I will beat a stock 04' Mustang. My car will keep up with lt1 car's as it stands now

 

Hello.
We have tried every bolt on combination you can imagine on the C4's L98 Engine and
The best bolt on modification to get Some Real HP will be a Good set of RPM Cylinder Heads Made in the USA(Cant say the brand name,Sorry). You can add 80 to 100 HP with the Correct Heads Set up to work in the TPI's RPM Range(very important) $2000.00: Heads, Gaskets and Labor. If you can do the labor your self knock off $700.00. Then a Custom Computer Chip will be needed to Increased Injector Pulse and Spark Curve/Timing for Increased Air Flow, $300.00. Now you will have to Spend Some Time with a Die Grinder(This is not hard to do, just take your time) to Port Match the Heads to the Intake, Intake to Runners, Runner to Plenum, Plenum to Throttle body using your new gaskets as a template. Not so much bigger just a smooth air flow all the way down to the new Heads, Up the Fuel Pressure a few pounds and Leave Everything else Stock, A Free Flowing Exhaust and Air intake would be a Bonus but not needed. You will be Very Surprised how much Low End(Big Block) Torque a well set up TPI Motor Will Produce with these Modifications.(440 HP/450 Torque, 355cid) And the best thing is it will Idle like a Stock Motor(no stall converter needed), No Over Heating and your Gas Mileage will Improve if you Drive it Normally!
David Steele
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Last edited by SportsCarsUnlimited; 01-27-2009 at 11:00 PM.

 

Cheaper, not faster. Maybe not even cheaper. Third gens were made for top end speed. Why do you think even stock 305's were capable of 149 MPH? That is why they struggle to break into the 14's.

With a 3.42:1 rear, 245/50/16 tires, at 6,000 RPM, these are the speeds you'll achieve with a stock 700R4.

1st: 43 MPH.

2nd: 82 MPH.

3rd: 133 MPH.

O/D: A bit ridiculoius, but if you hit 6000 RPM in O/D, you'll be cruising at a cool 191 MPH.

Now, let's see what them speeds are with a 3.73 rear, at the same 6,000 RPM.

1st: 40 MPH.

2nd: 75 MPH.

3rd: 122 MPH.

O/D: 175 MPH.

Doesn't seem like much of a difference, right? Well, it is a pretty big difference, and will knock a few tenths off of nearly any 305 TPI car. Gearing in a car is essentially friction. That engine is attempting to overcome that friction, by the means of acceleration.

Most 305's were a low 15 second car, trapping 90 to 95 MPH with a good driver/launch.

Trapping 90 in third would be bad. Stock third is a 130+ MPH gear. Knock that gear down a little bit, and you'll find that it'll pull harder, and trap a few more MPH.

Engines, no matter how much low end Torque they have, are not meant to be raced at 3,000 RPM. The key to actually accelerating, is revving that engine!

Let's see what the gearing looks like with 4.10:1's.

1st: 36 MPH.

2nd: 68 MPH.

3rd: 111 MPH.

With a third gear that's been knocked down by 20+ MPH, it's going to take a 90 MPH car, and make it trap nearly 100, by being further into the powerband at a certain speed.

Trapping 95 MPH with 3.42 gears would put you at roughly 4,200 RPM. That's JUST getting into the area of peak Horsepower. You can run TPI's over 5K pretty easily, and still pull hard.

Wouldn't you rather be trapping 100 MPH with 4.10's at 5,400 RPM? That can be accomplished with a 100% stock LB9. A roughly 5 MPH increase, just due to higher gearing, letting the engine get into the powerband quicker, and pull harder!

I really can't stand discussing all of this, it's common sense, and honestly makes you seem a bit S-L-O-W.

Backpressure does not create torque. You will not get better ET's or trap speeds with stock manifolds, compared to headers. You will not get better ET's or trap speeds with stock gears, compared to a nice 3.73 or 4.10 gear.

It's just baffling how you can go on thinking this. Just because you put long tube headers and 3.73 or 4.10's on a stock TPI car, does not mean you'll have to buy the incredibly pricey HSR manifold, and a new cam. Of course a tune will be required, as with modifying any fuel injected vehicle, but that's a given.

Even un-tuned, with 3.73 or 4.10's and long tubes, you're looking at picking up a few MPH on your trap speeds. It's been done over and over. Ask a few people on here who have bolt on 305's.

 

LOL! I see you're at it again. Do you believe everything, that every company tells you? The person whoever typed that, does not even have proper English down pat yet.

"Then Most Will Ever Know!!"

Hah!

If you can beat an '04 Mustang GT 5 speed, then why don't you head down to Delmar, and get yourself a low 14 second time slip. Then it'll be believable!

