As you can found, the runner-to-plenum is held on by 4 bolts on each side (4x2=8). Each runner-to-intake is held on by 3 bolts... 4x3 = 12 more to remove. There are a total of 20 bolts... 4 long, 14 short (including a stud or two on the driver side plenum), and 2 medium length (the "opposite side" bolts described below).

The front passenger side, and rear driver's side runners have a bolt that screws in from the opposite side.
That is: to remove the passenger plenum, stand on the driver's side, and you will find one more bolt at the front.

 

Is that black round thing it?

 

I think i got them all now, thanks a lot.

 

Yes, that black round thing is your FPR )fuel pressure regulator). Pull the black hose off of it and see if you have gas in that hose.

 

Nothing came out of it, but I noticed that it's connected to the plenum, and if you saw my other picture, the plenum looks like it had dry gas all over it.

 

You can turn your key to "on" and pressurize the fuel rails. With the vacuum line off the regulator, you should not get any gas coming out the regulator where the hose would connect. If you try this, be sure to wait a while so your fuel system de-pressurizes and depress the Schrader valve to relieve any residual pressure before removing the injectors. Cover the valve with a rag so fuel doesn't spray all over when you depress the valve. BTW, the Shrader valve is the thing that looks like a valve stem on a wheel with a cap on it. It is actually the same design valve, just used for a different purpose.

 

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I noticed that the tube you're referring to wasn't connected to anything. Or is that how it's supposed to be? As for your other comment I just need to cover the valve thing and have the key on? Is it the big round thing in the middle where the plenum sits?

 

The Shrader valve is on the fuel rail passenger side. It will look like a tire valve stem with a cap on it. Remove the cap and you will see the plunger, it will look just like a tire valve stem (same design) and have a plunger in the middle that you depress to open the valve, again just like a tire valve stem. That big round thing in the middle of the base is your EGR valve and should also have a vacuum line connected to it.

 

OK, so I went down into the basement and looked at my old TPI and it seems that tube is for vacuum, not ninth injector. It should be plugged so no vacuum leak.

 

Red arrow pointing to your Shrader valve.

 

Ok. So i open that. So if you can can you tell me step by step what to do? Like 1. Turn key and so on...

 

1. With the vacuum line off the FPR, turn the key to "on" and let the fuel pressure rise.
2. Turn key back to "off".
3. Check FPR to see if there is fuel running from the vacuum port where the vacuum hose would attach.
If you see fuel running out the port, your diaphragm is broken and needs replaced.
If you do not have fuel running out the port, your FPR is ok.
4. Wait about 5 minutes for the fuel pressure to be relieved.
5. Un-cap the Shrader valve.
Using a small screwdriver or similar tool, depress the center pin of the Shrader valve. Just like letting air out of a tire. Cover the valve and tool with a rag so gas does not spray all over and possibly in your face. The fuel rail is pressurized to around 45 psi when fully pressurized so letting the system bleed down and then carefully opening the Shrader valve to relieve any residual pressure should be done prior to removing the injectors.

 

Ok thank you. So how long do i wait until i do step 2? Also, i noticed this was broken. Not sure if it's a big deal.

 

You only need to wait a few seconds. The ECM will turn on the fuel pump for a few seconds to prime the system then will shut the pump off if it doesn't see the engine running or cranking. This few seconds will build enough pressure in the system to accomplish this test.
As for your vacuum lines, you will need to replace any broken lines such as the one pictured.

 

Any idea what the name of this certain vacuum line is?

 

Go here: https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/tech...vacuum+diagram
post 17

 

The diagram at the link I gave you shows that line as being your EGR solenoid line. The diagram immediately above your post in that thread is the correct one for your car/engine.
The "tee" in your picture is the "tee" designated by the A in the middle front of the plenum in the diagram.

 

Thank you. I'll see if i can buy it somewhere. Really appreciate all your help.

 

You can buy vacuum hose at any car parts store. Neoprene (gas resistant) hose of the correct diameter can be found just about anywhere.

