Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

I have water in the oil pan and oil in the radiator.
Would this be caused by head gasket? No smoke in the tail pipe so I don't think theres anything going on in the cylinder walls. When I drained the oil into my drain bucket if it sits the oil looks fine but if I give the bucket a swirl you can see a couple of milky swirls and then it settles down again. How bad is it?

Also Thanks!

Apeiron

Not the headgasket, but it could be an intake gasket, or a cracked block. Don't run the car until it's foud and fixed.

MotorMouth

If you're lucky it's just a headgasket. It's most likely a cracked head or block.

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Thanks everyone I really hope it's not a craked block I just got done installing the engine to find this. I really hope it's either the intake gasket or at the worst just head gasket. Any way is thier a way to find out if it's the intake or the headgasket to help narrow this down?

Aperion said it's not a head gasket and motormouth said it may be which is it?

Thanks again guys.

Apeiron

Oil doesn't go through the head gasket anywhere.

MotorMouth

I have had a head gasket blow and water squirt into the motor then as the oil drained down the inside of the engine and the top of the head it was getting sucked into the water. This puzzled me until I pulled the motor out and peeled the head gasket back. You could see it going from the metal ring around the cylinder where it blew out to the inside of the engine. I have also seen engines I have worked on that blew the head gasket have the oil and water mix from the combustion chamber. With a bad set of rings oil will get by them and get pushed right into the water and the water sucked into the motor and mix.


I was just letting you know it can happen so you can look for it.

First pull the intake and look around that. If you can't find a leak there you will need to pull the heads. Check the head gasket if one blows you will be able to trace where the oil and water was mixing. Check for cracks between the valves and look at the pistons for water. You will notice a different color on the one water was hitting. If can't see any cracks on the heads they may still be there. You will need to have a shop check for cracks as well as the block if you cannot find any.

cIaRmOaCrZo

i find if hard to believe that a head gasket is a culprit due to the rarety of oil mixing, but to find out if its a head gasket anyways...shoot air into each combustion chamber (as if you were doing a leakdown test) then take radiator cap off and see if your coolant is bubbling with air. (this usually works best when engine is hot)

i can see coolant in the oil being very common, but im confused on how oil is in the coolant. because coolant is pressurized when hot, so coolant will over power the oil at where its leaking. unless of course its cold lol.

cIaRmOaCrZo

cracked block or head deffinatly makes the most sense to me unfortunatly

frirebird952

preasure test the coolant system while its running look for smoke ,then check oil to see if its milky would be best to put fresh oil in first before the test ,the rad is it new or old the oil in it could be trans fluid if the cooler is being used ,if the water gets into the new oil start with the intake most likely culprit

frirebird952

all you will need is a raidiator pressure tester pump it up to 20 lbs with eng cold simulate full rad preasure if there a leak it will show

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

I'm in the process of changing the oil and will flush the radiator. I have an air breather on the driver side head and white smoke can be seen coming out I was told this was normal since I was not using a pcv system but open breather instead but now this has me wondering. It smokes not heavy but its a small but constant stream that comes out. Should this be normal in the case of no pcv?

The oil in the radiator appears to be motor oil and not transmission fluid (I do have a transmission cooler from the factory) but the oil is brown not the purple of the transmission fluid (did a transmission flush when reinstalling engine). So this leads me to belive the water and oil is mixing somewhere together. Perhaps it's just oil that leaked past when the engine was being broken in I hope and the radiator flush and oil change will fix that. Engine sounds fine I don't hear any knocking or odd noises from the break in so I pray the bearings are alright. I don't want to take the engine out again if I don't have to. I also really pray the block are heads are not cracked.

Hopefully it's just the intake gasket if thier is a problem.
Like I said I'll flush and refill the radiator with fresh water (distilled of course) and new oil and see if it mixes again. If so guess I'll have fun undoing everything I've done to the car to check the intake gaskets and go from thier.

Still any ideas on oil in both radiator and water in oil pan at same time how it could happen cuz I'm sure thats whats going on. Also the white smoke from the breather cap.