By the way, keeping up with LT1 car isn't exactly a bragging point. LT1 Camaros in perfect conditions are a 14.2-14.4 second car.. The average driver would be lucky to get himself a 14.5-14.7 in a stock LT1 F body, since they are afterall, 13+ year old vehicles.

 

Considering I also have an 85 TPI z28 with 106,000miles (seriously taken care of) and it gets almost all of first gear and a nice spinning 2nd gear for a couple seconds on newish Firestone Wide Oval tires.. I would second this, and it explains everything. Night before last I roll ran a 1996-98 Mustang GT with a cat back, and door to door until 100mph where I sloooooowly started walking him. All stock save for K&Ns, descreened MAF and a cat back.

 

I'd second it too. The reason being is that 1996-1998 Mustangs had the non P.I. engines, and put down around 180 RWHP. The early 4.6 Ford modular engines were real dogs, with the exception of the 4V's found in the Cobras.

The reason behind this is except for the 70's "Cammer" engine, Ford had no experience with SOHC technology. In the late 80's, the engineers at Ford tore down a Porsche 928 4.7 liter V8, pre-1985, which was when Porsche upgraded to their 5.0 OHC V8.

So literally, all of the early 4.6 SOHC Lincolns, and the 1996-1998 Mustang GT's were 90's cars with 1980-1984 Porsche technology. A bit out-dated to say the least. The proof is in the pudding. Early Porsche 928's with the 4.5 and 4.7's put down between 215 and 235 Horsepower @ the flywheel, while variants of the 4.7 put down very similar numbers compared to the modular 4 valve 4.6 naturally aspirated Cobras. Right around 300 Horsepower.

The 5.4 and new 5.0 in the 2011 Mustang GT's were also inspired by the Porsche 5.4 and 5.0's. The numbers of the 1999-2004 GT's are respectable though. 260 Horsepower, 302 FT-LBS.

 

My 84 L69 carbed 305 put down 143hp to the wheels. Estimating a 20% driveline loss, it falls right in line with the 195hp advertized from the factory. Sure, I'm at 4700ft above sea level here but it was adjusted for that. The only mods I had done at the time were headers and a K&N filter. So I applaud your 200rwhp out of a 305. Unless I missed something and the 85 305TPI's had alot more HP from the factory, I didn't think it could be done without really putting some work into the engine.

 

you wont see 300rwhp..anythings possible, but i doubt it.

My very well tuned vortec headed 350 did 299rwhp/401rwtq with TPI and slp runners, the RPM just isnt there to build horsepower.

 

Slow down there killer....

 

seriously. I want a late 80's induction system that i put too much money in, to run even with early 90's technology.

Score.

 

Eh, nothing wrong with building up a TPI motor....but there is something wrong spreading ridiculous info on the internet, claiming to act like an expert when in reality you know nothing like he is.

 

We're all experts on the internet, where you been? haha

...But truth be told, I have no room to talk. I still have a monkey with a gas can pouring fuel into my engine.

 

OP: if the dyno isn't lying, 210rwhp=WIN.

 

 

Are you saying you make 200 hp with your stock tbi 5L?

 

I've always had a suspicion that as a platform the TBI setup had more power potential than the TPI. IT's still a wet system and that kind of sucks, but through a good carb intake, it's not gonna have the same high-rpm limits a TPI system has, just a matter of finding big enough injectors.

 

i can beat stock 04 mustang gt's .. i can beat modded 99 gt's.. i can keep up with an 03 mach1 (short shifter, underdrive pulleys, k&n) from a roll and just barely beat him from a dig.. but im not using TPI

 

I have a 305 (bored 0.030, cammed, ported heads+intake, +all bolt ons possible, BUT it is NOT tuned yet!) and i put down 206RWHP back in 2008 when the ECU was throwing codes. I fixed those probs and it's faster now for sure than 206RWHP, i had close to 300RWTQ too.. I will dyno it again with a tune.. I did 14.2 on the 1/4 mile and it was a **** night (hot, humid).. I'm very certain that 13's can be had with this 'tiny' NA 305.

 

here is me vs an 03 mustang gt with no mufflers 5 speed.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srUGOMhWe8E

and that was before any tuning to wot was done

 

I see you have the same problem with the windows getting scratched up when rolled down as I do

 

Just goes to show, a well-built engine is a definite advantage, although if you're doing a rebuild there's lots of much cheaper horsepower to find elsewhere before you think about blueprinting.[/quote]

As part of a full machine service on a SBC bottom end, clearancing, or blueprinting, costs an extra $125. What cheaper horsepower are you thinking of? BTW, the real benefit of blueprinting isnt increased output, but durability.

