have gotten more than that on two other sets I did.
On none of them did I need to keep checking, and checking on a flow bench.
Cause I already knew how they would pretty much turn out.
And 1Gary is clueless.

1000's of people have home ported SBC cylinder heads very successfully
including these heads.

This head is 400+hp capable on a 350 . The porting time is just tiime you would otherwise waste on the internet.

Professional shop don't recommend this not because it cannot be done.
They don't recommend it because they cannot PROFIT from it.
There is a big difference.
It is a lot more PROFITABLE to just sell you a aftermarket head.

Atilla the Fun

The lowest peak number I've ever seen for myself, live, in-person, from a virgin Vortec was 236. They're remarkably consistent. With 416s, just a proper cutting for 1.94" valves, with stock valves, was good for around 195 cfm. Good undercut / back-cut valves and some porting pushed that to around 215 cfm. The DIE 180s I flowed were a bit better than 209 before I touched them, and in the upper 240s with lousy valves after I gave them a once-over. But those were 2.02" That pic makes it look like a 95% throat instead of an 85% throat. Pretty common, decent numbers on the bench, but the 85% rule matters for street performance.

1gary

Flow benches are used by professions as setting up a donor head to set as a guide.Don't mind calling our business a profession operation and has been for yrs.

Major defenses are typical of a person on this forums like this is someone who has done little or nothing.

The tech being offered is so outdated it is almost funny until you realize that someone might actually take the bate.Then you feel bad about the misinformation.

I have laid out the professional steps to better use of the same dollars.

It's up to the readership to decide if after all the effort they want to end up where guys where 10 yrs ago and never advance.

Don't let the appeal of short dollars short change your build.

Oh,we haven't accepted any new customers as I said before for 3 or 4 yrs.Got nothing to sell,just want to help.

F-BIRD'88

The lighting in the picture, in the bowls is a bit deceiving.
Looks like the bowl under the valve job is opened right up. It is around 88% to 90% of valve size.

These heads make real good power and torque in a street motor.

I ended up right about the same as you did on the IE 180's after warming them up.
Not crazy about them at all. There are many many better 180cc heads you can buy then these. Fortunatly when actually run on a motor they perform better than the modest flow numbers indicate. But not a Hot Deal at all.

I cost me half the money to do a 305HO head all included than what it costs to buy
the The IE 180cc heads

And the IE 180's need just as much actual porting time to warm them up from out of the box form. (These were the 72cc chamber version)

Another story...

F-BIRD'88

305SBC:

your 8MM LS valves and LS 1.70:1 rocker system retrofit is very interesting.

Might have to give that a shot some day.

Good stuff

Atilla the Fun

My rule of thumb is to multiply a street SBC V8s cubic inches by 0.45 for a minimum intake port volume in CCs, and 0.50 for a maximum. For high-RPM, N/A, race-only, I use 0.50 - 0.55.

1gary

That is the same rule of thumb we use.But with a cam and SCR to match it.

Fast355

iTrader: (2)

Cranes 272H10 is a GREAT cam for 081s, 416s or even Swirl Ports. It even works well in a 305 if its advanced 4* to a 106* ICL.

cuisinartvette

key words right there and most dont know...it takes yrs and yrs of making mistakes to even find that one doesnt know much after all..thats been my experience.
Youll see someone throwing out a peak # and boasting "See"...

Doesnt mean much if the #s below it are no good.
if I had a dime for everytime I was dissapointed after having a head flowed LOL

There is so much to know about porting every app is different, I cringe when I see people putting up a link to some junk $10 carbide and telling them to go hog it out. BLIND leading the blind. That is NOT how it works with heads

Oh well thats how you get started right.
Not into the debate on the rest, I have my opinioins about stock heads and it doesnt matter. Prefer not to deal with them, only on occasion for a reason.

Carry on

D_Smith87

valve size isnt the ending majoring factory with a 305 head, i kept the 1.84 valves in my 081 heads when i hooked them up to my early 70s smogger motor with factory dished pistons. i did a real quality port and polish job on the head, milled them down to 51 ccs, competition valve job, and opened up the bowls a ton, not to mention worked the hell outta the exhaust port, which is the most limiting factory on those heads, they flow pretty decent from the factory w/ 1.84 valves, and yes i wouldnt reccomend them for rpm above 6000, no matter how much u port them out and bowl blend and so on, but a nice streetable motor with incredible low end torque, this is a great setup, yes u can stick 2.02 valves in them if u wanna do all that work deshrouding your chambers, and paying for the machine work, but that also is taking alot of meat out of a thin casted head. and yes i have over 15 hours of attentive work on my stock heads, with a little bit of money( around 350 bucks) with valve job, hot tank, crack check, and milling down .028. overall they are the same casting as the 350 head just with a smaller valve. people think valve size is everything, which it isnt, a valve can only flow effectivly what the intake and exhaust runners can support/supply.

