I just bought a camaro. It was supposed to be an 88 iroc z28. I found out it is an 86. I'm not sure if it someones cobbled up mess or it is an iroc z28. It has tpi , and has the stickers. the vin number is : 1G1FP87F0GN183677. I tried to search the vin but can't find anything. The car read a little over 74k , and isn't to bad looking. Also it does not run. I was told it ran until a tire shop put it on a rack and brought it down and it would not start after. I have not looked at it yet. The wiring is what the seller says is wrong with it. he says it needs a new harness , which means nothing at all to me. A shop told him that. I guess it doesn't get fire. Any common things that can go bad like that? One bad wire does not mean you need a new harness unless you run a crooked shop ,lol. I got the car for relatively cheap to help the guy with christmas , now I'm not sure i got what I paid for. Any advice will be appreciated. Oh I just saw an add for an electric supercharger, do they really work? I often thought about that possibilty but never saw it before.

 

Welcome to TGO, Newbuyer.

If it's an 86 IROC, check the RPO's for B4Z. The following info may prove useful:

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/hist...-car-iroc.html

 

10th digit of VIN = G; that's 86
8th digit of VIN - F; that's a TPI 305

Good chance it's an IROC, for whatever little difference that makes in PRACTICAL, ACTIONABLE terms, at this point... since you've already bought it. Ya know, it's kinda nonsensical to FIRST BUY SOMETHING, then get on the Internet and post about "it isn't what I thought it was" type stuff.

But that doesn't matter too much, since most of what made the IROC package different from other cars, was either STICKERS!!!!!, or is all wore out now the same as any other car of the same age and history, and can be replaced with better stuff than it came with regardless, so it doesn't make any real difference what you're putting in the trash. Since you already bought it, time to quit worrying about what it is or isn't, and knuckle down to the business of making it what you want it to be.

I'd suggest, first thing, find out why it doesn't run. I seriously doubt it's "wiring". Which is not to say that the "wiring" is all OK, only, that it didn't go bad from being on a rack. I'm reminded of when my late little bro worked in a Buick store, and some Roadmonster or somehting came in on a hook. On a hook, mind you: the car was driving down the street, and stopped working. So he assigns it to one of his techs, who comes back with a list of plugs, wires, injector clean, Opti service, fuel pressure regulator, .... about $750 estimate; and says, he can't find out why it stopped running until he changes all that stuff. Needless to say, my bro invited the tech to seek alternative career options at other places of business, on the spot (this not being the first time this tech had com eup with stooopidity like this). Turned out of course it needed a water pump, like that kind of motor always does; wasn't even on the tech's laundry list.

The point of the story being, the car was WORKING, and DROVE ITSELF to the tire store; so whatever is wrong with it that made it STOP WORKING, is most likely ONE SIMPLE THING somewhere. ALl you gotta do is find it. Go back to the basics: air/fuel, spark, compression. Attack it with LOGIC instead of panic. You can be fairly sure the compression didn't go away on the rack (although it might have, in the form of the timing set, but let's not go there just yet), so eliminate that from your list of suspects. You can shoot fuel into the TB and see if it starts; if it does, it's a fuel problem, if not, it's a spark problem. This is not brain surgery here, it's just a car, pretty basic simple easy stuff. Don't take somebody else's word for it, THINK!!!!! if they ACTUALLY KNEW what was wrong with it, it wouldn't still be not running, RIGHT? So the fact it's not running is POSITIVE PROOF they DON'T HAVE A CLUE what the problem is, so therefore ignore their drivel and do your own investigation. Be intelligent about it.

Do that, come back and tell us the results.

