Newbuyer

I had a supposedly high performance coil pack give me fits on an opel manta. I had just changed the engine so I was looking everywhere. It ran great , then would just spit and sputter. Finally I went to a shop that had extra parts laying everywhere and started changing things out. Turns out after everyone talked about the carb , and everything else on the car a stock coil made it run right. Coil packs can be bad and still work at times , just enough to fool you.

Pocket

iTrader: (24)

305 TPI's got 19lb injectors
350 TPI's got 21lb injectors, some people say 22lb. Close enough

Google it if you want. Whatever size you want, Id google the ford equivalent and grab a set from the JY or cleaned set off ebay

Mrs.Crasher0083

Been running my Camaro with a trash TPS for about 2 weeks now and it hasnt htrown one code....and yes the TPS is bad. Swapped it out from my other Camaro and problem was fixed. But yeah...it dont always throw a code.

Gumby40

Ok guys I changed the ECT sensor again no sealant this time, started good no engine light. I let it set for an hour and restarted it and Check Engine Light came on again. So here is the results of the scan again.
42 Elecronic Spark Timing (EST) Problem..........................
RPM-------------------------700 02(mV)----609 Integrate-------------------128
open/clsd loop------------open Exhaust Oxygen-----------rich
TPS (v)---------------------0.56 block learn-----------------128
IAC Position----------------145 FT cell------------------------1
O2 Ready---------------------no O2 crosscounts--------------0
Base PW (mS)---------------1.8 Decel Enlean---------------no
coolant (C)-------------------85 A/F learned-----------------no
MAF (9m/Sec)------------------7 MAT (C)--------------------32
load/L v8----------------------45 Airflow(gm/Sec)-------------7
Knock--------------------------no Spark Advance (c)----------0
Prom ID---------------------9521 Knock Retard (c)-----------0
Battery (v)-------------------14.1 Fuel Pump (v)------------14.1

Gumby40

I just wanted to add that i read somewhere that GM had a prom change? i couldnt tell ya if this has been changed or not, a friend is suppose to call me tomorrow or stop by and look at it (he worked at the dealership). Thanks again

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

that scan id is a aum did you ever check post #4.
The ECM doesn't monitor the BYPASS line, it monitors the EST output to the ICM. The ICM will clamp the EST line to ground when the BYPASS line to the ICM is open, which the ECM also controls.

When the engine isn't running the ECM holds the BYPASS line low. In turn the ICM sparks at the base setting and clamps the EST line low.

During this time if the ECM sees the EST line toggling it sets code 42

the code 42 will also be set if the est is disconnected for timing and the battery needs to be disconnected to clear the code.

Gumby40

ICM stands for Idle Control Motor?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

ICM = Ignition control Module it is in the distributor hook to the four wire lead.

Gumby40

I can understand getting a bad one but I changed that one twice, even had the old one tested. But I'll order one from the dealership and take that one back to Advance.

Gumby40

The Snap On book also mentions a Power Control Module controlling timing in conjunction with the module. Ive never heard of a Power control module?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

Your car doesn't have a Pcm , Check the tan/white wire form the flat 4 icm distributor connector to the ecm pin D5 for being shorted to ground or open or corrosion even through the est bypass connector. I sent you a pm regarding the aum.

Gumby40

Ok, I did mention earlier that the (black plastic)connector inside the distributor seemed brittle but I didn't know what it was called. I'll just add that to the list from the dealer tomorrow. I traced the wires from the distributor to the connector and then to the firewall. Looks brand new.

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Delphi-GM-4-...6f846d&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Lisle-14900-...item4d0781f772

[IMG][/IMG]

Gumby40

Yea I checked that EST connector, no corrosion or Fraying. Im gonna try to upload some pics.

Gumby40

Ok, I have no idea how to upload pics! hahahaha

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

host them on photobucket or any other picture hosting site and put the link in the picture icon here.

Newbuyer

Your scanner says its running rich? If it were a carb I would say a stuck choke. your engine thinks it doesn't get above app. 150 Farenheit? Could that be making the engine run to rich? Have your injecctors been ruined by ethanol? bad gas with ethanol becomes corrosive. Not that I am getting anywhere with my camaro , just tryin to help. I'm sure you already went through and cleaned every plug and connection. Have fuel lines been blown down? I hope you getit soon, it sure gets frustrating at times.