 

So if i go to auto zone what exactly do i ask for because i know sometimes the names are different?

 

Cut a piece of the old line off and take it with you. Measure how much you need and tell them you need x number of feet. You can easily cut the hose with diagonal cutters or a razor knife so if you buy 3 feet and only need 2 1/2 then cut to length. It is sold by the foot and having a piece of the old hose will ensure you get the correct diameter. It is neoprene hose but you can tell them you want hose for vacuum lines.

 

I will try that, thanks. Is there a way to test out each injector to see if they are the cause of my problem?

 

Not without the correct equipment. It would be more cost effective to buy rebuilt injectors from Southbay or possibly check the classifieds here. 19 lb/hr injectors are standard on the 305 TPI and are what you would want as replacements.

 

That's why I asked. If they're in good shape I won't have to replace them. I only saw the long screwdriver trick, but the car needs to be on for that test.

 

The long screwdriver trick will only tell you if the injectors are pulsing, NOT if they are leaking through due to dirt buildup holding them open.

 

Ah, ok. Well what exactly do i need to check that?

 

It is unlikely after 30 years that the injectors operate anything like specified. If you want to be sure, the one and only reliable method for testing an injector is to have it done by an injector service like South Bay. They have a very expensive machine that the injectors are mounted into that feeds pressurized cleaning solution into the injectors and pulses them just like in the engine. The controller which pulses the injectors is equipped to not only pulse them but also perform an operating impedance test on the coils. High frequency sound waves are embedded in the cleaning solution and help to break up varnish deposits in the injector. This machine allows not only for cleaning of the nozzles and poppets but also for flow testing and spray pattern checking, as well as testing the coils. This is the only way to verify injector health and properly clean them. The service usually runs somewhere around $20 or so per injector. 30 year old injectors? I would just replace them. South Bay has good prices on replacements.

You have the intake system pretty well apart now. At this point, you can detach the injector rails from the intake base and pressurize the system, watching for any fuel to be dripping from any injector nozzle when pressurized. The injectors, unless the clips have been removed, are retained in the rail by steel retainer clips. These retainers will hold the injectors in place, allowing you to pressurize the injectors and rails to check for leaks.

I'm still concerned as to what the person who removed your cat made a hole in. If he created a leak in your exhaust that is affecting the O2 sensor causing it to read lean, it will force the system rich. The Block Learn(long term fuel trim) and Integrator(short term fuel trim) can add a combined 40% fuel to the engine by increasing injector on time, trying to correct for a perceived lean condition. If this is your issue, no amount of work on the injectors is going to help.

The car you're working on, while a primitive early version, uses a modern computer controlled EFI system. The system is intelligent and self learning. If you change anything, it is liable to adapt around your changes and this can lead to the kind of issue you're having.

At this point, I would check to be sure that no fuel is leaking from either the regulator or the injectors under pressure. FYI, it may take more than one cycle of the key and even cranking the engine for a second to bring the system up to full pressure. Be sure that the injectors are all disconnected or that the INJ fuses are both removed so that you don't spray fuel everywhere when cranking the engine.

Once you verify that the injectors or regulator aren't leaking, I would stop there and take a close look at what was done when the cat was removed. Your vest bet is to have a scan tool that can access the ECM so you can look for trouble codes and look at fuel trim data(Block Learn). You won't be able to look at Integrator without the engine running in closed loop, but Block Learn will tell you if the system has adapted to a perceived lean condition and is adding fuel.

Block learn should read 128 if the system is normal. It can go as high as 156 trying to correct a lean condition. As high as 134 or so is normal correction for age. If it's more than 140, and the plugs are wet with fuel, you probably have an issue affecting the O2 sensor. A shorted O2 sensor will really make the system dump fuel.

 

Yeah, I'm go ahead and buy new injectors and regulator since they are most likely finishing from the years of use. As for the exhaust, I was watching the guy the whole time and he just removed the cat and welded a pipe to take the cats place, but as for the hole that he made i believe he did it on the pipe not sure, but my sensor is still there and connected. The plugs did have fuel on them though. Here's a picture from below. Also, after i left the muffler shop my car was running poorly, like slower and the pedal felt a little heavier than usual. Noticed that it was leaking drops of gas from the tail pipes too. Had the car since summer of last year and it was running great until i left that muffler shop so that's why that concerned me.