 

hey thanks for the replies. Now I'm not sure whether to be offended or not by sofakingdom. I know how to check for fuel , air , and spark. I was simply asking for common problems with camaros that could cause this to happen from one start to the next. For example with older mopars I would say change the ceramic block on the firewall. On other cars I would say check the theft system. On others it could be a safety cut off switch triggered accidentally. I did consider the fuel pump already , having had a few go out before. The guy specifically said it is not getting fire. As far as the numbers go , I thought they may make a difference on the cars value. I also know about aftermarket performance parts. (which parts are best are always a big debate). I asked for friendly advice , not to be be-littled or talked to like a retarded kid.
I just got the thing last night , haven't looked at it yet. It's not like someone brought it to me and I had time to look everything over. I had to travel and pick it up. I can get my money back from it by parting and scrapping it out if need be. It is solid bodywise. So anyway you are saying pretty much Camaros do not hold decent value and it wouldn't matter if it were original or what the numbers are?
I will look it over and go through it. And I did try to look up the vin , but could not find out what the options or package are. Thanks for telling me F is TPI. I had figured out that G meant 1986 already. Any more info on the vin will be appreciated. Is there a list or database for the meanings of option numbers and letters?
And thanks for the link from JamesC. I will look at that now. I do appreciate the help from everyone.

 

There's no specific things to look at; just the usual suspects the same as any car. Shoot starting fluid in it, etc. Handle it in a logical and orderly mental fashion and you will always get to the root of it.

Yes that is correct about "value". And it's not "Camaros" as such; it's more, cars built since about 1973. ANY brand, ANY model, ANY year. After that, the whole "culture" around cars evaporated, and isn't coming back; no car will have the kind of "value" that goes with "numbers matching" and all that, because after that time frame, NOBODY CARES any more. These cars, just enjoy them for what they are (fabricated useful metal objects) and don't pretend that they are "cultural icons" like the 60s muscle cars were AND STILL ARE, because they never did, do not now, and never will, occupy that "shrine" in people's minds.

 

Ok. well I had a look. this is going to be a nightmare. Almost every plug is damaged. All of the heavier ones seem burnt. I can't get the starter to turn over yet. The power gets taken away from the electric fan that stays on always. I did find a loose plug going to the fuel pump. I can see why a shop told the guy a new harness was needed. one component mounted to the windshield washer fluid tank has the wires all bare and one only has a few strands left (looks like a voltage regulator). A new harness would only be the start. I see stripped wires everywhere where someone tried to diagnose things. Some people should not be allowed to own cars or at least open the hood. I guess I'll try hot wiring the starter to see if it is bad or the wiring is the culprit. With so many burnt plugs/connections I'm really not sure where to start. I think getting it to turn over may be first priority. The oil is dark but no water or metal flakes so far. I almost need another camaro to sit beside me to look at. As far as finding the RPOs, I found a replced sticker in the console that has the number 1G1AP8712EL135752 on top. I found E5Z and E9Z and ZJ7 containing Z's. Is that supposed to match the vin? If so it is from an 84 but what would the 1 stand for in the 8th position? No B4Z. I guess I could take the carpet up and look for documentation on the floor board. A camaro I was helping restore a few years ago had a sheet under the carpet.
I did jump into this without looking close enough. It's not impossible but it will take a lot of work. I did hope to have the better sway bar and steering of the irocz. The body is good and t tops dont leak. lol .Anyone want to buy a nice camaro body and engine and tranny? lol

 

Also the tach is stuck maxed out , the temp guage goes from max to min by turning key , yeah some definite wiring problems.

 

OMG good luck with the project and throw up some pictures when you get a chance.

 

Unfortunately,you'll get alot of that here.

Good luck with it though,at least parts are still relatively cheap and available.

 

That means he likes you. Welcome to our club!!!

 

Welcome to the board. Temp gauge will max out and go back to min when you turn the key to the start position. Thats normal. Tach needle is probably stuck. Main thing with the harness is to find out whats factory and whats been put in by previous owners. If theres aftermarket wiring, should start removing them so you can start eliminating possible wire issues and repair the factory wiring. If there's bad connectors, most are readily available and can be replaced. First thing first is to get it cranking and get it to start. Once you can get it running, then you can focus on fixing other issues. It'll probably take some time but we are all here to help fellow thirdgen owners keep there car on the road or fix problems. Dont hesitate to ask questions no matter how stupid they might sound and pics are great so we can see what you have going on. Search function is a great help too because the topic might already been discussed. Also, someone has replaced the console or something because the RPO sticker in there with the VIN doesnt match the cars VIN. Cant rely on it for anything with that RPO sticker. The 1 in the 8th postion on that stickers VIN is a 2.8L V6 2bbl carb.

