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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I too think you did all the right things for your family and with this car, bravo for doing it "right".
Hope you have many years of enjoyment with it and the family!!!
The only thing I would have done different? would have left the hood on it when I pulled the motor. (my ocd for original paint on the bolts kills me sometimes lol)
Nice to see it still has the original ALT (black nut, washer and shaft inside the pulley)
Again, very well done! enjoy!
The driver side electric fan does run with the KOEO. Does that clue us in to a certain area?
I also have another problem. The car starts up at about 1,100 RPMs at idle and gradually rises to around 1,300 RPMs.
When we unhook the connector next to the distributor the timing of the engine does not change.
The service engine light is also on.
We've tried to jumper wire the upper right 2 terminals to get the codes to flash but no codes will flash.
Any ideas or thoughts anyone can provide is greatly appreciated. I will also research this on my own.
This combination of symptoms points to a problem with the ECM. That does not mean the ECM is faulty, however.
Whenever the ECM does not recognize the PROM or reads a MEMCAL error the system will divert to backup mode, diabling the EST (like you describe), turning on the primary fan for safety (like you describe), set the SES lamp on,operate in a default rich mixture mode, and may not respond to jumpering the ALDL to retrieve codes and/or may not communicate with a serial scanner.
Very frequently the problem can be due to poor connections at the ECM and/or a poor connection of the MEMCAL. It can also indicate a faulty MEMCAL or PROM, but that is less likely.
Try cleaning the multi-pin connectors at the ECM. Disconnect the battery (either power or ground) and drop the ECM from the right end of the instrument panel in the passenger side foot well. Remove each ECM connector and carefully but repeatedly disconnect and reconnect the two main connectors. This action can wipe the contacts clean and restore connection. Before final connection, inspect both the plug and receptacle of each connector for damaged pins and contamination. Repair as necessary.
While the ECM is out of its bracket remove the access cover for the MEMCAL. Using the ejection tabs, remove the MEMCAL and repeatedly connect and disconnect it several times just as before. Inspect the pins and socket, and if intact reconnect the MEMCAL and install the cover. The battery can be reconnected and the engine started with the ECM still out of its bracket. In doing this, the connectors and wire harness can be flexed and moved a bit while the engine is running to help determine if there are any intermittent connections. If you are lucky, the cleaning alone will resolve your problems.
I did what Vader recommended today. The idle dropped to around 650 RPMs immediately, no SES light, no drivers side electric fan coming on... everything seemed right. Only problem we saw was the timing had jumped up from 8 degrees to 18 degrees (didn't matter if distributor connector was plugged in or not plugged in). But then the SES would either flicker, the car would turn off, the electric fan would come on, the idle would rise back up to 1,300 RPM's or the timing would drop back to 8 degrees. Never could get codes to flash.
Disconnected and connected the connections several times and had similar results each time. Sometimes if I just touched the ecm box it would act funny.
So I guess either the ecm, prom or memcal is bad. I'm researching replacement parts now. Anyone that wants to chime in on this is more than welcome and I would really appreciate it.
On a plus note. Everything is back together. Rearend all bolted back up. I only currently have the converters hanging on it... not exhaust after the converters right now. Sooo... get this ecm/prom/memcal thingy fixed, put a cat back system on it, touch up a few scratches, tags, insurance and on the road we go!
UPDATE: Turns out the 1227165 ecm was bad. A friend of mine let me borrow another 1227165 and it worked fine. I purchased a used 16198259 ecm and it also works fine. I am still using the original chip from my first ecm. Sert timing to 6 degrees TDC with connector unplugged. Timing seems to be advancing correctly but I'm not sure how much timing should advance when RPMs rise.
I got a used borla exhaust and will be installing it soon. Right now I have another problem. The ecm was replaced under warranty about a month after I purchased the car new. It appears to me the dealer just shoved the ecm up behind the dash and didn't bolt it in properly. Can anyone tell/show me how the ecm should be mounted behind the dash. I'm guessing it should be above or below the two bolts I have loosened and then there is this yellow thingy(I have no idea what it is) that is hanging loose behind the dash as well.