1gary

[quote=cuisinartvette;5510864]key words right there and most dont know...it takes yrs and yrs of making mistakes to even find that one doesnt know much after all..thats been my experience.
Youll see someone throwing out a peak # and boasting "See"...

Doesnt mean much if the #s below it are no good.
if I had a dime for everytime I was dissapointed after having a head flowed LOL

There is so much to know about porting every app is different, I cringe when I see people putting up a link to some junk $10 carbide and telling them to go hog it out. BLIND leading the blind. That is NOT how it works with heads

Oh well thats how you get started right.




You bet-ya.Air/fuel dynamics plays a major role.Intake runner size is important,but the understanding of dynamics and shape and cross-sectional measurements is the ballgame.
Certainly there valet reasons WHY aftermarket heads where developed yrs ago and WHY CNC programs followed along in the continuing development of the engines in general and specificity in SBC's.History doesn't lie.





Thank you!!!.

D_Smith87

your welcome lol trying to stress the point for the people that think giant valves in a stock head is gonna make some craaazyyy setup, which in turn just hurting low rpm power, and adding very little top end on a stock head with how they are designed, i mean some heads u can port the living **** out of, but not any heads that came factory in our cars

bygddy

And all of this makes sense. But at the end of the day, as you said, you have to start somewhere. What matters is how it works, how it feels when done. The first set I did, took an absolutely gutless 77 vette, that wouldn't turn the tires to save its life, to something that would absolutely destroy the tires from a roll anytime you mashed it in first gear. G-tech showed an almost 3sec improvement from where I started. The only changes were a tiny Lunati cam, and Shorty headers. And yes, my silly home ported 416 heads. It never pinged, and ran on 92+ fuel happily. The second set I did went on another stock bottom end 350, comp 268 cam, perfomer rpm, 750dp, 3500 stall and 411's in a 80's Cutlass. I drove the car with 882's on it, then with my 416's. The difference was ridiculous....like make you giggle out loud ridiculous. The owner was ecstatic.
And im a complete hack, who knows absolutely nothing for the most part. I followed everything Fbird posted about portimg them, I Google and read everything I could find,I had time, and very little money. So what the hell lol.
For a guy with 2 kids a wife, car payments, braces to pay for, sports to pay for, a too big mortgage, insurance, etc etc etc.....I still wanted to play, and I wanted something quick to drive. If i could afford real parts, I would....believe me. But these suited ME, and its frustrating watching guys get disuaded from trying something that may be the only way they can get their junk out there with there buddy's and enjoy it. Sure, don't spend a pile of money, but get a taste for it, learn something, have fun,and save for when your junk parts just aernt satisfying anymore. That's what its all about IMO.

1gary

Not calling F-Bird out with this post.Byddy you should try out playing the role of Don King.

It is a huge mistake to compound the errors of someone like F-Bird who from what "we" from his posts ascertained runs maybe,just maybe a 13.75 car.

Don't assume that guys on here haven't been there,tried that.That is also a huge mistake.

I recently posted that guys came into cars thinking the bottom of the barrel parts is the norm.That they have never had aftermarket anything.Pretty much don't know what they are missing.I also posted the since on this forum I have never and I mean never posted the use of any high dollar parts.NEVER!!.

What I have done however posted was for people to build with middle of the road priced parts and those make a giant step forward in reliability,durability,and quality.Also performance!!.

Also decisions made for those parts based on retail pricing is decisions made wrong.There are auction sources,sales like the one I posted in the vendor section,etc that people mistakenly don't take advantage of.

Time and again I've tried to teach you from 50 yrs of hot rodding which your replies have been like your talking to a street corner kid when I have been a professional for a long,long,time.That if you did change your approach the costs really are not the much more if at all.The best part is the equity in the parts you would own given a purchase price I am suggesting is worth more.Moving forward that equity means a ton for the next one instead of make the same mistake over and over again ending up right back where you are now.It is no small wonder guys who don't play that right end up getting out of hot rodding never reaching the goal they started with.

