I was wondering of this swap is worth doing? My 87 TA is Tpi and obvious running old school v-belt. Can I use my alt and PS pump? I'm running an electric Wp. I was going to order UD pulleys and since their a lot easier to get for the serp set up I was thinking of jus swaping it over. Also what are the pros and cons of doing this? Thanks in advance. I tried searching for this if there is already a thread can someone link me to it.

 

You will have to get a different alternator, yours is the same model but the ear is cast in the wrong position on the front half. You can not reclock it to fit. the P.st. you can reuse but you will have to pull the pulley off and replace it w/ a flat belt pulley.

Easiest is to get a complete front drive system off a later car, incl. the pump and everything..it's a bolt on deal.

 

Honestly I don't really understand why some people insist on this swap. Nothing wrong with V-Belts. Only advantage I could see is cleaning up the front of your engine a bit.

If you want to do it the best bet is a junkyard. Grab the alt/PS/crank pulley and swap them over.

 

http://sethirdgen.org/serpentine.htm

http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/c/l/clindh/serp.html

 

Let's see, easier to swap the belt, no need to check tension, runs smoother, no more squeeling V belts, esp on power steering, those are more than enough advantages for me.

 

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...rsion-kit.html

JamesC

 

Would this affect my electric water pump? Also, i would have to swap to a serp system in order to run a super charger correct?

 

An electric water pump shouldn't matter as long as the belt routing for direction is maintained on the rest of the accessories. I think we have members using March Serpentine Setup with electric water pumps, but I would think the OEM setup would work also.

Most superchargers are serpentine, so yes would be easier to swap if that was the case.

 

V belts supposedly sap less power from the engine

 

no dont go serp! i made that mistake and regret it! i brok my alt bracket on my serp and it left me stranded 2 times now... mind you im using a set up from a truck, just get the underdriven v belts and its a 6 dollar fix if you blow the belt vs 40

 

I did it on my camaro and it was probably the best modification I ever made. Makes changing any accessory easier, runs quieter, looks nicer.

With the electric water pump you'll have to reroute the belt and I'm not sure how that will work but it's probably doable. You'll need all new accessories. Some guy used to sell kits for $3-400 about ten years ago out of florida, not sure if he is still around.

 

I know this thread is old, but how in the world did you break a bracket? It must have been defective when you installed it, or your cracked it without noticing it. GM puts these brackets on 5.7 trucks, Suburbans, Jimmys, ect

 

GM added supports later on because the aluminium brackets failed over time. It's often not possible to use the supports with headers though.

 

I have headers on my car and installed the four support braces with no issue.

 

Was that for the TPI or TBI?

 

The GM serp kit has provision for headers. Pics of the braces/spacers can be seen in posts #16 and 17 below:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/afte...rsion-kit.html

JamesC

 

I'm seriously considering a serp belt system. Anytime I go over 6200 rpm I throw a belt off. Always the alt/water pump belt.

 

Neither. My car is a factory LG4 carb'd car. I was lucky enough to find that the passenger side head had the three holes for the serpentine bracket. No modifications needed except for minor wiring for the alternator and different hose for the AC.

 

I have heard of the dreaded broken bracket b4, most cases were because the bracket wasn't fully tightened down. (some had bolts that had bottomed out in the heads)
The early aluminum brackets had 3 metal braces per side. Then they went with 4 total later.
I removed all of my brackets years ago and have 240,000 miles on my car with original brackets on it.
Mine gets run up to 200mph and 8,000 rpm quite often. It also has 200,000miles on the SLP serp bet and underdrive I put on it in 1992 or so. (prolly should be changing that..) lol

 

I saw that yours is an LG4 I should have been more clear in asking what the serp set up was from. I have both TPI and TBI and the brackets on each are different. When I was removing them neither looked like they would accommodate headers. Good info I’ll keep that in mind. -thank you.

Hey, thanks for the link. Excellent detailed info and pics. I'll save this for later.
I'm guessing that kit is based on the TPI set up?

Interesting. I know the bolts are different lengths, so that could have something to do with it. I saved all of the bolts so I should be good as long as I double check the depth. I'm probably going to be a chicken and use the brackets if I can. -thanks.

 

The set up was from a 1990 RS tbi camaro. Got it used from an auction site.

 

Thanks. FWIW, both of mine were from '91 RS's.

 

TBI and TPI use the same brackets.
If you have different ones, they are from a vet or truck.

 

this was a 82 T/A converted with all 1990 stuff, screw the v-belt crap and hours to change them.

