Well I removed my transmission to be rebuilt and was dissapointed to find the GM 5.0L labeled on the block. I'm not keeping the engine I think, My transmission is getting a master rebuild done to it with a mild shift kit put in and I'm not spending all my money so I can have a 305 behind it. I'm looking into getting at least a 350 but might want a 383 stroker? What suggestions do you guys have? Convince me to keep my 305 if you want but I've never heard anything good about them. Does anyone know if a 383 would bolt up to a 700R4, I'm guessing it would because its a 350 bored out .30 over and has a different shaft.

 

you didnt know you had a 305 -.- lame

 

I paid $600 for this Camaro haha. The guy thought he had a v6 so I figured I would buy it and see what it had. Tranny came bad which I knew.

 

Nothin wrong with a 305. They will run a long time, and pretty decently too, if you take care of them. I have read that a couple people here have well over 200K miles on their original 305's. It won't be the fastest engine you've ever driven, but it will still be fun to drive none-the-less, and should give you many years of reliable service. I wouldn't be so quick to throw it out, just because of the number stamped on the block..

On second thought, I'll tell you what. Pull that 305 out and trade it straight across for my 2.8l v6. That's where the powers at!
HAHA!

 

I just feel like it deserves at least a 350, the tranny will be able to handle 400+ lbs of torque lol. Yea I'll take that V6 off your hands

 

I'll tell ya what, I have 2 v6's here, one in my 83 and one in an 81. If you want to come over and pull them both, I will GLADLY trade you straight across. Both 2.8's for your "crappy" 5.0

2.8+2.8 = 5.6
So technically, You will be ending up with the bigger displacement!

 

I found a 5.0L on Craigslist here in NY for $100 lol, found a 350 for a $150 too haha. My friends all have mustangs, I'm the odd one out and camaros are alot heavier than mustangs. I gotta power her up

 

I should try to figure out how to hook up the two 2.8's.. I could make a 5.6l v12! LOLZ!
One good thing about SBC's is that they are cheap and easy power makers. I am honestly a Ford guy, but you can build a mild 350, or a 383 for a couple of grand if your on a budget. That is hard to beat!

 

Is that what your mustang buddies told you?....that a camaro is much "heavier" than a stang? My freinds fed me the same BS when I was young and naive, until I found out for myself that they are almost the identicle weight. 3rd gens are not heavy cars. The heaviest of them being a GTA trans am with auto trans, t-tops, and leather interior being about 3450 lbs. Figure a camaro without flip up lights and all the fancy jaz should come in around 3300 or so. Fox body GT's are well into the 3300-3400 lbs range and the notchbacks are slightly lighter but the difference isn't huge on a full weight car. Don't let anybody tell you 3rd gens are tanks, because they are not. Mustang guys like to use that as thier all holy "my car is better than yours because of this" excuse.

As far as a 305, what kind of induction do you have on it? Carb, TBI, TPI? If it's a TPI 305 I wouldn't go pulling it out so soon. My old one with just a cam, bolt ons, and a 5 speed swap with 3.23 rear gears would do consistent 14.0 1/4 miles at 99-100 mph and made 235 RWHP...plenty to keep with any mostly stock LT1 car, especially off the line. Obviously it doesn't have the displacement to make really good power but they are not a terrible engine. I still averaged 18 mpg around town with mine after all the work too!

 

its common to see a fox body LX get under 3000 lbs...they are alot lighter in most cases

 

Just found a guy that weighed his 1990 LX notch 5.0 5 speed on a true scale and he got 3120 bone stock. They are a bit lighter stock but all my freinds used to have full weight GT's and made fun of my "tank." LOL....GT's will always come in around 3300 or so. Can't wait to get mine on a scale with all the tubular suspension and lighter LSx motor, no rear seats, and corbeau lightweight front seats to see where I'm at. Really hoping for 3300 or under if I get lucky.

Anyways, I'll let this get back to topic!

 

Lighter and faster, but that is not the point here. If you are dead-set on swapping out that 305, I would go 383 for sure. There is no replacement for displacement.

 

Some guys on here will argue this.There are some amazeing output by some 305 builds.It is basically the same as a 350 just a smaller bore.I belive the blocks are a bit different but still you can punch it out a bit and make it run really well.Throw a large journal 327 crank and some good pistons in there.Hot cam it and get some good heads and you wont be disappointed.I had a 40 over chevy 307 years back and man o man i got that sucker down and dirty.It was just scary.sideways in every gear in a 79 z28 w/stock gears. down side was it topped out at 110 @ 7500 but got there pretty quick.