 

BTW, a note on injector size. See my engine specs? I run this on 24lb/hr Bosch's @70psi. Lb/Hr rating is just a statement of nozzle size. Fuel pressure increases output just as effectively and creates better atomization.

 

You guys were right. Put new high flow magnaflow cat and 3" pipe to a magnaflow muffler. OMG the CAR IS SO ALIVE NOW! In some parts of the map I've added 10 - 15% more fuel because my BLMs jumped to over 140+.

Sounds is a really close to stock...slightly deeper, but same volume when driving normally. Get into though and the car wakes up and comes alive and is heard, but not obnoxious.

am I a happy camper! Can't wait to get the heads and cam in now! Tempted to go dyno ahead of time to see what ECU, Exhaust and some tuning for 93 octane has done!

 

OP - I have just read your post, and I absolutely dig this build as I also have a nice survivor 85 Z28 that I am going to build the stock 305 to about the same power levels.
The thing that kept turning me off about these engines was the flat tappet cams. Apparently there are some bad hyd. cam cores coming from somewhere, have you looked into nitriding? The cam I liked the most is the Comp XFI 260 H13. I am staying MAF and may even take a shot at tuning the 870 ECM even though the sample rates and baud are crap. As for the Edelbrock headers, I want to ask you a favor, the part of the header primaries that "collapse" into the collector... take a picture. I want you to notice something. On the 2055's etc. the primaries are bulging out the sides and get pinched into the collector as well, they just do it on the outside, not the inside like the 'brocks.
If you post some pics of those crush points, it might be easier to tell how much worse they really are.

I have a feeling I will probably go 2055's as they are a "tuned" system, meaning like an intake, the exhaust can be tuned to a certain RPM to set your peaks at.

Another thing I saw was the lack of attention to your transmission. I would highly recommend a 2500rpm stall and a nice kit from Probuilt Automatics. I talked to them today and they have a kit for the 85 year model trans that updates most of the weaknesses that the later 700R4's dont have. Except the forward accumulator that cushions shifts from P to D or R to D which eliminates that "jerk" we get.

I will be following your builds, I really want to see what the Dyno says, just please go to the same one so we can compare apples to appples as much as possible.

Also, just a last note, I think the original dyno reading is on the high side a hair.. but not much. Outside resources have our car running 14.7 stock, as tested new in 1985.

 

They had a few cams for those, now reason automatics got lower horsepower is because that made a broader torque curve for the automatic so it can run easily at low rpms and pull smoothly.

If you want power you can get one of the better cams to purchase essply for tpi fuel injection.


Keep in mind you want to make lots of torque throughout the powerband so you produce lots of horsepower down low and up high or you wont find that extra horsepower until high rpm.

If you go with a racing cam then you produce torque up high and down low it feels torqueless.



Also 4.10 are pretty low that z28 has lower gearing already but 4.10 is pretty low for any version of cars but it depends on where you live.

We have lots of long mid speed 45-70mph roads so I like my long torquey powerbands or quick low gears since nobody is around im going someplace 3 miles out . If you get 4.10 and you live in the city well then get used to laying down rubber on normal take offs.


Do you have auto or manual?

Dont forget that torque converter stall can be raised and I would modify your car how you feel since you can build it to drag race, autocross, race track and street/strip etc all require different mods.

Oh yea and forget torque get those heads to flow port and polish or better.

Just some thught on my own research and experince didnt feel like reading whole thing tonight.

 

Nice job of making yourself look like a 100% COMPLETE jackass there...

I was AGREEING with you that the early non P.I. Ford 4.6's are weak.

Read CLOSELY junior.

You can't even AGREE with someone on here anymore without them trying to argue with you. Get real.

 

i remember reading a dyno test (done in '85)on a
brand new '85 iroc TPI 305 with 700r4-it put down 180
HP to the rollers at only 4000 rpm,so that one sounds
like it was a pretty average one..
(stock cam good to over 5500 rpm,so lots of potential)
BTW an'85 mustang GT tested also put down 180hp,but
at a higher rpm.

 

Sorry - didnt catch it. I read the whole thread up until my post, your arguing with the other fella had me on defense when I saw your name.
$#!t Happens

 

iridium130 what rockers do you plan on running with those tfs heads and that cam ?

 

Any updates? I have been working so much lately I can barely stay awake through dinner!

 

anything new ??

 

Calm down gents my stock 85 z28 305 TPI is somewhat fast and nice to drive with 20 miles per gallon and pretty reliable i do have dual flowmasters with cats took it to the track ran a 14 not to shabby for stock

 

Hey guys, sorry for lack of updates, new baby born and then started new job.