 

Here is a break down of your VIN. 1G1FP87F0GN183677
1 - US built
g - general motors
1 is the make - chevrolet
fp is the carline/series - camaro/sport coupe
87 is the body type/restraint system - coupe 2 door plain back
f is the engine - 5.0L 305 TPI
0 is a check digit
g is the year - 1986
n is where the car was built - Norwood, OH
1 usually means its a camaro where as 2 usually means its a firebird but its part of the rest of the #'s.
83677 are production sequence #'s

 

the '82-89 tachs can get stuck"maxed"if power is cut off from the tach while it is reading at higher RPM- i think the tach will correct if engine revved to high RPM.

 

Dont mind sofa, he's just in the habit of telling you how it is with no regards to feelings just so people get the real idea of what's going on. It's just his way of flirting with you.

Anyway, the sheet you found with all the codes in it is what you're looking for, but it appears to come from a different car as the vin number you listed earlier. The VINs should match. You may have just found the options for an 84 with that VIN. You may need to find out if your car is actually an 86 or an 84. Could have been one of those chop shop specials where they tried to swap the engines and hide VINs and couldnt figure out how to make it work... ended up being a cobbled together car of questionable identity. TPI didnt come out until 85. Chances are that interior piece just came from an 84. But that should give you something to keep in mind, there are apparently parts from at least 2 different cars in it.

If the wiring harness is completely fubar'd, I would just buy a used TPI engine harness from ebay and throw that in there. Just make sure its from the same year. You can make ones from different years work fairly easily, but there are year to year differences you'll need to account for. The otehr option, of course, is to carb it. But I hate doing that to a TPI car. The TPI system is kind of crap for high RPM power, but it's still decent. One of the better factory EFI systems for Gen I sbc's (1955-2003, although they werent used in the F-bodies or Y-bodies after 1992, and 1991 respectively) but its not a terrible idea given the circumstances.

Sofa is right on about numbers matching not meaning diddly for these cars. For extremely rare versions that are left completely stock (Turbo trans ams, maybe?) it can be the difference between a 4-8k car and a 12-15k car, but you're never going to be able to sell tehse things in 30 years for 10 times what they were sold for new, even if you dont account for inflation. 1973+ domestics just dont hold that kind of value. They just werent cultural icons in an influential time in American cultural history the way the 1950-1973 cars were.

 

Easiest way to know if the car is an 86 is, is the third brake light up on the outside of the rear hatch glass up by the hinges? That is a one year only thing. 87 to 90 the put the third brake light in the rear spoiler and 91 to 92 they put in on the inside of the rear hatch glass up by the hinges.

 

Easiest way to know if the car is an 86 is, does the VIN say so?

3rd brake lights can be changed, but the VIN doesn't lie.

As far as the wiring, if somebody has really been that hard on it, best thing to do might be to look for a wrecked car to get that out of; or, a car that needs whatever this one has that's good, to use it to repair. If you have some skill with electricity though, none of the plugs on these cars are any different from any other GM cars of the same vintage; you could conceivably go to the buzzard and start picking up what you need in the form of "pigtails", possibly even by getting a whole harness out of something and chopping out the relevant pieces.

 

I should not have taken offence to sofakingdom. He was trying to help

 

Indeed I was.

And I assure you, no offense taken.

 

I am looking into finding out how to get the plugs , terminals , and seals to make a harness. I am an electrician, but for industrial , commercial and residential apps. Many jobs I work on use DC and signal , but without a schematic , knowledge of what's what and being able to aquire the parts GM or aftermarket companies can it doesn't help much. 400$ ballpark for a harness is just to much for what it is. I realize a big part of that price is in knowledge and engineering , so if anyone has any ideas on how to get that info let me know. Meanwhile I will be trying to look into it. Maby all of us together could break into the markets for all sorts of more affordable aftermarket products without paying high overhead costs of company executives that don't do much other than syphon big money from other's hard work.

 

There are any # of places that sell Weatherpak terminals; but I think once you look, you'll see, that's not a real cost-effective option.