Below is the exhaust. After I get the ecm installed and the exhaust installed... I'll be ready to put this old girl back on the road again!
The ecm is mounted in a white bracket that has a locating pin on the top and screws into the lower dash support with two 7mm screws. I have had more Camaros than Birds but believe it is the same mounting. Did the dealership remount the ecm with the white bracket?
The birds have a black plastic holder (until the SD cars in 90). There is a pin on the top of the ECM holder that goes into a rubber grommet up in the dash, that locates the top, then the 2 bolts on the bottom. The yellow box just gets stuffed up in there in a way to not rattle.
The birds have a black plastic holder (until the SD cars in 90). There is a pin on the top of the ECM holder that goes into a rubber grommet up in the dash, that locates the top, then the 2 bolts on the bottom. The yellow box just gets stuffed up in there in a way to not rattle.
Save that factory catback! (or sell it to me) lol
I have it in the grommet on top. Does the black ecm bracket go on the topside or the bottom side of the piece the 7mm screws are in?
I'm keeping any original pieces that have came off this car including the exhaust.lol
The ecm is mounted in a white bracket that has a locating pin on the top and screws into the lower dash support with two 7mm screws. I have had more Camaros than Birds but believe it is the same mounting. Did the dealership remount the ecm with the white bracket?
I'll look for the white bracket when I get home. I know I can see a rubber grommet where the too if the black bracket slides in.
take the screws out from under the dash, and the ecm plastic mount goes on the bottom of the dash then the screws go back in.
That's the answer I was looking for. Thank you so much!
Everything the dealership worked on under warranty they didn't do to my satisfaction. Actually it was two dealerships. One pontiac dealer was located 30 minutes away and the other pontiac dealer (where I bought the car) was located 1 hour away. I actually had these 2 dealerships and 1 other right in my hometown quote the car and all three came up with different quotes. My hometown dealer wanted $3,500 more for the same car.
Intake gasket repair - Lost some of the intake runner bolts and replaced them with hex heads, lost the throttle cable loom and the intake gasket leaked again after the warranty expired. Plus they charged me for changing the coolant.smh
ECM repair - Did not reinstall computer properly.
Dual Cat install - My car originally came equipped with a single cat so I went back to the dealer and told them they needed to make this right since all 89's were supposed to come with dual cats. We got into a heated argument over it and I walked away mad with no support from the dealer. The very next week GM sent me a letter (I'm sure they sent everyone with a '89 the same letter) stating if your car mistakenly came with a single converter you could take it to the dealer and get the single cat replaced with dual cats or get a extended warranty. I took the letter back to the dealer and slammed it down on their desk. The guy wouldn't even talk to me just told me to come back and get the car in a week. They bent a piece of the painted body outside of the dual converter pipes... to this day I have no idea why they would have needed to do that.
Paint repair - Car was repainted under warranty. Its much better paint than the original paint but they painted my plastic inner fenders, parts of my exhaust, lost a license plate screw nut and it had a few places in the paint that were not the best. They also would not replace my decals. I was on my own for that. I ordered all the decals but only put the "formula 350" decals back on it as I didn't really like the bird decals. I may someday remove the pontiac emblem from under the driver side headlight and it would be nice to replace the bird/pontiac trunk key hole plastic piece with either a plain not lettered one (maybe a aftermarket company makes one) or get a used one and paint it to match the car. I only like the stickers on the side... none of the others. To each their own. lol
Bottom line... I was not happy with any work done at the dealer on this car.
Some pics of the car prior to waxing... got some scratches I have work on buffing out... this is still good paint but I'd like to get it repainted again someday to make up for the dealers paint job shortcomings... until that day comes I'll be happy with it. Actually once I get the ecm and exhaust installed I'll be happy to simply be able to drive it again.lol
Thank you and thanks for the input on the ecm mounting. I got the ecm mounted today. Then I turned on the radio for the heck of it and only have one of the speakers working.smh Oh well... guess after the exhaust is done the radio is next on the list.lol
It's good that you found the problem. I suspected you would once you started moving the ECM around.