The seed money yrs ago for us wouldn't even cover 1/3 the costs of either the back-up engine or the primary engine of the last 5 yrs.Nothing for a car no less.I've giving you a gift of knowledge.........either you use that as a benefit or decide the same rut your following being a hard headed misguided enthusiast is all there is.

Trust in this fact again and finally this is your very last chance.I do not intend in wasting anymore time with you.

bygddy

Gary, honestly I didn't ask your opinion, nor do i sound like a "street corner" kid. I'm an intelligent, articulate adult that simply has a different view. You spend more time touting your Mega dollar race team, and your vast knowledge then actually proving or doing anything. At the end of the day, its really irrelivant to me, as I'm sure it is to others, what you have to say as you continually come across as a blow hard know it all. Its become sadely laughable to me when the original question of this thread becomes so muddied by all the ridiculous arguments both from you, or from me for that matter. When someone searches "305 heads on a 350" as i did a few years ago I'm sure they will find many threads, and many opinions both good and bad. If they can wade through all the heresy and internet bullsht to formulate their own opinions then so be it. If they research enough and listen to the guys that have done it with success they too may have success. If they don't then they will have learned a lesson cheaply and will likely step up and support the aftetmarket buy purchasing better parts. Either way, you touting "home porting"as arcaic and detrimental, when many, including myself have done so with great success just goes to show how far you have come from the real world and real budgets. You need to step away from the "supposed" Mega dollar race shop your "partner" won't let you discuss and come hang out here for a weekend this summer, you can have beers with my dad,and my uncle, myself, and a bunch of really decent guys that have some really decent cars built in small garages, on small budgets. I have seen it all, from home ported 441's to 416's to vortecs pulled fresh out of the wreckers by myself and some friends. Yah,we even have a couple guys that have, and like to spend money too.....we don't hold it against them tho we just try and beat up on them with stuff were not afraid to break. If you ever had "roots" in this sport, you need to get back to them once in awhile just to remember what it was like. I have never asked for your help, nor your opinion. Therefore my feelings aernt going to be hurt by your "this is the last time I waste time with you" BS.....Im just in a generous mood this eve and thought I would share. Have a fantastic night and enjoy the rest of your weekend...
Sincerely
Dave

1gary

"The use of 305 heads on 350's ends up on the positive side a increase in compression,but on the negative side the 305's don't no matter what you do,don't flow, being limited by the 305's original casting".

That is a direct quote deeply rooted in the basic knowledge of the history of Hot Rodding,the trials and errors of the same,and prevention to help not make the same mistakes made over and over again which is a direct answer to the O/P's question about using 305 heads on 350's.How this gets confused is by the over shadowed result of the positive side of the increased compression being interpreted as any result of any misconceived home porting.

How this answer is developed comes from the start of home porting double hump fuelie heads on 265's through numerous yrs of the same with a wide use on untold sizes of engines of many OEM engines/heads and moving forward from the era of Mondello ported heads to the current day technology.A unintended R & D now being offered solely from the growth and expansion of being involved in high performance engines to help keep people from making the same mistakes in time and money.And a answer that in every way is deeply rooted from the basic's and supported by testing from the advanced current day technology and "real street experience".

bygddy

Again, you have yet again missed the point. This argument becomes more and more inane every time you quote your "years of experience" or your "extensive R&D" .....all of this stupidity, and miss information is painfull when the answer is sitting in the garage waiting for the snow to melt. Take a typical SBC that untold guys have, in their own garages, with mild cam, simple Carb, headers, and stock 882 heads with Z28 springs on them. Do you wanna guess how many guys are still running this exact combo? In everything from street rods to jacked up mud trucks they are still out there. And when the guy with the S10, or slightly rusty Gbody car with a 350 he "thinks" is fast decides he wants to go a bit faster then his buddies but doesn't have much money to spend. He will look at this, he can read, he can research, and at the end of the day, if he puts the time in, he can bolt on a pair of dissregarded 416 heads and HE WILL BE FASTER.....that's why the OP asked the question in the first place. You saying the heads don't flow is simply arrogance on your part when you have guys in this very thread showing you flowbench numbers that state otherwise. All of this was intended for the guy running stock heads that wants a little kick in the *** for a modest price. Not the guy going to auctions or surfing the internet with his visa in hand. Can you get that? I hate to say it but it really sounds like your far more out of touch with the realities of the average Joe then you realize. I'm pretty good at reading people Gary, and it feels like you may have been involved in something at some point in your life, but have been relagated to shop cleaner or mascot for some race team somewhere and your still trying puff your chest and prove your worth by spouting tidbits you overheard while emptying the trash cans in the shop. And at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong with that. But stop trying to be something your not.
So on that note, I will let you have your reply and your small victory in the "who gets the last word" contest you seem to enjoy playing. I have made my point, and given my opinion, about 305 heads, and about you personally. Both may be dead wrong, but somehow I doubt it.
Good luck