 

Personally, if it was me, I would keep the 305. They are decent little motors, and CAN create some respectable power, but not as easy as its 350 counterpart, or as cheaply.

 

It all depends on what exactly are you trying to achieve?? To some guys 300 hp is alot, some 800 hp isnt all that much.

To me, a respectable street driver is in the mid lower 12's in the 1/4. With all the new modern vehicles out there today in the low mid 12's with simple mods, thats where you need to be to compete.

Its ALOT easier to get a 350 there and if you do a 383, you can have 11's easily. If you keep TPI, your handicapping things abit but 12's can be done easily with that setup, it just costs more because you need to port everything.

So what do you want this car to do? Any power goals in mind?

 

I'll let orr take it from here, he probably knows a lot more about this than I do.

 

The 305 is carbed with a Rochester quadrant and spread note intake, not sure on the cfm. I want the camaro to have 275+ HP before I put it on the road. I was thinking about buying a used 350 off of Craigslist and rebuilding it but I'm not sure. I just started getting into automotive literally about 2 months ago and I think I've learned more than my brain can process in that amount of time lol. I'm set on removing the engine I think. I need more power....Or want more power, like I said I'm getting the tranny redone. I don't want a 305 pushing the car. At least a 350 will do.

 

just my two cents get the 350 build it up and keep the 305 as a back up engine cant go wrong with that

 

305 will do 275+ hp with the right parts but a 350 is a better bet in the long run. Save the 305 for a back up but its likely that will never be needed

 

If you have a roller cam block, just change the cam to a LT1 out of a F body for now. You can get them for $50 shipped, and it will make a difference.

 

If you are so dead set on displacement, why even bother with a 383???? 4.125" bore +.030" block with the same 3.75" stroke is a 406 and that is where the real power is in a stock block small block.

 

If it were me, I would go carbureted 383 with a nice street/strip cam. Keeps things fairly simple, and your power goals might be easier to reach. (I don't know jack sh|t about the FI setups on these cars)

 

I just happen to like 383's, that's all. Do what you gotta do. If I were searching for REAL power, it would be found in a stroked out BB.

And plus, out of the 3 options he gave us, 383 happened to be the largest displacement.

 

In my personal experience, 383's don't make much more power than 350's. More torque, yes, but the power difference isn't worth the price tag that your going to spend on the rotating assembly and clearancing the block. 350's just plain work, and they work very well. With the right compression and parts, a 500HP N/A 350 is not unheard of at all.

Whats your budget? If your only looking for 275 or so HP then buying a 350 would be wasting money. A decent cam with the right intake and carb will do that EASILY on your 305 and being carbed, it'll rev decent too since theres no restrictive TPI. Like I said, my old 305 with ONLY a cam on the stock TPI made 235 RWHP....that equates to almost your 275 flywheel HP goal and that was a VERY mildly built engine. My cam was only a .464/.470 lift on a 112 LSA.

 

Area under the curve helps alot, and 383's have that advantage over 355's. IF you were goin with new crank/rods/pistons, its not much more to go 383. Only gotta clearance the block and thats not much money. Most shops i've seen charge 100-200 for that. Cranks are all about same price.

If you go forged, try to make a 408 out of that 350 its been done before.

 

Considering a 383 is a stroked 350 and still a SBC, yes it will.

 

get the 290HP gm long block for $1999 and call it a day. Why buy a used engine and risk the block being no good and still needing to do a rebuild? Chances are the used junker you'd buy would need the heads ported or replaced along with the engine rebuild. The GM long blocks at $2k are a darn good deal if you aren't looking for crazy power and you have peace of mind with them as well


But, a 305 is not a reason for shame. So what if the car won't run 13's??? Get it back on the road and save your money until you havr the money and time to do it. Who knows, maybe by then you'll be in college and having a honking motor won't be as important to you.

 

Well I appreciate all of he comments and suggestions you guys have given me. I THINK I'm gonna just get a 350 and if in the future I want anymore power I'll more than likely look into getting a BB. So a 350 stock with a result 700R4? I need to change my carburetor and my intake because they have electrical inputs on it and my car doesn't have a computer. Any suggestions of carbs and what cfm I should get?

 

I have 2 305's and I'm very happy with them. You will make more power with a 350 with mods as everybody knows, but 5 liters are very good engines. The displacement thing gets confusing. The 2011 mustang 302 has a smaller bore size than the 305, but produces about 412 hp and 390 lb. Horse power today just seems to comes in a can. Corvette has an option for a 3L v8 that produces over 400 hp, but interestingly the torque wasn't published. Talk about displacement issues! Enjoy your 305!

