Alright, I'm trying to solve a very longstanding problem. The situation is, sometimes, when the car is cold, sitting overnight or all day, unused, turning the key in the ignition very little happens.

Now this is on a 91 Trans Am.

Turn key, one click from the starter. Do that a bunch of times and it may start.

or

Turn and hold key in the run/on/whatever position it is. Still hear one click, but hold it for a lil bit, 10, 20, 30 seconds and it may start.

or

Connect a quickstart unit to the battery, powered by an outlet in the house, vroom. Car starts up instantly.

After the car heats up to operating temperature, the car will start flawlessly everytime. But if you shut it off before operating temp is reached, usually within 5-7 minutes, you may experience a lessened version of this problem.

Remember, this only happens SOME of the time when the car is cold. Maybe 40% of the time.

The starter has been replaced. The battery cables have been replaced(recently actually, new Delco cables mid last year). The battery has been replaced 2 or 3 times since this has begun. Now I'm on an Optima red top. The alternator has been replaced 3 times, now on a brand new, not rebuilt, Delco Remy alternator. The ignition switch on the steering column has been replaced. The problem has existed before and after each of these parts were replaced. I am not counting out any of these, only stating what has been replaced.

Possibly related to this issue are the following. Up till about a year ago or so and starting sometime AFTER the questionable starting problems began, the ignition cylinder became progressively more difficult to turn. Nothing REAL bad, just tougher until one day last year, it went back to it's normal easy turning. Usually it would take either a small bit of force or pushing and pulling on the key.cylinder just a bit(jiggling it in out a teensy bit).

The tilt is pretty loose as well. This is all going to be fixed when I have the ignition cylinder replaced and have the rods in there checked out to make sure they are still good.

I am honestly at a loss as to what in the world is causing this, and why hooking up a quick start unit always starts it up. I haven't used the quick start unit in some time as I just turn the key a bunch of times or turn and hold it, and it has always decided to turn over sooner or later, but no more than a couple or minutes or so later. It's almost like enough power isn't always getting to the starter, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why since all the cables have been replaced and even a fully charged battery doesn't make a difference.

Oh, one final thing I noticed. When I turn the ignition on, but not to run the battery reading is usually just above or a bit above the beginning of the red lines. Usually a couple or a few bars up from red. But if I stick the quick charge unit on the battery, the reading in the car jumps straight up past the straight up position a bar or 2 or thereabouts to the right of center. Turning the key to run to start the car, using the battery OR quickstart does not cause the power to drop abnormally and it's still usually, but not always, above the red lines or better when I try to start with the battery only.

I just ordered a new gas tank and fuel pump which are going to be installed shortly to fix another problem and I would like to either have this questionable starting issue fixed by then, or at least know what is wrong so the shop can fix it if I can't.

 

I have a similar crazy issue in my 1992 RS - sometimes it starts right up, other times all I get is a click. I've replaced my entire starting circuit to include starter, alternator, ignition switch, neutral safety switch, replaced AND bypassed the VATS starter relay - all with no change. But if I apply 12v+ to the starter at the purple wire, it cranks everytime with no issue.

So, I'm thinking that I have a slight break or short in that purple wire between the neutral safety switch and the starter. Since it's been cold, and short daylight, I haven't messed with it anymore - but with warmer weather and longer daylight, I'm going to see about rewiring that purple wire.

It runs out the firewall on driver side (c100 connector).

If it helps you any - here's wiring diags - all the 1992 stuff will be same as your 1991, and if youscroll down there's alot of 1992 diags:
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=19

And here's a starter troubleshoot guide:
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=38

This list of tech articles is great - put this link in your favs:
http://www.austinthirdgen.org/index.php?pid=2

Good luck! And let me know if you find a specific issue that fixed it - not sure it will help me, but I'm game to try anything at this point.

 

I've read a few posts where people were told to apply power to that purple wire. I, however, am applying external power directly to the connections at the battery. I'm not sure how that fits in as I'm not messing with the purple wire at all. Ease of starting my car seems to be directly related to what the volt gauge is showing, however, again, that is only when the car won't start. When it does start with no issues, I don't notice the volt reading being any different than it is when it doesn't want to start.

However, wouldn't testing the purple wire be as simple as using a meter and testing for continuity at both ends? I know that would be a heck of a long tester wire, but wouldn't that find any problems with the wire? Or apply 12 volts at one end and seeing what comes out the other with a meter or whatever you'd use to do that. Also, wouldn't it be easy to test by simply splicing in a very long length of appropriate wire inside the car where it ends, then connect that to the starter and trying to start the car.

 

Yes, ohm testing would work - to a degree. Voltage doesn't drop across a wire as easily as amperage does. My purple wire has 12+ volts at both ends, that's not an issue. So I'm guessing the short is interrupting amperage in my case.

I understand your applying charger to the battery to get a start - if yours starts everytime with that, then I'd say you have a battery/alternator issue. New doesn't matter - many new parts are bad parts. I'd have my battery load tested and have the alternator tested as well. My last alternator was new (not rebuilt) and it overcharged, causing flickering lights issue in my car - so not all new parts are good parts.

 

Unfortunately, they've been tested and retested. This is what's confusing me. Voltage at the battery is great, perfect. Then you look at the voltage gauge in the car and it shows considerably less than what it's showing at the battery.

If the voltage at the battery reads 14.4v with a meter, shouldn't the voltage gauge in the car read the same or at least fairly close? As soon as I plug in the quick start unit, the voltage in the car jumps straight up to, whatever is a bar or 2 to the right of the straight up position. I can't remember the numbers off the top of my head now though. I have 4 or 5 different meters even. 1 digital, 1 old style, 1 that just has a few lights at various spots next to voltage numbers, one that plugs into the cigarette lighter. You get the idea. There's no change except at the damned factory gauge. As soon as I add more power from the quickstart unit, power rises, car starts.

Oh, the cluster is also new. By new, I do mean new. I replaced it about 4 years back with a factory new unused 140mph cluster after my odometer/trip meter keel over dead. I forgot to add this, but the ECM is new as well. That was replaced a couple years ago to solve a number of issues with idling, running rich, etc.

I took the battery from my 99 Z28, swapped that in. Same power readings. Somehow, the battery itself is not getting enough power to either the factory gauge OR the starter. Increasing power from an external source solves this issue, but what in the hell is causing this problem... and as I said, the factory gauge does function properly. Reads perfect power while the car is running, and reads the voltage increase from an external source.

 

I finally found an actual auto mechanic, and not an untrained monkey with a wrench. After doing some testing, he found the problem to be either the neutral safety switch, or the plug/wire between that and the starter I think it was. The voltage everywhere was fine, until he checked that area. Sometimes it was 9 volts, sometimes it was 6-8 volts. When it was 6-8, it wouldn't start and messing with the shifter got it going again.

Once I get the new switch I ordered installed, I'll test it for a while and report back. I figure if I need to open it up to check the plug and wires out, I may as well replace the switch. This will hopefully bring a 5 year nightmare to an end, plus I found myself an actual mechanic who knows all about my type of car.