Hey all, so got a 305 (LB9) formula stock all round.
Probably really common story I had 350 jealousy (LT1) and
(LB9 0-60 7.5 1/4 15.9, LT1 0-60 6.5 1/4 15.4)
Even though the 4th gens have a V8 LS1 (way better)
I just felt i was missing out on my gens best.
Then I found out about the TTA (Turbo Trans AM)
and its 0-60 in 5.0! with that Buick V6 and a turbo on top
After thinking about it I realized the potential this car has with power.
Unfortunately I wasnt the only who thought of putting a turbo on the 350
gauges in the hood scoop (damn!)
I now know of the ultra rare Carroll VHO Formula 350 (4 made)
With 0-60 in 4.3, 1/4 in 13.4!
(you vets probably already knew)
But I think since its 2012 its possible to be out done
And the reason I want to do it with the 350 LT1 and not a LS1
is because it seems more genuine to me!
So a LT1 with LT4 heads and intake
The intake isnt produced anymore but you can find aftermarkets who will manufacture on demand reasonably priced.
And a more modern Tubro that can produce more than the 5-6 psi Carroll
Then, take it further than Carroll did and replace the hood, fenders, bumpers door panels, seats, carpets dash and dash parts and if you have them T-tops with the lighter aftermarket alternative. If there are any other things you can get lighter please enlighten me. Combine that with modern exhaust suspension and differential and a t5 tranny and now what I think would be the finisher - a twin screw supercharger! (which also improves gas mileage correct?) Im not a mechanic by any means (yet anyway) so if that isnt possible please again enlighten me
I think it would have 0-60s below 4.0! And 1/4s of low 11s!

Thoughts? Please I am seriously about to get started on this as I am close to fully restoring my car and want to begin modifying!
Possible? Worthwhile? As fast as I think? Expensive?
And what are thoughts of how much its worth would be
changing from "Matching numbers"!

 

Whoah..... that's a lot of thinking. How much of that are you capable of pulling off? Money and skills, I mean.

I only ask because I think you were implying putting a turbo and a twin-screw blower on it which would expensive and unnecessarily complex. Most people would not attempt that, even those of us who have some significant experience.

Even just putting an engine in a car that it was never designed for from the factory is often more complex that most people think. Sure, and LT1/4 is similar but not the cooling system and not the front end accessories. Plus the ECM and wiring harness are totally different.

I'm concerned you are heading down the path where your imagination is writing checks your money and skills may not be able to cash. That leads quickly to frustration followed shortly by selling the whole thing at pennies on the dollar to the next owner. Don't be that guy.

There is nothing magical about the LT1/4 engines. They are a modest improvement over a standard Gen1 small block. An advantage that is easily overcome by the VAST aftermarket support of the earlier Gen1 platform.

If you like the look of the LT1, I might suggest, JUST AS AN EXAMPLE- a shot in the dark here- something like this:

350 roller cam block stroked out to 383ci (kits and complete engines are readily available)
A GOOD set of head- like the AFR 195 "Eliminator" heads
A well chosen roller cam from Comp or another reputable manufacturer
And the cherry on top- a TPIS MiniRam intake, which look almost exactly like the intake on an LT1/4 but fits the earlier Gen1 engine and flows much better than a factory LT1/4 intake.

You get the LOOK of an LT1/4 but with a MUCH lower level of complexity. You can run it with your existing computer and wiring harness (with a custom tune for the chip) and you keep all your stock accessories, etc. My attempt to suggest a "best of both worlds" solution.

A similar combo in my brother's pig-heavy 87 Trans Am GTA ran 12s on Pep Boys may-pop radials (no traction) trapping about 114 MPH. And that was with an itty-bitty little flat tappet cam and heads that are in no way the equal of a modern set of AFRs. No turbo, no blower, no nitrous. The combo I listed above would be faster- certainly capable of 11s with some traction.

Same combo but with lower compression, different cam and forced-induction (blower or turbo, not both) and it could easily be a 10 second ride. In any case I would NOT suggest a forced induction engine if it's your first time at the rodeo. They are more complex, more finnicky to tune and generally go "boom" much more readily if something isn't done right.

Speed costs. Only question is how fast you want to go.