BTW - Watch out for that snowman. I think he might be lying.
Yep. It didn't take long to figure out. Sometimes if I barely laid my finger on the box the car would act weird. I'm keeping a close eye on that snowman.lol
Unfortunately your dealings with the dealership are very common. They do not cater to the owner that cares for his car and wants to keep it for 30 years. It's always best to avoid the dealership for warranty problems. The only human hands touching a car should be the highly controlled ones in the factory. Dealership will always cause more damage than what you took it in for to get it fixed.
Unfortunately your dealings with the dealership are very common. They do not cater to the owner that cares for his car and wants to keep it for 30 years. It's always best to avoid the dealership for warranty problems. The only human hands touching a car should be the highly controlled ones in the factory. Dealership will always cause more damage than what you took it in for to get it fixed.
Thanks and I agree 100% on dealings with dealerships. Its a bad reflection on GM. I helped my brother put in a crate engine 350 from GM in a '85 Suburban a few years ago. This was his tow vehicle for long fishing trips and he used it a lot. The vacuum lines were bad and the previous owner had routed them wrong in some areas so he bought a brand new vacuum hose harness from GM and he got a diagram of how the vacuum hoses ran from GM. The engine ran sweet and after about 1,000 miles the valve covers started leaking oil pretty bad. The engine was under warranty so he just dropped it off to have the dealer replace the valve cover gaskets. Came back to pick it up and they had butchered up(physically cut and rerouted hoses) on the vacuum harness. The engine was missing and running poorly. It was unbelievable! How does this happen when you drop it off to simply have valve cover gaskets replaced. Unreal. My brother expressed his displeasure and the dealer purchased him a new vacuum harness and offered to install it. He got the harness but said thanks for the offer on installing it but I'd rather do it myself.lol
I haven't updated this in a while so I figured now would be a good time.
Car is running great and I've enjoy riding in it and letting my daughters drive it. I've put almost 500 miles on it and my mechanic friends said I should retorque the intake gaskets again so that will be my next project.
I did have a couple problems.
#1 The left turn signal works 98% of the time. Once and a while the left signal just stays on solid and the rear light comes on but the front does not. I haven't looked into it yet.
#2 Both headlights would not flip up properly. I ordered two sets of bushing from top down solutions to make the repair. They included great instructions for the driver and passenger side. Passenger side much easier.lol
#3 My radio quit working. Left front speaker worked, other 3 barely had a sound, very staticy, unplugged/replugged several times but it never helped. Bought a new Pioneer radio from crutchfield for $119 which included adapter plate, wiring harness and antenna plug. The staff was excellent. Radio lights up to match colors of the gauges (or you can select different colors). I did not have to cut anything in the car to make it fit. Bluetooth, android, ipod, etc. Sounds great. I like it.
I think your blinker issue is commonly fixed by replacing the bulbs. I need to do the same thing on my Formula. I am not home often, so when I have a cop behind me I just keep flicking the blinker lever up manually. Mine also likes to blink slowly sometimes...
Next time I am home on leave, I am going to replace all the bulbs on my car...
Thanks guys. Since I noticed my front turn signal bulb doesn't like up but my back one does... I'll start by replacing the front bulb and also clean and add dielectric grease to the socket. As always thanks for the info.
I haven't updated this for a while so now is a good time as any. Replacing the bulb fixed my turn signal problem.
I did install new pioneer speakers which sound pretty good. I actually thought the old ones sounded good. Crutchfield throws in all the installation stuff for free and the speakers fit without having to modify anything (crutchfield guy said I would have to modify but I didn't... they fit perfectly).
Front - Pioneer TS-G4645R 4" x 6" 2-way speakers
Back - Pioneer TS-A6966R 6" x 9" 3-way car speakers
Had a problem with my VATS. No security light coming on... no starter... no fuel. I did the resistor bypass fix. It worked great. I went to the junkyard and cut the white wire/orange sleeve plugs off of a couple cars to solder the resistors to(I didn't want to cut my factory wires). One thing I thought was interesting was my car did not have white wires with a orange sleeve but instead had orange wires(I think they were orange... I'm colorblind) with a black sleeve. Unplugged my orange wires... plugged in my junkyard resistor loop and started up just fine.