Westech

Like I stated before... I have done 305 headed 350 in the past and I am building one more. I was happy. it worked for me. I dont race down the track at 7500 RPM. I street drive. Do a burn out now and then. Have fun. For the money I have had in the last two engine (heads free.. and maybe a few hundred in parts and lubes ect..) I am happy.
Can I make more power with something else? YES! did I have fun building my engine and was it good enough for me? YES! Its not all about how much money or what is the best... its what works for who. End point again!: Can you slap on stock or worked 305 heads on a 350 and have it work? YES! That is it.. Done deal.. No one can say it wont work, wont run correct, blow up in a small thermal nuclear event, nothing. It WILL work!

D_Smith87

i think what were all trying to get it as that 305 heads worked up, on a 350 block will create a decent street motor, im not talking 6 grandrpm and up regular use, im talking a mild cam with a range of like 1500-5700, i built a 370 horse motor with 305 heads for under grand, granted i didnt acquire these parts over night, or do my heads in one sitting for that matter, everythign was researched, and matched to what it needs, cam to intake to heads, the balance of a motor is the most important factor, u see all the times people throwing tunnel rams on **** and thinking its gonna be sweet or sticking some 200cc heads on a tiny cam, all in all it comes down to horsepower to dollar, and i decided since my car started out as a iroc with 305 tpi heads, i could just utilize them and make some decent power with some well thought over port and polishing, like i stated earlier my block came with factory dished pistons, and yes i have better heads at my disposal to put on, but that wasnt in part of my current budget build, so worked the crap outta those 305 heads and slapped them on. anyone hating on 305 heads on 350s needsa get outta here and post about their 2 thousand dollar heads on some other post, this is about budget building not building a 10 second car with 305 heads. 305 heads on a 350 can create a realyl responsive, low end torquey, streetable motor, if cammed correctly, i think most people that did this setup with the right mindset were happy, except for the few that had a insane idea that a thincasted head can be ported to 215ccs and safely put 2.02 valves into and run 7500 rpms, isnt gonna happen, but realistically a great setup for the street that will make anyone happy over their stock motor with a mild cam, with a little time, research, and patience, anyone can slap a motor together but it takes the knowledge to make it run good. so all your 305 on 350 head haters, go take your afr195s and revv 7 grand the hell outta this post with your negativity, lets be pissed about other stuff such as arabs ripping us off on oil and planting IED's everywhere.

Westech

I second the IED part.... Im just sayin. Off topic.. but look at what I found a stash of today.

1gary

[quote=1gary;5514744]
How this gets confused is by the over shadowed result of the positive side of the increased compression being interpreted as any result of any misconceived home porting.

D_Smith87

oh jesus hahaha what are those from

1gary

Any question on forums involves more than the original question because the O/P doesn't know and that is why they are asking for the advise.
At full retail without even trying what I am suggesting to save money,whether it be World,Dart,or RHS, can be had at $250 each.That provides heads with a thicker casting and a greater possibility of improvement in flow.Certainly not heads to rev to 6000 grand or more.
It isn't very hard during the course of re-conditioning 305 heads to spend a good proposition of that purchase price not having the advantages of the aftermarket heads.What with 305's possibility needing guides,3 angle valve job,screw in studs, seals, milling to get back to flat,etc.
To value experience is how we learned.We have in our past built dozens of flow benched verified 305 headed engines.Then replaced those heads on customer's cars with what I am suggesting.The result is a smile a mile from the customers.

Want to add if that customer decided to replace 305 heads with a middle of the road priced set of heads along with a cam and kit that mates up with compression, and hit the quench target of .040, we have been accused of swapping engines by the customer because of the dynamic performance change the customer realized.

D_Smith87

where are u finding those heads for 250 a piece? and thats bare, no valves no hardware, nothing if so. my tuned port heads came with everything and i got all the hardware that was matched to my cam for 50 bucks. bam bro.

D_Smith87

only heads ive seen for that much bare are an aftermarket company called eq that makes a thicker than factory casted vortec 170cc that flows the same numbers.

