smittyakalance

So i'm currently building a sbc 350, i just gutted everything out and already started assembling with all new internals... I'm still going with 350 got a brand new internal/external balanced scat crank, i got eagle i beam connecting rods, i believe speed pro flat top pistons, and i have edelbrock 6085 aluminum heads i'm putting on which are 60cc combustion. it will be really close to 10.1 compression. I also have the edelbrock performer intake that matches the heads.

What route should i go with a camshaft? This is the article from edelbrock and they are stating their cam and the intake to match the heads are the way to go but what are your opinions??

http://www.performancedepot.com/ART/...84_85_Inst.pdf

FRMULA88

Nothing wrong with Edelbrock's total performance package combo, too much cam for the heads is not a good thing, so I would stick with what they recommend.

My question is did you get all the machining work done to the block, and are you going to get the rotating assembly balanced before you assemble. did you order the right size pistons and are you going to file fit the rings?

Don't assume the CR, do the math.. 10:1 with iron heads is practical limit for pump gas (92-93 octane) make sure you check it & be ready to run 100 unleaded if you go pass 10.5:1 to be safe.

smittyakalance

I am ready to do the premium or super premium if needed, it's just my fun car not the daily driver... and yes the machine work was done to the block, and i got the right size pistons i kept it a standard 4.00" bore and ordered the same size pistons. i havent read to much on the heads but my brother in law worked at an engine performance store and i picked them up for $200 cannot go wrong with that at all

FRMULA88

New block or used? I ask because a used block if it was machined will probably have larger than 4.00 bore, at least 4.030 to clean it up.

Well if your machinist did this job then he ordered you the correct size pistons and rings. You will end up with a 355.

Are you going to assemble the short block ?

Good luck !

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Most edelbrock cams are lazy. There are better options that can make same power and give better driveability

smittyakalance

it was a crate block, and it will not be a 355 and yes i will be assembling the bottom end

smittyakalance

so what are your suggestions?

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

I like newer hyd rollers if you can swing the funds for the conversion, if its not a roller block. Else i still like modern lobe designs for flat tappets. Like the lunati grinds, the voodoo series. Comps xe's are also nice proven cams. I carbed i like them on 108-110 lsa's depending on the duration and heads

Peformer series is a stockish mild performance type build so you likely wont want to go over the 268 deg advertised duration cams

smittyakalance

well right now i'm still tbi set up, but i'm leaning towards a carb conversion but i have a feeling it's going to be a complete pain, but i'm about to totally redo the car bumper to bumper

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Well if its tbi keep the cam small

smittyakalance

so go with the edelbrock cam? because the power package is the 6085 aluminum heads, and the 3704 tbi performer intake, and the 2702 edelbrock cam, i already have the 3704 intake and rebuilt the tbi to have 65# injectors so it doesnt starve for fuel

FRMULA88

I would stick to that plan... too much cam with the stock ECM (even with a recalibrated PROM) is not a good thing. Also why have more cam than the heads, intake, or TBI can use?

This sounds like a well thought out "street machine" combo, you should be very happy with it. The car will have great street manners.

smittyakalance

I'm hoping so i don't know exactly how much hp i'll have but i just completely redid all the body work i dropped the rear axle and replaced the gears with 3.73 posi, and like i said up there the motor has all brand new internals with the edelbrock power package, and upgraded 65# injectors, also just got brand new long tube headers to drop in with the engine so hopefully that will workout. I'm going to go ahead and clean up and dress up the 305 and see if i can sell that but who knows. i'm wondering if i should pick up a caprice ecm that came with 350tbi police cars, and just ordered some new wheels so i'm hoping this thing will fly

FRMULA88

The stock ECM does have some "self tuning" capability, provided you don't over cam it and screw up the speed density system (MAP sensor) When the ECM is in self tuning mode the check engine light will come on then blink.

Another option is a hyper chip... if they are still in business.. it will have a more aggressive timing table than a stock EPROM that the new cam & heads will like.

smittyakalance

I haven't done anything to the ecm i'm afraid that the previous owner that swapped the 305 in left the v6 ecm it's an original 91 rs v6, but i know when you start the car the check engine light doesn't come on right away and then it will come on. When the check engine light throws a code it throws the too lean bank 1 code

FRMULA88

HA those POs always have good intention but do goofy things... part of the problem with old cars.. is fixing the POs screw ups.

SO yes the fuel table can be way off.. V6 vs V8..
not to mention the fuel pump for the v6 to V8 my be different also..

if the PO was too lazy or too ignorant to swap the ECM or change the PROM, safe to bet the fuel pump was not touched either...

FRMULA88

I am not familiar with the v-6 or I4 platforms in these cars.

But I would be checking the following to make sure your new 350 will not have a fuel issue..

Fuel pump... (does OEM use same pump for V-6 & V8)
Fuel lines /supply & return (are OEM v-6 lines same size as V-8)



A new ECM and bigger injectors will do no good if they are not supplied the correct volume of fuel...

Remember increasing fuel pressure does not increase volume.

FRMULA88

wait a second I just re-read your post..

The v-6 power plants in these cars,, they were MPFI, not throttle body ?

Lean Bank 1.. to me that means the MPFI...

A TBI does not have banks... just 1, 2 or 4 injectors.