 

Your power goals haven't been specified, or your budget. Upgrading from an LG4 is very understandable. If you could find a '96-'97 vortec 350 longblock to rebuild, that would be your best ratio if practical power vs. cost effectiveness.

As far as the weight argument at the top of the thread goes, my '87 z28 with no ac, emissions, headers, no Back seats, Manuel tranny, no power windows or locks, and a fiberglass hood (all the things I can think of that reduce weight) came in at 3042 lbs. My goal is to get it as far under 3000 as I can.

 

If your going none CC carb on a 350 you'll need a vacuum advance distributor. A 350 doesnt need more than a 650cfm. I prefer Holley over edelbrock.

 

Why a 96-97 vortec 350? Any specific reason or are they just cheaper? Just curious and my budget us whatever I really wanna make it. I want a used 350 obviously because I don't wanna spend over a grand on a block. I'm just going to rebuild whatever one I get. So anything under $500 is what I'm looking for currently.

 

And yea I've heard holley is better than edelbrock but I've heard nothing bad about edelbrock.

 

I want over 350HP. That's my power goal, it has to have at least 275 before I put it on the road.

 

How much faster is a stock 350 than a stock 305? I have a 48K mile bone stock 305, and while it runs strongly and reliably, a 6 cylinder Camry could embarrass it. Still, I like that it's unmolested, which is more than I can say for many other Thirdgen engines.

 

'96-'97 vortec because (someone correct me if I'm wrong) I believe '97 or maybe '98 was the last year they used gen1 smallblocks. Vortec heads are known for bang for your buck performance and if you can find a 350 vortec longblock to pull or buy or whatever, it's a good package deal.

 

A cammed vortec 350 could easily make your 275 numbers your after. There, of course, is other factors that come into play such as fuel/air delivery and exhaust.

 

I don't mind my 305 too much. In fact, I drove from Washington State to Delaware and averaged 25 mpg. The best I ever got was 30 mpg. I am running the tpi system on top of it with a t-5 behind it. Did I do 60-65 the whole way, yes I did. The car just runs and runs.

-T

 

How many miles are on it?

 

here comes TIG sounding like a dad and being the voice of reason

you are kidding aren't you? $500??

headers and a y pipe are going to run you around $400 when you toss in gaskets and an O2 bung.

You need to face reality. If you don't have a few thousand$ for this then you are looking at trying to find a junker and hoping it's in way better shape than the seller is asking in price. And then, you have a 350HP goal and casually toss out that you will have to rebuild it.

Have you priced machine shop costs to do a proper rebuild. I use the term "proper" because others on this forum are going to tell you it will run $200-$500 and they are full of bull. You of course will want to believe them because it's what you want to hear.


So, I can obviously tell that you are young. I can tell that you are inexperienced. Did you come here for advice or did you come here for good advice?

I'm finishing up my most recent project. I restored an 89RS. I sent the 305 TBI out to be rebuilt and got it done for $1300 parts included. For that price I found, which was through contacts I couldn't do it properly myself for less. By the time you add in the fluids, new hoses, belts, headers, y pipe, gaskets, ignition I am way beyond $2,000 and that's a stock rebuild

My engine ran and I knew the disposition when I tore it down before sending to be rebuilt. There were no surprises. If you go buy a junker, it will be like opening a XMAS present, however you would have paid for the present first.

So, ask local shops what a proper rebuild including heads being done would cost for a SBC. You will find pricing anywhere from as low as I paid to well over $2k depending upon your location. That is not including the purchase price of the junk engine.

You also claim to have little experience and you will have people tell you to assemble the engine yourself. Can you afford to make a mistake? When you damage the cylinder wall will you be ok with getting the block repaired or trash it and start anew?

These are all questions that you must ask. You need to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Good luck but you have some real fact finding to do and that starts with a few 1-minute calls to several machine shops because they can quote basic and mild rebuilds in their sleep. You aren't undertaking anything that hasn't been done for decades. If you find yourself overanalyzing it then you aren't ready emotionally because you must accept that it IS going to cost more, and take more time than you wish and you must be willing to accept that.

 

^^^ Very good words of wisdom. Again, this is why I recommended just camming your 305. With the money you have to spend, you will never get a 350 in there and running good. A cam is $200.....a 350 with everything you'd need for it is MUCH more than that.

 

I just bought a "running original" low mileage 305 from a buddy of mine. After I removed the tbi mainfold to put on a carbed manifold I had a few suprises.