D_Smith87

lol point is i know what ur talking about and i know spending an extra 750 bucks on my engine could make me 400 horse, but purpose being its a budget build and instead of swapping pistons, 250 bucks there with cost of rods being pressed on/off and some 120 dollar hypers included in that 250, and paying another 75 bucks in valves for the bare heads and the rest of the hardware, i just used what i had and im happy with it. is that much money worth another 30 horsepower or so, if that? and my motors unique which i like and everyone i know that sees my motor run is impressed when i tell them how much i have into it

bygddy

As i taunted him with before, nothing u say is going to be right....nor will u get the last word. I'm with you, I used the 194 valves from 882 heads, and a set of 981 springs I had laying around from something else. I spent a couple hundred bucks at the machine shop and was exceptionally happy with the performance. Not everyone has the time, or desire to rework "junk" heads like you or I did. But really, not everyone has money to spend on good parts either. I fell into both categories, I could have afforded decent heads, but had these ones given to me. And I wanted to try it, it worked real well for me. And as much as Gary quotes and re quotes the same drivel about perceived gains through compression and not flow, he is wrong. Your seeing gain through both. He will chime in soon with his R&D dept and extensive testing and his years of experience and his motors worth more then my home etc etc etc.....as I said before, I'm sure he is a nice guy with a broom in his hand attempting to reclaim some former glory by standing atop a soapbox with a keyboard in his hand spouting information he over heard in the raceshop that just doesn't equate to the average Joe.....

D_Smith87

im in the same boat, i have a set of bowtie heads that flow some kickass numbers that i already did up and are ready to go, but my motor woulda been rocking 8.5 to 1 compression ratio with a 64cc heads, meaning it woulda been a dog with my 244 duration cam so i upped compression ratio to 10.1 to 1 with milling the 081 heads down to 51ccs, this is a budget build, those bowtie heads are for a stroker im going to build when im out of the corps. and i really have no idea where this guy is finding bare casted world/rhs/darts for 250 a piece, and he better not tell me assembled.

D_Smith87

if so can i find a set of 250 a piece heads that are 55ccs? if so ill do a head swap tooodaayyy

D_Smith87

fill me in gary i have loads of questions.

D_Smith87

answer me this gary if i got ahold of one of the heads us peak of in a 55cc casting, lowering my c.r from 10.1 to like 9.8 to 1 with 170-180cc intake runners, and 2.02 valves with my cam specs
lift: intake .487 exhaust .509
duration: 232 intake 244 exhaust @.050
lsa 112 and a rated rpm range of 1800-5500
what kinda of horsepower will i make? also im running a edelbrock performer eps idle-5500 and a edelbrock 1411 750cfm with an electric choke. here is your test crap or get off the pot lol, if u cannot give me a decent reponse to this then i cannot take your seriously at all.

D_Smith87

and also ill be using roller rockers with 1.5 ratio

D_Smith87

i just want an honest educated opinion because in the future i am going to upgrade the heads on that motor with some roller rockers

D_Smith87

because i know forsure my cam is a little "big" for my heads but it was 50 bucks and was in the rated rpm range i was looking for for a long lasting stock bottom end, minus performance bearings i invested in

1gary

Running out the door to work.I'll get back to you,Customers first.

So i got something to look at when I get back,0 deck??.

D_Smith87

factory deck and factory dished pistons thanks

D_Smith87

running 40 thousand head gasket with 25% race gas, not a big deal since race gas is sold at the next town over

Westech

I am guessing 309 HP. This is like a baby pool.. only with engines.

D_Smith87

fwhp or at the wheels? i wanna know fw hp

1gary

I don't understand "got ahold of the heads us "peak" of in 55CC casting??. Peak???.

1gary

I will say this given what you told me so far.

I do like the lift numbers that lean on the exhaust side and compound that lift numbers with work on the exhaust ports and the 112 lobe separation.180cc intake runners to 195cc for 355,more towards 180cc or 195cc to 200cc intake runners for a 383.Duration that you have is abit big.Especially considering the heads.

D-shape pistons for flame travel and as I said before for a quench set for a target of .040 to .035.Using the stack parts method to figure in the build plan sheet number for quench number.To get D-shape pistons cheap press fit,isn't a big cost deal.

Cam/compression comparability.A topic I posted before.