Gumby40

Well today I've got to remember who borrowed my timing light and then order a new GM control module and connector for inside the distributor. Also did you notice the scanner said the Prim ID was 9521? Would this be an updated number or do I need to pull the ECM again? Trust me if it were a carbed engine I would have already removed the ECM and bought an MSD dist. And and put a MSD 6A on it hahaha

Gumby40

Does this car have a knock sensor, and would the symptoms be associated with what's going on? I did notice on the readout it said no but I've seen them listed for this thing.

afremont

Unless you are in the arctic, your MAT (manifold air temp) sensor isn't working. That would make it run very rich in open loop mode. Your coolant sensor looks fine.

EDIT: Never mind, I see it's +32C not -32C. That looks ok, sorry.\

EDIT2: Your IAC is awfully high for a warm motor. Is your PCV blocked?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Your car should be in closed loop, is your car even warmed up in this datalog?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Your BLM's aka. as LTFT or block learn is always going to be at 128 in open loop (warm up mode) and of course engine temp is going to be at like 150 too when the engine is still cold. That is why i asked ,is your car cold still?

Tuned Performance

iTrader: (92)

I guess you don't see my post I asked this is #56 That is the scan for a aum. If it is indicated bye the numbers on post #4 a bad calibration I can update it to even a 89 and you could unplug the 9th injector.
The engine is at 185 F in this snap shot, The engine can go into closed loop as soon as 104F as long as the o2 is between 5-600f and is swinging.

IROCZ1989

iTrader: (1)

Another thing to consider is sensor replacememt brand. Trust me you get what you pay for in terms of tps and idle sensors. Autozone crap i dont use. Napa carries good name brands. One other thing to think about is how long the car sat. Corrosion sets in everywhere especially the time this car has sat. Plus one thing no ones mentioned., mice. You may know all wires are not cut, but mice love wires and love to nest under the dash. Ask me how i know.... My car sat only two years until I found a nest in my hatch motpr area and under the rear seat as well as numerpus turds throughout the car. Plus they chewed wires off the hatch motor. Let us know what you find.

Gumby40

I'm sorry but a lot of these terms I'm not familiar with and don't mean to ask questions twice. I will consider updated the computer by you, but right id like to just keep it running for more han a cpl miles. My oldest hot rod is a '68 and I never fooled with anything around this year. I have checked about every wire visible to the human eye on this car hahahaha. I also ordered a new oxygen sensor because it won't hurt. If I'm home tomorrow and the parts come in I'll put them on and run the car and cross my fingers. Just think I sold his good running Ford when he got this thing hahahaha (no offense guys) Again thanks for all the help

Vader

AS for the comment about closed loop, remember that an engine sitting at idle without a heated O² will transition in and out of closed loop pretty regularly. The "rich" indication of the O² and no crosscounts points to a weak/failed sensor or connection.

Gumby40

Ok, here we are are again. I replaced all the injectors with Ford orange top injectors replaced O2 sensor, changed oil and set the timing at 6 degrees. Started right up ran GREAT drove it 7 miles and the check engine light came on and it died. Let it sit for as long as it takes to smoke a cig and cranked it enough to run batterry dead, my Wife came to the rescue with jumper cables. Cranked and cranked and cranked with no start, just to ease my mind I unplugged the EST wire and the piece of crap started right up. Im about done with this car. Any guesses are appreciated Gumby

tzim350HO

What were the codes you got again?? I had a similar problem with mine when i bought it

tzim350HO

YES! YES! YES! Thats why i asked you what your previous codes were! I was having next to identical problems with my car! I didnt pay attention if anyone told you where its at, located on the passenger side screwed into the block close to the starter. If you take it out have a pan near by because you will lose the coolant from the block. If the hole is blocked off with rust or buildup just break it loose with a screwdriver (mine was). My advice CHANGE IT!!!! I went through a pissing match to the point where i was ready to blow the dam* thing up! I kept getting the same code 42 and i didnt dare take it anywhere because i knew it was going to die and leave me stranded! This is what i know! Its running rich because the computer doesnt know how to compensate for timing going crazy! Just make sure when you buy one IF you buy one that its the right one! There is two different ones for the 305 and 350, one has white plastic on top and the other is black!