Anywho...Engine buildout is done. Pictures of the build up are posted on my fb album earlier in this album. Haven't had too much time to drive and tune due to the weather, but needless to say the car is definitely where I wanted it to be power wise now. pulls strong from 3-5.5 grand where as before it the motor died after 4 grand.

Still fine tuning the tune, but I'm running a lot more timing with the trick flo heads at WOT than with the stock heads. Before I was around 16-18 degrees advance, but was still getting pinging every now and then with anything less than 93 octane. Now I run 26 degrees advance plus whatever power enrichment is adding (probably around another 3 degrees), and the car pulls great.

I'm still working on VE tables, i feel its still rich at WOT, wideband is showing around 11.5 afr, so my next chip burn i've pulled a little bit more fuel out. Weather has kept me off the road though (midwest got slammed). Looking forward to Spring weather so I can finish tuning, then go do some dyno runs.

Main things holding me back now...probably need some more stall in the converter, and a shorter gear. I really, REALLY want that 6 speed TCI tranny, someway shape or form get that thing in the car so I ca have the best of both worlds, nice short gear off the line, tall gear for highway cruising, and the care would still look factory on the inside...i've never like the huge stair steps in the 4 speed autos.

Next up realistically is handling and braking. Subframe connectors, suspension, brakes, etc.

 

well i have a 1992 firebird with a 305 tbi and i pull 201.5 hp and 268.2 tq at the wheels and all i have is a 3 inch catback with flowmaster muffler open element air cleaner msd cap rotor coil acdelco plugs corvette servo and i pulled 201.5 at 4417rpm and tq was 268.2 at 3673rpm

 

Do you have stock cam? Stock y pipe?

 

Hey,

Power Enrichment only adds or subtracts fuel, not timing.. If you are rich at WOT, find out where it is rich at and lower the power enrichment % at that point and you'll lean it out. Keep doing this until you reach your desired AFR.

I don't have a wideband but i'm using a 3 wire NGK O2 sensor and using the mv readings (not the best but it's one way of doing it.)

Also, are you running TunerPro RT with the AUtoProm? If so, then you should look into emulation so you can change settings and you will see the difference on the fly without having to burn a new chip everytime to see the results of your changes.

 

ya stock cam and y-pipe but i do have a lt1 cam im gonna put in soon and new valve springs to

 

I didn't read every reply to your thread, but the 5 liter 305 is supposed to put out only around 170 hp and 255 torque. Where did the extra hp come from?

 

well i guess it came from my msd cap rotor coil wires acdelco plugs 3inch catback flowmaster system corvette servo chip from tbi chips the chip alone gives 18 hp 20tq open element air cleaner flat base hers my facebook go read the dyno sheets http://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/p...00000358483616

 

Yea I have to call on that. Most LO3's dyno about 130ish at the wheels.

I have everything on my car that you have, except for the chip (and we all know those don't really work that well). I can assure you my car is nowhere near that power level.

 

go look at my facebook there the sheet it the fact

 

well dyno's dont lie i did 3 pulls to the lowest was 195 at the tires hp the highest was the 201.5

 

Documents can be altered of faked. Like Obummers birth certificate.

Unless you had it rebuilt with upgraded parts, or your not telling us something, I just don't see it making more than 150-160 hp.

 

well i dont have to prove my self to u i know what it did i have the paperwork and the people i know around here r shocked to b/c that puts me at 245 hp at the fly wheel and 327 tq at the flywheel if u add the 18 percent back . so anyways the motor is stock to i have not touched it i have raced some rs camaros and i kill them and they have the same motor to just its stock mines has what i have done to it

 

It is possible you do not have a stock tbi. You may have had mods made by the previous owner that were not disclosed to you. The mods you made will not bring the L03 that high. Enjoy your car, and don't worry about the hp.

 

Look at what I've done to my car and I only made around 216 wheel horsepower (I have TPI with tons of mods, almost every mod you can think of for TPI).. You have an auto like me which also drains more power from the wheels than a manual car would.. My car is far from stock I think you might be thinking of flywheel horsepower, that makes more sense, or as mentioned above, you have an engine that is hiding some nice parts inside it lol. What is your 1/4 mile with street tires?

 

The way I see it is tbi gets good gas mileage as has all its torque low so enjoy it the tpi are faster but not by much 30hp-50hp.

 

30-50 is significant.

 

And again I call BS. There is no way in hell your car makes that power with only those few mods. You know you don't have to lie to make friends.

 

I have a top secret factory freak 305 TPI that makes 2,000 HP N/A with only 10:1 compression, I run consistent 7.4's and still get 18 MPG.

Anyone wanna be my friend?