I would like for safety sake a SCR more towards 9.5 with cast iron heads.Kind of universal 91 to 95 octane gas no matter where you go.We all know gas isn't across the board the same.The other thing I haven't been able to clarify is if EPA has federal laws with stiff fines/jail time for mixing race gas and pump gas.I off hand think there might be.

.039 compressed head gasket.

We have developed a 4 angle valve job.It added a 1/10th to the ET so it is a proven it's self for hp and torque.I'm telling you this because if you look at it,it really isn't that hard to figure out,but because it is a "in house exclusive" I can't reveal what it entails.

This is the basic street engine outline of what we build for customers.There is a ton of more detail like file fitting rings given either OEM or aftermarket piston manufactures,the intended use of the engine,(power adders or not),the type of rings,the kind of honing we do for a cross hatch we do given the rings and intended use of the engine,bearing clearances we have found works well for performance street engines and longevity.The bob wt's we use for balancing.

The above paragraph is all the little things that add up quick which is labor the customer pays but no extra cost if the customer did it himself and did his homework.

None of the above is for a hard core race engine nor is it high dollar parts.It is based totally on middle of the road parts costs being mindful the owner may want to expand his build in yrs to come.Also as I have been trying to teach,it is also based on the type of money management and purchases of the parts.It is that research and some horse trading that is most rewarding.Give ya a example:bought 10 boxes of hard core Isky valve springs one dyno pull for $75.00,they where basically brand new and all check out good,saved one for inventory,sold off the other nine boxes,took the profit from that to buy a set of over stock Torquer heads.Costs??.$75.00 bucks.It is all about how badly you want it and what you are willing to do for it never taking you eye off the prize.

"Guessing" based on what little I know about your build,375 to a shade over 400 hp at the flywheel.Maybe and that I admit is a wild guess.

One last thing.Bygddy I have a prediction for you.Where you are and the way you go about things,10 yrs from now is exactly where your going to be.No change at all if,still involved.Over the yrs I surely have seen the same thing come and go......................

Said this before too,if you never figure a way to advance,a bowling ball and bowling league might be a good activity for ya.Bygddy all it costs is for a ball and shoes.LOL

bygddy

Well Gary my friend, here's the fundamental difference between you and i, I'm not pretending to be something I'm not. If in 10 years I'm exactly where I am now, I will be an exceptionally happy man. Nice house, gorgeous wife, 2 amazing kids, a really nice, reasonably quick car in my garage, and financial stability. I'm not over reaching, I'm not over selling myself or my limited skills and limited knowledge. 10 years ago I was renting, I was driving a pos as a daily, and didn't have anything fun to drive. 10 years before that i was just getting my life together, had no car, no license, and had just gotten out of a lovely 8x10 bed and breakfast for extending my passion of cars to "borrowing" ones that didn't belong to me. I don't claim to be anything I'm not, I offer advice based on what I know, or have done. Not on what I heard or read about on the internet. I have read David Vizard as well, I can copy and paste tech inspectors advice as well as you can, and i can make up secret formulas for flux capaciters that i cant discuss because shhhh....its an ancient Chinese secret. But do you really think anyone believes it? Or cares? Try seeing someone else's point of view. Try realizing there are many ways of enjoying our sport, from auction hunting for good parts at the right price, to yes, screwing around with "junk" heads in your little garage at home. Either way, get off your soapbox and stop acting like a know it all. Your no better then me, and if your as good you should consider yourself lucky.
Oh....and I do enjoy bowling and beers occasionally

D_Smith87

i meant to say the heads u speak of* and is that 375-400 with my tpi heads or some heads u suggested which would need to be around 55 or so ccs to maintain the needed c.r for that cam, that cam requires a minimal 9.5 to 1

D_Smith87

and the engine is 10.18 to 1 and runs fine on 93, i was just playing it safe during break in

TPI

Overlooking the arguments of this thread, Ive run and still currently run #081 58cc heads on a L98 with success (081's being the center bolt equivlant to the #416) wouldnt say it is a rocket ship, but she is damn fun. For the money invested and the parts and material on-hand.. I don't think I could have done a better job. My '89 was/is a solid daily driver and weekend warrior for damn near 4 years before I garaged her for the military.. Yea, there is probably 17 better ways, but given your circumstance.. only you can really decide what route you want to go. Getting the right information the majority of the battle, getting in the the garage and busting knuckles is the easy part.. Hehehe.

1gary

From a straight axle Vega to this.





Dozens of cars bought/sold/raced/and hard work building customer engines.

Lucky??. Very much so given the life I have led. Very lucky..........