I've always done the junkyard thing... either cut off what I need to replace, or take the thing with me that it needs to plug into, or take a pic or dwg; every one of those connectors is PLENTIFUL. Do a good clean job of twisting em up, soldering, and heat-shrinking, and it'll be as good as new.

 

Everybody has to make excuses for the sofa.

 

well i took a few pics. They are decent pics for being taken in the dark. Now how to get them on here?

 

Did you get a Title? What year does it say?

I'd be awfully concerned about buying a car the seller states in one year, and its not.

Did you get a vin check to make sure its not stolen?

Defiantly 86 model under the hood. V belts, and perimeter bolt valve covers.

 

Looking at the other pics, the door mouldings look like they are from a S/C not a z or iroc, the wheels are def 85-87 and the rear hatch does not have a third brake light which almost makes it look like an 85, or early, early 86. Like stated above all these things can be changed after the fact, just things I noticed.

 

hey thanks guys. yes I have a title and it matches lol. I know some parts have been changed. So if it is not a true iroc my sway bars and stering ratio will not be as good? The steering ratio seems really tight. doesn't take much of a turn at the steering wheel to get the wheels to turn a lot. It is pretty hard to steer without power steering, seems harder than normal cars without power steering, or i am not as strong as i once was. in the late 80's chain towing was acceptable lol. i worked on cars even in the snow on the side of the road many times. I can't make myself do that stuff anymore lol

 

Got an update. I bought a chiltons , some brake cleaner, and cleend up a few connections to relays , still nothing. Then on a hunch I hot wired the solenoid and it fired right up after 2 cranks. I don't think that guy that had it ever drove it. The wiring has been rigged up though. brake lights unplugged simply because the switch was loose. hot wire ran to cooling fan because relay plug is junk , i assume. Wires clipped off on hot wires coming off of starter/battery side. I have doubts on it even being original tranny and engine. so if I can't find a break in the wire between the solenoid and switch , could it just be a bad switch? That wiring is hard to follow. I'm gonna take her for a spin tommorrow and then search wires again.

 

subscribed and you probably know this but the back glass isn't a 1986

 

I'm really not sure what is anything on that car at this point.Although the vin number matches the title and it was a tpi v8 car. Is it the original v8? no idea. On the older mopars the engine number was right near the starter on the block(small block). The big blocks (RB family) had numbers right near the top of the water pump on the raised block part. Where are chevy numbers at?

 

Partial Vin will be stamps just infront of the passenger side head. You'd probably have to take off some accessories to see it.

Judging from the underhood pic, the engine looks complete and correct, I'd be suprised if it had been swapped.

Most shade tree swaps I have seen rip off all the emissions stuff.

As for your wiring issues, I would buy another harness. You cna find lots of them on ebay, and here.

 

looks original '86 under the hood except has later radiator upper mount with '88-92 belt diagram sticker.

 

I took her for a drive. The transmission tries to bark the tires when I put it in drive. Idle is slightly high. It also wants to get into second and then third within a few seconds. I can't get it to shift down to one manually. It does have some get up and go, although it's been a while since I drove a V8 car. It doesn't seem to want to shift down when I try stomping on it. I guess the linkage may need adjustment. I think it's at least a 4sp. It's supposed to haveoverdrive and I felt it go through 4 speeds , really fast though. brakes feel weak , more maintenance lol. I may have found a cheap harness local , and a 350 from an 88 or 89 for it out of an 86 camaro with tpi on it supposedly. Seeing is believing though. Tryin to get the guy to separate them.

 

Oh yeah , something a little strange , the top hose wanted to suck shut when I had it cooling down and idling with the fan hooked up ,(remember I undid much of the previous owners mess of added wires). I just saw an add about newer generation of 5.7 's that use reverse flow cooling systems. Wouldn't that be nice to find out it has a 5.7 out of the 90's? Wishful thinking? Could be why my starter wires (battery side) have three leads coming out that were doubles , each with its twin lead clipped off?

 

Well that didn't pan out. The engine they are talking about had the distributor in the front. And a diiferent block and heads. It just used the same bell housing pattern and engine mount pattern. Oh well. And it was a vet engine.