I would make sure the ECM and engine wiring harness to the ECM is correct.. the PO could have hacked this up? was the 305 a TPI ?

smittyakalance

No kidding you would not believe the amount of laziness i have found in my car, when they did the engine swap they didn't remove the v6 wiring so it has double the wires. when they change spark plugs they were only hand tight, and they intalled headers with no gaskets.... needless to say when i bought the car i got a great deal because he thought the motor was knocking from the exhaust and vacuum leak. a vacuum hose was plugged with a stick...

FRMULA88

OMG that is too funny..

I think your first clue that the PO did not know what he was doing was the fact he went thru the effort of swapping out the v-6 for a 305. ... LOL replaced a slug... with a turd. ! LOL


Well hopefully you get the situation under control and the car running correctly. IMHO I am at the age where I cannot tolerate sub-par work from POs.. I would try to find a complete TBI engine harness & ecm to rule out any faulty wiring from the hack mechanic job.

smittyakalance

Oh yeah that 305 is worthless, i am gonna clean it up and attempt to sell it if i can't i'm going to buy a swb with no motor and put that in and sell it lmfao! and Yeah the complete wiring harness would be nice i'm pretty electric savy so when i re did the starter and igntion coil and injectors i rewired them so i knew they weren't the issues

thomas1976

I use the comp cam 08-500-8 http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-500-8/ with summitracing 170 cylinder heads http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-162108/, 46mm TB, 47mm bored 3704, #80 injectors @ 18 psi, EBL flash DIY custom tune, ... Pulls very well up to around 5400 rpm, this set up should be making around 350 fwhp.

Your edelbrock heads http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ed...make/chevrolet are very similar to the heads on my engine.
Here you can find some input and links to a tech article with both heads https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...21-post24.html

I can't find anything about the edelbrock 2702 cam you mentioned, but if it is similar to the 8-500-8 comp cam you will need 27 psi fuel pressure or more with the #65 injectors.

If you keep TBI and and have a modded engine, the best and easiest its to upgrade your ECM to EBL flash so you can tune it easy and quickly.
I used the LT1 aluminium head SA table to start, can find it here https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/post...53-post14.html

86iroc2try

Sounds like a good little driver motor.

ImHO you could swap to a 650 holley carb with a edelbrock intake manifold and benefit tremendously. Then...Id call Erson cams and ask them what they got. Eric at Erson has given us a lot of bada$$ camshafts, and i dont call anyone else anymore.


If you stay tpi..stick to edelbrock i suppose. I had to rebuild my car front to back when i bought it cuz the previous owners were not mechanics. Lol

smittyakalance

Sorry that cam was a typo it's the edelbrock 3702 cam, and 3704 intake with 6085 heads, I also have an edelbrock 2101 performer intake spread bore just sitting around so i could do carburated too.

thomas1976

Ok. The edlbrock 3702 (flat tapped) cam http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3702, you certainly do not need a fancy intake manifold to run that cam.

Personally I would not use that cam.

smittyakalance

and whats your recommendation for the edelbrock 6085 heads? i have edelbrock performer 3704 tbi intake which it calls for to complete the "Edelbrock power package"

thomas1976

I would use the comp cam 8-500-8 (roller cam) or similar.

Do not forget to bore the 2 bores of the 3704 to at least 46mm, like the bores of the stock intake manifold.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Edelbrock heads are OK, if you're not looking for the "max power" setup; because they're NOT. That's not what they're designed for, all ad copy bloviation aside. They're a good STREET head, with small ports, good velocity, and limited high-RPM power capability.

Their intakes are also good when well matched to the application at hand.

Their cams SUCK. They are nothing but copies of copied generic copies of generic copied generic copies of a generic old grind from 40 years ago that they copied generically for some reason. You can buy THE SAME CAM, identical in every way, as a Summit brand, for around half the price. And even at half the price it's still not a "deal"; it's still a generic copy....

Thomas' recommendation is well known to work well with TBI, no tuning required. AND, it's a roller, UNLIKE the dung in that package.

thomas1976

I would just like to point out that major tuning will be required.
The heads will need something similar to the alu head LT1 SA main table, and if combined with the 8-500-8 cam and a 46mm 3704, the engine will produce well over 300fwhp, wich will require much more fuel then any stock TBI set up was dialed in for.

smittyakalance

I'm going to upgrade the fuel pump sense it's an original v6 car I'm taking the rear end off this weekend to swap gears and dropping tank anyways so that's when I'll probably knock that out

thomas1976

V6 had MPFI, do a search how much it flows, maybe you do not need to change it. If you keep TBI then, do not put a stock TBI pump in there!

smittyakalance

Yeah i didn't think about that it should be fine, but i know after dropping the new motor in i'm going to need to tune everything, because previous owner left v6 ecm in never swapped it... But the more and more i watch street outlaws the more i want to put more power lol! but it's just going to be a fun quick street car so i think this motor with those upgrades and a gear swap will suffice

FRMULA88

I am curious to know how that PO managed to get the v6 ECM (MPFI 6 low impedance injectors) to fire a 305 TBI (2 high impedance injectors)

The wiring has to be a nightmare and who know what they did to the ecm...

I would scrap that and get a new (used un-molested) TBI ECM and engine harness.

smittyakalance

I'm almost positive, because i am running too lean bank 1 right now, and the only thing that wonders me is the engine bay still has the v6 wiring because the dude was lazy as all get out. I know when i drop this new motor i'm removing all the wires i dont need