2 different heads - 1 swirl port (187) and 1 tpi 305 (081)
3 different pistons -6 stock pistons, 1 .005 over, 1 .010 over
.010 under crank on the rods and pistons
broken lifter
scored pushrod

and enough sludge to float the Titanic

BTW, that running engine is now at the machine shop....

 

Advice taken. But is it bad for me to want to buy a 350 for cheap and rebuild it myself to learn about it more? I can deal with screwing up.

 

A lot of good advice in here, the thing most people will tell you, and they are right, is that if you're going with a complete rebuild, is that it will cost the same amount to rebuild a 305 as it will to rebuild a 305, they are almost the same engine except for the bore size. The main difference is you already have the 305, so you will obviously have to include the price of buying the 350 into your budget.

 

The problem is that most of us backyard mechanics dont have all the specialty tools to properly build an engine. Anyone can slap a cam in or put a set of heads on but the bottom end isn't so easy. To do it right, you would have to have the block hot tanked, checked for cracks, bored, and check the head surface for proper deck straightness. That work alone is around $500 ussually. Then you need to assemble it in which case you'd need ring pliers, piston ring compressor, the pistons have to be pressed onto the rods, plastigauge to check all the bearing clearences, etc. It's just a pain and a lot of money sunk into it just to hope it runs ok. So much safer to just let a reputable shop do it for you and they will almost always offer some type of warranty as well.

Either that or buy a GOOD running 350 off of someone you TRUST! I'm sure every single person on this forum that has played with used engines has gotten burned at one point or another. Everyone thats selling a 350 will tell you it's rebuilt and it's got head work. They also all have 10:1 compression. I don't care who you talk to but everyone will tell you some hokey story about how there selling a race engine. Just be smart if you decide to buy a used enigne, and ask for receipts if they tell you it's been worked.

 

Not at all, the question is do you have the nessicary tools and equipment to rebuild it by yourself? The safest and most cost effective decision would be to have a machine shop deal with the machine work, balancing, and assembly of the short block. If you are willing to read, ask questions, take your time, and do it right the first time, chances are you can handle the task of installing the heads, cam, intake, etc. and install the assembled longblock into the vehicle. That all seriously depends on your automotive ability, access to tools, and access to somewhere to do it all. Just a couple things to think about...

 

if you mean that you just want to buy an engine to disassemble and reassemble and play and learn, then go for it. Go to the junk yard and get one for under $200 and who cares its disposition

but, you keep asking about a 350 and let me tell you what I'm reading which isn't being written by you.

You want a 350 for your car. You don't want to fully accept what a proper rebuild costs. So, you want to sway the conversation toward asking about buying a cheap 350 and rebuilding it yourself. To what end? Do you then want to use in your car something that you slapped together? .

To do it correctly the block needs to be checked, cleaned and probably bored/honed and maybe even align honed. You'll then either want to get a 3 angle valve job on your heads or buy new heads. Why should it be cleaned? Because do you really want any errant particles inside your rebuilt engine? A shop can do a good job of that. But, that means new cam bearings and I still prefer to pay to have those installed for me. If you're going to re-use the crank then you want it inspected and possibly reground.

Since you seem so hell bent on performance you may as well toss most of the parts that came with the junkyard engine. OK, the crank can be ground and the rods probably re-used after they are resized by a machine shop.

If you have read on a forum or had one of your HS buddies tell you that you can properly rebuild/build an engine for under $1k then run away as fast as you can from them. If you find an engine for $500 there is a reason it costs that.

You have been given great advice by many here including about the goodwrench 350 long block.

But, like the proverbial horse, you can be lead to water but nobody can make you drink.

good luck with which ever path you choose

 

Alright, appreciate the advice everyone. I'll just take my time and save more money and do it right the first time. You guys have a million hours more experience than I do haha so I can believe everything your saying. I wanted to add I do have access to all necessary tools for engine work, doesn't mean I'm good with them... Now that that's out of the way, if I'm going to go about making my 305 better (more performance efficient) Then should I just do a cam or what are some other suggestions you guys have?

 

I would do a cam and new lifters on the 305. Something around the .470 lift on a 110 LSA should work good with stock heads. Those things should cost only about $200. Then I'd get a new intake and carb combo. Maybe something like a performer or even an air gap intake. Also get a good carb like a holley 650 vac secondary. The intake and carb can always be swapped onto a 350 later on so your not wasting your money on those. Total money should be around $600-$700 and that engine should almost make 300 HP at the flywheel if properly timed and tuned. You may want to consider an aftermarket torque convertor too if you're staying with an automatic. Maybe a 2500 RPM stall or close to that. Car should run pretty hard for a 305 with that set up.

 

Thanks I appreciate it.