 

Electric Superchargers are total bullshit, don't do it.

 

Yeah you're talking about the LT1. The Generation 2 smallblock. It was put in vettes in 92, f-bodies in 93. Also was put into caprices and roadmasters and other such land yachts. The optispark is the big identifier if you are not good with intake manifolds.

 

Thats what I was thinking?!

 

It sounds like you got yourself quite a project there. For what it is worth the pictures look like the body is decent anyway. If you like to tinker and have patience you could end up with a decent driver. Good luck.

 

Hello Newbuyer, if you're looking for replacement connector ends to repair your engine wiring harness I'd suggest you try TPI parts.net. They make GM grade wiring and connector ends for your TPI system. I also suggest you might want to purchase the GM shop manual for your car, which covers detailed wiring schematics for your car, since your limited with information covered in any Haynes or Chilton's manual. You can find a good used one on ebay for around $15-$60. Also, if your wiring harness is really in disrepair, then perhaps you might be able to find a good used one on Ebay also. Just make sure it's for the 1986 TPI only and not the 1985 1226870 harness or the later 1987 harness, because that harness has duel fans unless you wish to retro fit that one. Anyways, hope this information helps and happy new years to all!

 

have you had any luck figuring anything out yet?

 

From looking at wiring diagrams i see that the nuetral safety switch is in the shifter console. The console has been replaced so I'm guessing that is where my starter switch isn't working. I'm a little tied up on cash flow and a good work area for this project , now I will be out of town away from it for a good while. I can't commit to really tearing into it. Oh by the way I think someone has put duel fans on it already, I'll have to look again. Thanks for alll of your help.

 

Also I did get a harness from a junkyard camaro, I'm sure it isn't the correct year, but many plugs and connectors are the same. I got the relays with it also and I think the ECM (located on drivers side firewall) also. I can already see added and re-routed wiring to bypass differant circuits. Man I wish I had a better area and more time. This car does run now, just not with everything working as intended. The ignition and TPI seems to be working fine, the shifting is a little off for kickdown acceleration and it goes really fast through the gears. Seems to have decent power.

 

By looking at the pictures you posted, it looks like someone had already tried adapting the duel fan setup from an 1988-1992 camaro, judging by the serpentine belt diagram on the radiator fan support. This is good sign that you at least have those original duel fans with the plastic brackets if they are not cracked or broken. Usually a used duel fan set-up could run you from $70-120. Perhaps later on with time, you can retrofit that set-up with a 1987 or even a 1988 TPI harness and rebuild the original fan circuit to factory specs with a lower temperature fan switch, and a reprogrammed fan temp on the PROM. Don't worry it takes time to get everything where you want it. Also try readjusting the T.V cable on the intake plenum to see if your tranny will respond right on shifts, and check the tranny fluid if its a dark brown color and does not smell as if were burnt. Hope this helps.

 

Yeah it helps. Someone had the fan tied in to the fuse block and ignition , bypassing the circuit completely. I hate seeing garbage like that. The work space is very tight on these and hard to get to and see. I guess I should start removing everyhting I can to gain access, but like I said I'm crunched for time and garage space.The sterio is hot wired also. It does have leads for an amp already run but not from the battery like it should be. Why people butcher wiring instead of doing things right is mind boggling. Thanks again

 

I know what you mean on previous owners butchering and touching every part of the wiring harness that should not have been touched. I had to strip all the mess out my 87 and rebuild again, especially the Fan harness and radio harness, along with the charging system. Then again its problems like these that give us experience and knowledge on how to defeat them. If you ever need some specific wiring diagrams let me know, I have the 1985 Camaro GM shop manual and the 1987 Camaro and Firebird GM shop manuals. I do have the 1989 Camaro manual also, but for some reason this revised book did not come with the entire wirimg schematics. While the 1987 manual is not the exact year for your car it can help as the 1987 harness is similar with the exception of the dual fan harness incorporated and the oil pressure inertia switch, along with the new at the time CS series alternator and a revised smog emissions harness. Sorry if this is long.

 

The main problem was tracked down , it was the nuetral safety switch. I sold the car though, due to money problems. You snooze you lose.