But we don't really care about initial timing right? We need to know what your total timing is. Then you check what the initial is given the desired total timing and tune it from there to get the best curve.

 

Good because chances are with that cam your fast burn heads flowed better than your new heads.

 

When we all said to get better heads the one set we all would have said not to get you got! Not a good choice!
Sounds like you have ignition and carb problems. First you can not set the timing at idle. You need to set it for 34 - 36 at 3000 rpm.
Read this and follow it to the tee including the beginning about checking tdc.
https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...ning-info.html
After this is set you can move on to the next step.

 

I don't have a timing light that advances I just researched how much Mechanical advance my distributor allows which is 21*

So I would be at 37* total . at what rpm. With the soft springs in the distributor it should be all in by 2500.

I will stop over my buddy's house who has a timing light that has advance on it

 

What's wrong with the pro comp heads?

 

If you don't have an advance light get some timing tape or go borrow one before you drive.

Timing is what makes or breaks an engine tune and sometimes engine parts.

 

Besides quality issues with the parts used to assemble them. They have **** poor flow under 500 lift and they have huge intake runners. 170cc vortecs out flow them under 500 lift.

The result is a lazy power band and the need for a lot more lift.

 

Awesome. Of course I would do that

 

They will work but are not ideal for small cams. The truth is lots of people run them without issues. They are just mismatched to that cam.

Here is a quick chart I made a bit ago when I was looking at budget heads. While pro comps flow well over 500 lift they are kinda lazy below that.

1.6RRs will get you slightly above 500 lift with that cam.

 

Get your friends timing light. Set the total timing to 36. Rev the engine to at least 4K to make sure it does not increase past 36. Then after you test drive try attaching the vac advance to the timed port.

 

OK so they aren't that bad as long as I get the 1.6rr

 

They will be OK with the 1.6 To get any real use of of their design you would want about 550 lift. 1.6 rockers will get you about 500. They will not be ideal and will make less HP and TQ than factory vortec heads. Although if your goals are just high 13s they should work just fine.

 

I was hoping for low 13s high 12s.

 

I guess not now tho

 

With 1.6RRs good gears and proper tires I bet you can. I pulled a 13.9 with the 274 cam and factory 882 heads.

Are you running a T5? If not do you have a good stall?

Is the car lowered?

Have you modified the suspension?

What gears are in the rear?

 

It's a lot more than just anodizing that makes them what they are. If you've never had one you're not going to know any different. I've had both and it's not even comparable.

 

Yes running a t5 with 3.42 in the rear.

Kyb g2 shocks in the front and Monroe shocks in the rear

I will be putting on 17in vett wheels in the spring I still need to order tires. Probably goings to be 255 up front and 275 rear

 

I think it will be tough but if you get some new suspension components, visit the dyno and get the car tuned properly and get a good 60' you might be able to get some low 13s.

 

Well we will see. After this I'm probably going to be done with this motor. Start from scratch with another one. This one has just been wrong from the start for what I want it for

 

You would've done a whole lot better had you actually just sat down and done your homework. You had your answers right here and you still ****ed it up, so not really sure what to tell you about that one.

 

Delta> don't have to be an ******* this is my first build. I got talked into buying the crate motor.

Then I figured I'd cal summit and see what they recommended for a decent cam. That's how I ended up with the xe268.

I did my homework on the heads sorry I didn't know about flow numbers I figured since they had bigger 2.02 intake valves they would have decent flow.

Lesson learned

No need to be a dick about it.

Next time I'll just build the motor like I wanted to from the start.
Yes you guys were right but I thought I had a decent head and turns out I don't.

 

You're still not getting it. You've got a lot more reading to do if you think flow numbers dictate power gains. They're really a very small portion of the whole story as there are plenty of heads that have relatively poor flow numbers yet still provide excellent horsepower results. Flow only represents POTENTIAL power to be gained, and we haven't even touched back on the quality of airflow or combustion efficiency. I'm not a dick, I just don't sugarcoat things. There's already too much of that in here and it leads to misinforming everyone else with cookie cutter builds. Want results? Sit down and read. A lot. I've only done one serious build also and I haven't encountered any of the problems you're running into because I read for days (and in many cases WEEKS) before spending my hard earned money... and no, not "which is better" questions, either. Actually actively understanding how and WHY things work the way they do.