Gumby40

I havent checked the codes since i got home, I HATE THIS CAR!That the funny thing the check engine light wasnt on the whole time i drove it. I did noticed it was running awfully hot, around 220 maybe a little above that.

Gumby40

You say these are the same type of problems your car was having? I let him drive it to school and back because its only a mile or two, if this was my car i woulda traded it off for a Mustang $1,000 ago hahahahaha. Ill try the knock sensor since it wont break me up, but im sure like everything thing else on this car itll be a B@tch to get off or get to.

Richboll

Subscribed...want to see how this turns out. Good luck!

tzim350HO

I know the feeling. Don't use a socket on the hex head on the new one. You can damage the sensor that way. It's a breeze once you get it loose. Might want to find a way to get some pliers or whatever you may have to make it easier. It's easy to find. It'll just have a 1 wire plug on it under there

tzim350HO

Heres some info i have........

Gumby40

Ill change it for sure but it only happens after a cpl miles of driving, does the EST wire have any thing t do with it? I mean this thing will boil the tires for the first mile or two but drive it around a few more miles and BAM your stranded. On a lighter side I just love telling him I put Ford injectors in it hahahahaha

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Knock sensor code is CODE 43. Not code 42. You can get a code 42 when you don't plug the EST connector back in though.

tzim350HO

Yep. Mine used to make me absolutely crazy. If the sensor is bad it doesn't always throw a code for it. The timing is going nuts and that's why the engine stalls after it starts to warm up. I changed everything on my car to a T of what you"re saying you changed. Except I used lt1 injectors. When you unplug the est it's disabling what the sensor is telling the computer so you can set the timing but they still run terrible unplugged. That's why it started for you.

Gumby40

It just stumped me when I unplugged the EST wire and the d@mn thing started right up, its like something is telling the dist. not to fire. Tomorrow Ill check the codes and reply back, I thought the knock sensor worked off vibration of a knock and not temperature.

VincentZ28

iTrader: (2)

A bad oil sending unit may shut the car off too. It might be acting like a saftey devise if the oil pressure is too low.

tzim350HO

yes but the knock sensor is what tells the computer to adjust the timing. when theres a problem with timing you will get the 42 code.

tzim350HO

Not on that old of a vehicle sorry. these vehicles were not equipped with anything of that nature!

Gumby40

I thought of the sending unit but its dry and the car holds good pressure evn when it starts to die, but I do understand things go bad.

tzim350HO

Yeah it took me a little bit to figure that out with mine! It doesnt work off of temperature. i has something to do with when the car is warming up and changes from open to closed loop. alot of your sensors dont even start operating untill you get some heat in the motor. i know it sounds crazy. I went a million times over this with mine. late nites and pissing the woman off for never be home and lack of sleep thereof! just a rough bit all around

Gumby40

Ill jack it up again tomorrow and look for the knock sensor on the block. I even hate to ask but do I have to take half the engine apart to chang it? It seems everything on this car is hidden behind five other things hahaha.

tzim350HO

I know it makes you want to think that maybe its an oil sending unit issue but those cars will lock up the motor tighter than a ticks *** before the computer turns it off over oil pressure. Ive felt your pain and aggravation! I read the posts and i had to give my 2 cents on this from my experience!

Gumby40

Hey I appreciate any advice from someone who has felt the pain of something like this.

tzim350HO

no its a pretty straight forward approach. just have pan nearby because coolant will come out of there and if it doesnt clear the hole with a screwdriver. 1 wire plug, and make sure the new one is identical, of course it will be shiny but the palstic should be white if i remember correctly. 350s are black, dont hold me to it for a fact its been awhile lol

Gumby40

Well he works at Advance Auto Parts and since its his car he buys the thing but I have to do all the wrenching. Like I said earlier if this car wasnt given to him buy his Grandfather (who bought it new) I wouldnt put too much effort towards it.

tzim350HO

I understand! Sentimental value takes over

Gumby40

How do you go about posting pics? Id love to post some pics of how we found it after sitting for 12 years and what it looked lie after we sprayed 12 years of dust off it.