355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

.022 in the hole flattop pistons I have been told not to use a .26 or thinner head gasket with a stock crank cus things might stretch at 6,000+ RPMs so been told to use a .39-41 gasket. Not sure what to do. .060+ quench sucks but how much power or problems am I looking at with a .060 vs .040ish quench?

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

If you have TPI on top of this motor, it won't make any meaningful power above 5000 RPM or so. There sure won't be any point in trying to flog it clear up to 6000. That cam further ensures that the motor will be LONG SINCE all done long before it gets close to that.

Not that having "only" .040" or so of quench would be a problem, regardless.

Don't worry about it. Not an issue.

That said, a .040" over flat-top 350 with .022" deck clearance with 64cc heads and 6cc valve reliefs will still only have 9.8ish compression; just about right for an aluminum-headed motor on pump gas. Maybe a bit on the low side even. Although, with such a small cam, better to err on the cautious side of that, than to go for broke.

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

GM ran .018" thick steel shim gaskets on many engines factory stock. So you using a .026" gasket would not be a prob. I would run a .018" to .022" or so gasket if it was me.

You don't want to put a .039 to .041" gasket on it..

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

The intake I'll be running is the stealthram and the cam is custom comp cams xfi 224+230 .570s lift 112+4. The motor will make power into the 6,000+ mark. The AFR heads have been milled from 64cc to 60cc. From the info I have I should be around 10.3 to 1 compression with a .39 gasket at like 10.5+ with a .26gasket. Not really wanting to spin the motor past 6 k alot tho with it having a stock crank. Motor only has about 8k miles on it so it's pretty fresh.

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

.028" gasket would work. Believe gm made one that thick. I wouldnt go any thicker. But suppose it can be done and not kill it

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-14096405. Would this be a good gasket to use on my setup?

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

http://m.summitracing.com/parts/nal-10105117. Found this one also but see they have it as a 4.000 bore. I found a forum with a guy sating the bore on the gasket measures 4.080 and that they will fit a .060 over block just fine. But no proof of that....

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Also do you guys recommend I spray a coat of something on the heads before I lay them down? Do I need sealant put around the water jackets? Looks like the old ones I pulled has sealant added....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Think this is the one i've seen recommended for stock shortblocks. It should work its measuring 4.100" so should be good


Shouldnt need to add anything but if you wanted to use copper spray that will be fine.

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

I had trouble getting the Impala gaskets which are the .028" compressed ones.

I ended up just going with the Victor Reinz 5898 gaskets from Autozone, they are usually special order.

But they are .026" compressed. They aren't a MLS gasket so are pretty forgiving and not too expensive.

http://www.autozone.com/gaskets/head...et/128376_0_0/

PN# on Autozoo is 5898

EDIT: NM, I thought i was replying to a different thread regarding gaskets. I just read that .026 and thinner is bad for you due to a possible stretch issue.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I would think a .026 would be OK....were talking about .002" from the .028". I plan on claying a piston tonight with the old .040 gasket to see how much room I have. How thick do I need the Clay to be to be safe? What year impala did that .028" gasket come from?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Unless you have angle milled the heads to no end, or you have some exotic pistons your piston to valve clearance will probably be like 1/4"

I don't even check it like that anymore, what I do is figure out what my coil bind will be, then I lift the valve to that point and check it. When the valve floats that's essentially gonna be where you are at and you wanna snap the pushrod (or break the valve spring), not have the valve hit the piston.


But, .060-.080 is your min pv clearance.

-- Joe

skinny z

Victor Reinz 5746 graphite. .026 x 4.100.
Also goes by the Clevite brand name.


http://www.summitracing.com/int/part...5746/overview/

Been there and done that to 6500 rpm (not that I made any power up there but sh*t happens) with a stock cast crank and rods (with ARP bolts). Tens of thousands of miles and hundreds of dragstrip passes with no issues.
If the engine is fresh and the piston clearence not excessive (so as to minimize piston rock where is generally where the trouble comes from), you shouldn't have a problem.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

So tonight we installed 1040 AFR 65cc heads my comp cams xfi 224-230 .538 .541 112+4 .040 head gasket thick. I took two old hydrolic lifters pulled the spring and installed some small nuts to make solid lifters. Bolted the head down with Clay on #1 piston. Installed 1.6rr and set to zero lash and the exhaust hits the piston bad! It take 2.5 full turns before zero lash before the valve allows the piston to turn over. 1.52rr won't clean either......not sure what it is or what to do.....is the cam to big for this setup?

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

I guess I should say that I also have a new set of afr 1095 comp ported heads 195s that have been milled to 60cc from 65cc and the exhaust valve hit piston so we pulled the head and used the 1040 195cc AFR heads with 65cc and the exhaust still hit. I'm thinking this cam is messed up or something...

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Is pushrod correct? Is cam degreed?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

What part # pistons?


You're basically doing what I did back in 2010. I had some AFR 1040 heads which I angle milled to 60cc, flat top pistons and I had a bigger cam. (XR288HR).

I'm with Orr, I think your cam is way off. A SBC IS an interference motor, so if your valves are opening at/near TDC you will make contact.

What timing set are you running?

-- Joe

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

3145 cloyes timing set. Can you put the lower timing gear on wrong? We have the dots lined up..

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Yes, it has 3 positions.

With the dots lined up, the keyway should be at the 1 oclock position.



-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Maybe off a tooth but lower does have plus minus 4 deg adv retard but that shouldnt matter. It should clear either way

Edit: yup above diagram is good guide

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

4 degrees of camshaft rotation is a LOT at the crank. I guarantee you it could make the difference between smacking the piston or not.