Now I noticed my headliner(roof, sun visors and t-tops) is starting to fall so I'll need to fix that soon. I also want to replace the Gatorbacks (they still look good with lots of tread... just old and hard) so if anyone has any suggestions on good tires let me know.
I converted my R12 over to R134. I simply got a low end adapter fitting from Carquest and removed the schrader valve from the original (would not work with two schrader valves stacked on top of each other). I didn't do anything with the high side fitting. I put a can of r134 oil and 3 cans of r134 in the low side... the guage read full and is still reading full after 2 weeks.
I purchased four new BFG G-FORCE SPORT COMP-2. I really liked them until I hit the interstate on our return trip to Pigeon Forge, Tennessee when they started shaking at 70+ mph on the interstate. I'm sure its just a balancing problem... I'll be taking them back to get rebalanced next week.
My wife and I drove to and from Tennessee for our anniversary. I put 1,000 miles on it between the trip and cruising the strip at the Rod Run weekend there. It was so fun! And the car did great. A couple times it didn't want to hold idle at start. I would turn off key and restart and then it would be fine. Also a couple times I could get a wiff of gas and then the car would just turn off so a second. It only did these problems a couple times (thank goodness) and it did not flash a service engine light code so I'm not sure what is going on. But overall a fantastic trip filled with lots of good memories.
Also... the Rod Run is so fun to attend in Pigeon Forge but do this if you go... go on Weds and Thurs to cruise the strip and see all the cars. The parking lots are filled with old cars and old cars are running up and down the strip all night at a decent clip. Also be sure to visit the Rod Run car show located in the convention center (at least I think it was the convention center). Its $12 to enter and there are so many nice cars to look at!
On Friday and Saturday spend you days in Gatlinburg, on the Parkway or in Cherokee. Everyone and their brother comes to Pigeon Forge and its a mess.lol Soooo conjested and Fri and Sat night (even at midnight) the traffic is stalled and rough on cars just idling down the strip 10 feet at a time. The young kids and the diesel trucks all show up and create a huge log jam. I think they were having fun though.lol
That 350 is what mine USED to look like when she was new .... BUT I will be painting her black again in the spring and all the formula graphics will be reapplied as well. I cant WAIT!!!!
One thing we have done at the Rod Run is to book a room at one of the hotels close to the center of town. On Friday and Saturday when the traffic is creeping we walk were we want to go. Believe it or not, it is faster to get around on foot!
One thing we have done at the Rod Run is to book a room at one of the hotels close to the center of town. On Friday and Saturday when the traffic is creeping we walk were we want to go. Believe it or not, it is faster to get around on foot!
Lol. I believe it. We stayed in Gatlinburg but still went to pigeon forge on the weekend some. We actually had no trouble parking. We just parked behind any of the restaurants... never even had to park beside another car... and walked to wherever we wanted to go. More older cars riding around on weds and thurs when the traffic flowed nicely... it was a perfect atmosphere on those days. We really enjoyed the entire trip though.
Lol. I believe it. We stayed in Gatlinburg but still went to pigeon forge on the weekend some. We actually had no trouble parking. We just parked behind any of the restaurants... never even had to park beside another car... and walked to wherever we wanted to go. More older cars riding around on weds and thurs when the traffic flowed nicely... it was a perfect atmosphere on those days. We really enjoyed the entire trip though.
Regarding your OEM radio, more than likely some capacitors have failed in it. If you were to want to repair it, I followed this thread to fix the radio in my 89 TA.
Regarding your OEM radio, more than likely some capacitors have failed in it. If you were to want to repair it, I followed this thread to fix the radio in my 89 TA.
Wow. Great article. I doubt ill fix it because i really like the new radio but im definitely printing off the article and putting it in the box i have the radio stored in. Thanks so much.
11-21-2015, 07:01 PM
.... BUT I will be painting her black again in the spring and all the formula graphics will be reapplied as well. I cant WAIT!!!! 