 

Thank you so much for your detailed response
Really appreciate it.
Well i know it sounds like a lot, because it is, but I didnt want to just upgrade the car I wanted to make it a show piece. Ive heard from a lot of folks that I shouldnt change from matching numbers and I should keep it bare bones stock for resale value
but then I thought if I keep it genuine to what the car was back in its day at its best that would outweigh the negatives of non-matching numbers.
I dont expect this project to be completed in a drunk weekend I plan to do it piece by piece over the course of two years. I love my car so I can stay dedicated if I know what im doing.

However, if youre saying its not necessary to even change engines and i can see a dramatic change im all ears to education im new to this so I just wanna learn

Its a 305 and you said a 350
350 roller cam block stroked out to 383ci (kits and complete engines are readily available)
A GOOD set of head- like the AFR 195 "Eliminator" heads
A well chosen roller cam from Comp or another reputable manufacturer
And the cherry on top- a TPIS MiniRam intake, which look almost exactly like the intake on an LT1/4 but fits the earlier Gen1 engine and flows much better than a factory LT1/4 intake.

That was almost a different language to me
So a 350 roller cam block? IDK what is that an engine?
with 350 ci grinded into a 383ci? wont that use more gasoline?
I get what heads are kinda but are those for a 305 or 350?
Ive heard the the 305 cam is super small (whatever that means)
and is more restrictive however
you said you had a friend with a super small cam preform well with shitty tires. Im curious of that.
And what is this Ram intake? Does it change the hood to that nostril hood.
I hate the nostrils lol but I dont mind a holley super intake.

 

Holy hell bro. I know you are new and it takes a lot of time to understand every little detail, but you have to do some of the work on your own. February of this year, I thought the runners on my TPI intake were headers. That's how fresh I was. Now, I'm redoing my engine's entire bottom end, camming it, and installing an HSR intake. All of this I have prepared in the past eight months by reading and researching a STUPID amount of tech articles and threads. I have no other car people in my family save my uncle, and we don't converse much. So it is possible to become proficient on your own. Do what I did: Someone tells you something you have never heard of before, research it specifically. Do that for EVERYTHING. I'm trying to help you help yourself, so just start reading. Maybe start with heads and cams, like duration, lift, cfm, valves, etc.

 

Zen, we're all here for questions that you might have.. but at your position - it's like you asking to be a Math professor in one day. I've been doing this stuff for years and I STILL have a long ways to go. There's other guys on here that know more than I could ever fathom, and even they will say the same thing as me. There's a lot of technology into the world of cars, and you'll be lucky if something "clicks" overnight. It took me a few weeks to understand how to pick the right types of camshaft profiles based on engine demands and camshaft dynamics/theory, and I feel lucky to say that.

You need to do reading, and a LOT of it. You need to see the "facts" of how things work, the actual results, the subjective results (opinions), and the unknown factors involved. When you've seen enough of those, you start seeing correlations that you can base your thoughts on for direct application. Remember, though that correlation is NOT causation and what works for someone else might not work for you. My built 350 might destroy someone else's 383 stroker. In the same token - someone else's 305 might just roll me over like I'm sitting still. Engines are very math intensive, and like real math - there's multiple ways of getting an equal or greater result if things are prepared properly.

I think we as a humans have a firm understanding of how engines work, but we definitely haven't explained everything. It's half the reason why there's aftermarket cams, cylinder heads, intakes, and so forth. Cylinder head A makes horsepower by 1+2=3 (I'm making a farfetched comparison to math here). Cylinder head B makes it by 5-2=3. Some of us that are really smart however, learned that we can take the square root of 9 and that also gives us 3... but how did those people know that? Through LOTS of time and figuring things out from trial and error. We're still using the same basic foundation (Mathematics), but HOW we got those results is slightly different... if that makes sense.

You're asking basic questions that can probably be cleared up from one of David Vizard's books as a good starting point. Find something in his book you don't understand? Google it, and see what you find.. then continue where you left off.

 

And take anything Vizard says with a HUGE grain of salt. It will definitely be good for you to be exposed to that stuff, just understand it's one guys philosophy.

 

Yep, I agree here fully. David Vizard is an educated person, but he didn't invent cars.. and the same will apply when you talk to any "tech" out there. I guarantee if you call three different techlines about cylinder heads for the typical "which is best" you're going to get three very different answers. The funny thing is - they might all be right, too.

People's opinions should be taken as such.