Making big power is a lot of work/effort and a majority of the results you see on the internet are HIGHLY inflated. If you want big power, you'll need to spend big money in the right spots along with custom parts where it's warranted. That's the only way you're going to get there, and cheap is nowhere in that equation.

 

I no that and I figured the fact that they. 64cc 190cc intake it would have been a good match this is first time actually building anything

I guess I'm having high expectations for everything with this motor.

I have read up information on a lot of parts but I figured matching compression ratio and intake cc with what a few magazines did I would have been close.

I still need 1.6 RR
650 carb
And then dyno and tune it. If I'm not happy then I have a spare 350 punched .30 block. < another engine that was in this car I bought from my friend which was another mistake.

My friend built a few motors and I talked to him about the heads but the more I think about I don't think he looked at them at all and told me yea they are good.

I'm asking friends of mineand learned to just do it my self. I was set on trick flows or AFR heads but the for the price of 630 assembled aluminum heads it was hard for me to turn them down that's why I looked at the valve sizes and things like that.

I don't expect things to be sugar coated but don't tell me I ****ed up and didn't do my home work. I did I just didn't research the right information about the difference between 600$ heads and 1600$ heads.

I spent 3 weeks looking at combos for my motor and what magazines did and the different heads.

 

I bet if you send those heads off for portwork you can probably pull out a lot of the slack from them because you'de essentially be getting someone to repair the problems with them. Of course, this costs more money into the heads, but... it's been done before many times. I am honestly nitpicky, but I also expect results that work.

Your motor isn't a total loss, so don't think like that. THAT will waste money. You have a good foundation, you just need to narrow your results. I have a 10 second motor just like yours; nothing special downstairs.. just a 355. it's all up top where it matters most.

The 268 will work for a good street bruiser or an occasional strip warrior, but you'll want a bit more if you want to see some big power increases. Keep it in there for the time being. Plenty of people deep into the 12's with that cam.

 

Procomps are awful heads and everyone here would have told you that.

HOWEVER, they are only awful compared to other aftermarket aluminum heads. You're more or less on equal footing with the best factory heads, and you're way ahead of the game from people who are trying to build up 305's or make 70s smogger heads work. I would imagine you can hit 300-350hp with that build and thats going to be PLENTY to have a lot of fun. Thats about how much power you paid for.

If you'd done like a lot of the other guys who go cheap and buy a Crate engine (They ALL make sacrifices to hit the price point, it's a question of where) and they get stuff with mismatched smogger heads advertised at 350hp and get it on a dyno and it's only 200hp because those dyno number claims are complete bull manure due to the way they are able to "test" them. 300-350 doesnt sound like much, but it's near the range of stock LS1's, and it's a lot more than the 400hp engines in the magazines because they dont even have to turn their own accessories or go through an exhaust system that has to actually fit in a car. The magazine numbers are always grossly overinflated compared to real world numbers in a car where they have to turn alternators and power steering pumps and waterpumps and have to have a REAL exhaust system put on them and fit under a hood.

What does your car weigh? If it's lighter that 300hp is going to be a blast.

Is your block a roller block by any chance? Long term that will probably be your biggest bottleneck.

The main reason we hate on Pro Comps is because they're so close to the price of REALLY good aluminum heads. They're what... $650? $700 a set? A set of Pro-filers is right around $1000 and they are among the best heads available for SBC's, period.

 

Don't forget for around 700 you can get a really nice iron head that out flows pro comps no problem.

 

I was thinking about porting and polishing last night.
I guess its not a total loss. Just more wrench time to pull off the heads, send then out for port n polish and then put it back on.

What bothers me the most Is the crate motor. I was hooked on a blue print 383 with flat top pistons for I think was 2300 then my dad talked me into a crate motor with the heads on it.

I'll price out porting n polish for the heads and maybe I think about pulling them off n sending them out next fall

 

Get it running right first with 1.6 RRs then take it to the track before you do any more work to the heads. Always get a base line when you can

 

I would just get it running right for now and see if you like it or not. Double check tdc with a piston stop and follow the link to setup the timing first. Once you know the timing is 100% correct then you can move on to the carb unless there are other issues wich you would now now are not the timing.

 

I will get a base line for it

Last night I re adjusted my valves no more backfiring issues so that's solved

I'm getting a timing light with advancement on it from my buddy for the timing.

I'll order 1.6 RR before spring and I'll keep an eye out for 650quick fuel carbs. One of my dads friends may have one I can buy from him might be a holley tho.

I may order a a/f guage to help with tuning