Thanks again for all the replies and help!

frirebird952

werewolf if water is getting in the oil there will be a white smoke as the engen gets to temp that would be the water steaming out it will come from valve covers with no pcv as for the oil getting into the water that is very odd ,do you use antifreeze ,?did you pressure test the system,is the oil in the water kinda foamy ,looking ?some cars have oil coolers in the rad not seen that on f body to much though ,its hard to diagnose one withought seeing the car ,all i can do is suggest things to look at

frirebird952

you mentioned take n it out again what was done to the eng ?while it was out

frirebird952

there is another way to track the oil and water leak add oil dye to the oil you will need a dye kit it will leave a dye trail can be used for water 2 (dye kit is a black lite and the yellow glasses )will come in handy if you do a dismantle will show you the leak area and if there is a visable crack

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Replaced with a 383 that I had built.
Machine ship bored the block out to 30 over and I built the engine with a 383 stroker kit from Skip White.

The heads are 416 HO heads that another machine shop cleaned up and freshened so I'm hoping its not the block or the heads.

Gaskets that we're used we're engine tech rebuild kit gaskets.
It's been raining today so no chance to do any thing but will try to do the engine radiator flush in an hour or so now that rain has passed.

As for the other question I do not use anti freeze I use straight distilled water as in florida it doesn't drop below freezing espically at this time of the year. In the winter I was gonna add a 20 or 30 % mix of anti freeze.

MotorMouth

You need to run your engine with coolant all year long. This will keep the corrosion down and help with keeping the engine liquid from boiling.

frirebird952

well antifreeze not only that ,its a anti boil so the engine wont boil out ,did the shop check everything for cracks when the had them,another thing a intake leak can leak into the cyl and leak down to the pan

frirebird952

hi motor mouth ,between us we might be helpful

frirebird952

thinking about it really seems like its a intake leak water getting past the rings

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Alright I'll go ahead and replace the intake gaskets before I replace the oil. I'm suprised the car sounded fine during break in with it leakin into the cylinders I hope the piston rings seated alright
I have forged pistons and didn't hear knock when it was running so hopefully it's ok.

frirebird952

im pulling for you werewolf ,intake gasket is bad but not as bad as a head or block ,let me know what you find

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Thanks I'm gonna order the fel pro intake gasket number 1205 that should be good right?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

I would tear it down and find the problem first.

Personally I would tear the heads off and have the heads pressure tested. Just sounds like a crack in the block to me.

I had the same problem, and this is what i found when I tore it down:





And this was the tip off:





The coolant looks really disgusting too. I've put a new engine in since but that murky crap stays in the rad even if you flush it a bunch of times...

If you want to go ahead and do all the pressure testing and leak down testing and so forth go ahead, but I'm the type that would rather just tear it down to be sure when you've got that kind of money invested. You want to catch that before you start ruining parts that you would have otherwise been able to re-use in the next build.

This is what i would do:

1. Pull the spark plugs - see if any of them look different from the rest. If there's a crack in the chambers of the heads or the cylinders one will be nice and steam cleaned. If the crack is some other spot on the block it may not help much.

2. Pull the intake - it's easy enough to do. If you dont see anything obvious...

3. I would just go ahead and yank the heads and pressure test em after that.

If the heads pressure test okay... then you can either rebuild the engine as it sits with new gaskets and hope it fixes itself... or you can move everything to a new block. But again... MIGHT be an intake gasket.

Those Fel Pro 1205's are the same style of gasket I used... I was really impressed with them. I had that intake on and off that car a few times (long story) in the span of a week and I was so glad I had them. They sealed fine up to the end and they're a breeze to install and remove. I decided to get a new set for my current engine since those had been retorqued so many times.

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Well after replacing the intake gasket and sealing everything up I ran the engine for couple runs (5mins or less) without a load just alternating between idle and brief spurts of 3k and slow ramp ups to 2k. I just drained the oil and it looks like a chocalate milk shake so water is still in the system : ( Radiator still has the oil look to after flush and repaced with Dex Cool Coolant)

So that means only the block can be cracked now right?

Thats the only way radiator coolant can get oil in it and engine oil can get water mixed together right?

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

My post covered a lot of bases.... tear the heads off and have em pressure tested by your local machine shop - if they check out fine I'd look for a new block. If you get a new block you're going to want to be sure the heads are okay to begin with before you attach them to the new block and drop it in the car so getting them pressure tested is a good idea anyway. A head swap with the engine in the car isnt the most fun thing in the world, especially if you have A/C.

Werewolf SS

iTrader: (3)

Alright before I get another block I'm gonna have the heads checked and while there off have the head gaskets replaced and wanted to know which gasket to get. The block is a 383 - 350 bored 30 over. The heads are 416 HO 305 heads. 58cc. Iron heads.
Pistons are -12cc dish. Compression ratio is around 10.1 to 1.
What head gasket should I get?

Thanks!