Here is a good read for him: http://www.chevyhardcore.com/tech-st...ce-tolerances/


-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

4 at crank 2 at cam. It will not make that cam hit piston. Alot of guys advance cams 4 deg but most shelf cams have 4 built in anyway so no real need.
Depending on cam size and rocker ratio, 1* is about .005-.007" gain/loss in ptv.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I've set it at 4* advanced, and the motor wouldn't rotate. Reset it at 0 and had over .120 clearance...

It depends on the cam, the lobe ramp speed, etc.



-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

What was your cam

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

290HR12, commonly referred to as the cc-306. In a 355 with TRW-2256 flat top pistons. .005" in the hole, .039" felpro 1010 gasket.

Motor that was in my C4.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Thats a substantially bigger cam but still surprised you seen a .120" gain on 4 degs difference.

I ran a cam like that but tighter lsa and much more lift, same durations and had plenty of clearance installed on a 108 icl 109 lsa. I was tighter on intake side as is common. .041 gasket 0 deck flat top with reliefs

Xfi 224 shouldnt have as much of an issue but until its degreed and checked anything is possible. Just surprising to me

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Looks like the lower timing gear is set on the retard key so its 4degrees off and the cam is +4 ground into the cam. We messed up! So I'm hoping to get a puller and pull the lower gear and reset it to the zero key. Any good tricks on how to pull and set a lower timing gear? We didn't have a puller last night so we cut the old gear off and then had the new gear in a hot plate with oil and got it 400+ degrees in temp then was fast about installing it. Hope we can pull the gear and reset without getting a new timing set.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Another question I have. If cam is .538 and .541 with 1.5rrs how much will lift change by running the 1.6rrs

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Changes by the ratio factor difference. 1.6/1.5 x the lift at 1.5. It goes up to .573 intake lift

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

You did what??


3 jaw puller, impact gun = remove

Deep 32mm socket, hammer = install


I've never heated one up to 400 degrees haha.

-- Joe

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

My buddy is a desiel certified macanic and that's what they do on the big rigs so we did it that way. I'll get a deep 32mm socket and puller tonight!

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I'm not suggesting something is wrong with doing it that way, and I get the reason why they are doing it. Similar technique is done when doing Dana rear ends.

-- Joe

Dyno Don

iTrader: (7)

Here is a picture of a 3145 gear set

If you use the zero keyway then you would use the dot to dot
If you use a different keyway you have to use the corresponding mark.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

If he messed that up he's WAAAAAY off.

I'm assuming he aligned it up for ether advanced or retarded. There is no way he aligned it on the wrong keyway yet set it for straight up on the cam gear, he would have had to have noticed the piston half way down into the bore...

-- Joe

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

See that's what I think happened we used the retard key then lined up dot to dot but never looked at pistons....I'm guessing the piston is halfway in the hole. So when dot to dot a piston should be TDC if we use the zero keyway right?

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Dot to Dot piston should be at TDC with keyway at 1 oclock.

Some crank gears have an R or an A, others stars. Mine had 3 stars, you had to know which one to use.


You said you had the head off twice, I assumed this was while you were indexing the cam and would have noticed the piston half way down the hole.


-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

If thats what happened then explains alot. Like i said before you shouldnt see an issue with ptv with that setup

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Changed the gear to zero dot to dot. Bolted a head with Clay (afr195 flat milled 62cc) installed homemade solid lifters 1.6rrs zero lash and turned it over. We did this twice to be safe. First time clay read .155" intake .120" exhaust 2nt time Clay reads .130" intake .120" exhaust with the old.040 head gasket. So if I was to run a .026 head gasket I should be about .117" intake .106" exhaust. Seems safe to me right? This should put me about .046" quench and 10.25-10.5-1 compression. 4.040bore 3.48 stroke, .020" piston in hole, 62cc heads, .026" HG, only thing I'm not for sure of is my piston cc refiefs......I think there seal power 4 valve relief -6.9cc maybe.

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Whats a good head gasket to run for this setup being .026"? I want to get them ordered

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

http://www.competitionproducts.com/m.../#.Vd1NdMvnav0

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

https://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfo...parts/14096405

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

http://www.cnc-motorsports.com/victo...-per-pack.html

Night rider327

iTrader: (13)

I have used the Victor Reinz 5746 a few times in the past. Good gaskets, no probs with them.

skinny z

As I was saying...

355tpipickup

iTrader: (5)

Yep I should have them here tomorrow! Now I need to figure out what fuel rail fittings I need on this HSR rail. They used HSR didn't come with the hard line that connects the front part of the rails together. I'd like to use a short chunk of braided -6an line I have but not sure what the rails need for fittings. I ordered the billet kirban afpr so I'll need fitting for that to go to -6an also. I hope that's about the last bit of parts I need to get this project running again....

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

They are an oring -6 an fitting
https://www.holley.com/products/fuel.../parts/534-186

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

The o-ring side that threads into the rail is a weird straight thread though. Might be NPS.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its a straight cut AN.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Is AN straight thread?

I know AN is the SAE version of a JIC fitting, which is simply a 37 degree taper. I'm not sure of the standard to the thread itself.

-- Joe

Orr89RocZ

iTrader: (20)

Its just an AN fitting with the rounded end hacked off. Hence why they call it straight cut. Idk if it has taper or not, thats not my concern lol its just a type of fitting commonly used in rails.
http://vibrantperformance.com/catalo...e.php?pID=2981

Both threads are same. But the flare rounded part is gone on one end