 

Since moving to Texas, I have been wanting to come up with a better A/C setup to replace the non working stuff on my car. I have never even charged an A/C system from a total start up (but have added charge), so it will be a learning experience. I have been accumulating tools such as a vacuum pump, hose crimper to make my own hoses, fittings, pressure switches, can valves and etc, and have been hanging out at a local shop trying to get learned up about it a little more.
Despite my lack of experience, I want to make some changes. If it doesn't work out I'll have to fall back to professionals, but I'm game to give my ideas, and learning curve, a try.

I've been rounding up some 1990 vintage Camaro/Firebird FOE aluminum brackets, bolts, brace bars and etc. I have seen the high price GM Serpentine Conversion Kit, but yikes! That is pricey! And, several people, pros and otherwise, have told me that the GM Barrel compressor is definately not the hot setup. And that is being kind. There is a company in South Fort Worth called Old Aire, that has a bracket to put a Sanden compressor in where the GM compressor goes in the Passenger Side FOE bracket. This gives you a better compressor with a divorced oil sump, and puts it on the Passenger Side so that you will not have the big A/C hoses crossing over the engine to the Driver's Side like I do now. I'm also going to move my drier/separator to the radiator support to clean up the engine bay and give better access to the right rear side of the engine. I will mock all of this up on an engine on a stand while out of the car. I may try putting water pump spacers in and space the FOE brackets out as well in order to be able to pull the RH valve cover without having to remove the compressor first. And, my old, tired 305 does not have the correct bolt holes in the passenger side head, but there is a new engine and heads in the works (a long way off!).
I've also got a bigger radiator and will probably go to an electric cooling fan set up.

Another thing I want to try is the Ford "white" plastic nozzle. It supposedly makes better cooling at lower speeds.
I will undoubtedly have to do some cutting, moving and fabrication to make this all work. It should be interesting! Now if I can just find the time to get after it, building the new engine and all.

 

If you do the Serpentine Swap, the AC compressor is on the passenger side, closer to the condensor and accumulator. No big hoses crossing over the motor.

 

Go with a serp setup, you won't regret it. I did mine and it takes five minutes to pull the WP, Or five to do the ALT. Plus you can upgrade your AC to R134 too. Provides a cleaner look. Get the brackets off a 93-95 truck or Suburban. Or a 90-92 V8 Camaro. Search Car Craft serpentine on the web they have a great article with lots of pictures, advice, and part numbers. Anyone who stays with a V-belt is delusional.

 

Im trying to look for a correct wiring diagram for my conversion. I have the large Alternator (86 IROC) and Im converting to a serp setup. I got the small alternator but Im confused about doing the 86 style passengerside wiring to the driverside small alt wiring.

 

There is a diagram for it here on TGO, just need to search firb it. It's what I used

 

What do you mean correct wiring? The heavy red wire goes to the alternator battery post. You can buy an adapter for the field wiring from Powermaster. You need the two wire adapter if you have the ALT light in the dash. What else is there?

 

Here is my 86 wiring and the 89 wiring. Im trying to figure out how to wire the small alt to the existing wires of the 86 without burning something up.

 

Would this one work?

 

I'll look at my swapped 86 in a bit here. I did this about a year ago and figured it out at that time. Have since forgot....

GD

 

I actually just purchased a set of brackets from Ozz1967, so I'd be interested to know what needs to get rewired also. Is there a difference between having a gauge and a light? I assume you still need a resistor.

 

this is the one I used to wire my serpentine kit when I replaced my v-belt set up. I had factory gauges though.

 

Awesome. Thanks man. I'll be waiting for your input.

 

Red to S pin, brown to L pin.

I bought a universal CS alt pigtail from my local parts store (likely Dorman) and the brown wire connects to the blue wire on my pigtail (field flash/battery lamp), red to red (remote sense), and the black wire on the replacement pigtail was not used.

GD

 

RIght on man. Thank you for the input.

 

Do I need to do anything to my passengers side head on my 87 and do I have to change my fuel lines?

Thanks, Ryan

 

Yes. Drill/tap mounting hole (has to be sealed - goes into cooling jacket), and you need the serp fuel lines.

GD

 

Anybody have a how-to on drilling and tapping the head?

 

Bolt up the bracket, transfer punch the hole, remove the bracket, drill and tap. Use sealant on the bolt.

If you have never done something like this I would suggest seeking professional guidance. Drilling and tapping a horizontal hole into your cylinder head that's backed up by a coolant jacket while the engine is installed in a vehicle is probably not the way to start learning to drill and tap holes.

GD

 

Thanks, I've got a toolmaker father that can help.

 

Where is a good place to find the serpentine fuel lines?

 

I got mine on eBay. You can get adapters though that will allow AN lines to be fabricated if you prefer new parts. I don't think you can get the factory parts anymore.

GD

 

Does an 87 have the right pigtail on the alternator for the serpentine specific alternator?

 

bump

 

bump

 

No

 

Do I just need to extend my alternator wiring on my 87 to use an 88 alternator?