 

Is the hole he made close to the O2 sensor? It's also possible that the sensor was damaged. You can test the O2 sensor with a DVOM. It should produce between .200 and .800 volts. Under normal operation, in closed loop, it will toggle back and forth from low to high. Lean is low voltage, rich is high voltage. If the engine is running pig rich and O2 voltage is low, that's a pretty clear sign of trouble.

It's important to note that the single wire O2 sensor is unheated, meaning it has no built in heater and relies on the exhaust to heat it up to operating temp. The sensor doesn't read reliably until heated to 600f. You generally need to run the engine at 2,000 rpm for 30 seconds or so to heat the sensor to temp. These single wire systems often go open loop with extended idle because the sensor cools.

One way to determine if the O2 sensor and/or exhaust leak is your issue would be to reset the ECM by disconnecting the battery negative cable for 30 seconds. Then disconnect the O2 sensor before starting the engine. It may run a little off with no fuel correction but it should run reasonably well. Then, reset the ECM again and connect the O2 sensor, start the engine again and see if it goes to crap, like it did before, getting worse as the ECM adjusts fuel trim. Test O2 voltage during this time and see if it isn't stuck low. Anything below .450 volts is low BTW. If the ECM can't pull O2 voltage above .450, it will continue adding fuel until the trims are maxed out rich.

When you install your new injectors be sure to install new o-rings and lube them with vasoline. Before you try to run the engine, replace the fuel fouled plugs. Otherwise it may not start.

 

Can you give me step by step instructions on what exactly to do to and how long with the disconnecting battery and all? My battery has been disconnected this whole time so i should disconnect the sensor now and reconnect the battery and try to turn it on? Can i turn it on with the intake out and all?

 

You can't run the engine with the intake off. The test I described is for when you get the engine back together. I suspect that you will need to do the test since I think that the exhaust shop likely caused this problem, either by creating an exhaust leak close to the O2 sensor or by damaging the sensor. See if you can find the hole they made in the exhaust.
The test is just as I described it. I don't know how to describe it any better. You can use a thin paper clip wire to back probe the O2 sensor connector for the voltage test. You need a good DVOM for the test. 10M ohm per volt input impedance. If you don't know what that means, go to Fry's and ask someone there. That spec is critical for accurate voltage reading in the O2 sensor test. A compatible scan tool is an even better way to test but I'm trying to give you a method for testing that you can do at home.

 

Ok. So to make it clear, I disconnect the battery for 30 seconds then disconnect the 02 sensor and car should turn on IF the problem is coming from the sensor or leak? By the way, do you think he may had made a hole around this area in the picture since he had to remove that piece that's welded on to the new pipe?

 

That's pretty dumb. That tube is the Air Injection Reaction tube that fed fresh air into the catalyst to increase it's efficiency. It serves absolutely no purpose without a cat. Why anyone would take the time to weld it to the exhaust, after cat removal, just blows my mind. I guess he just didn't know what else to do with the open end of the tube, or how to reroute the system and delete that tube. This could be a clue to your problem though. I'm wondering if he actually drilled a hole in the pipe where the tube is mounted or just welded the tube with no hole.

You see, the AIR system feeds air into the cat after the engine has run for 60 seconds or so after start up. On start up, air is fed into the exhaust manifolds to help oxidize the rich exhaust produced on cold start up. The extra oxygen and heat from oxidization of the rich exhaust also helps the O2 sensor heat up faster to get the system into closed loop. BTW, closed loop fuel control begins once the O2 sensor is up to temp and begins to toggle lean to rich, as I described before.

It is vital that once the O2 sensor is operating and closed loop begins, that the AIR system switches from the manifolds to the cat. Otherwise, the added air injected at the manifolds causes the O2 sensor to read lean, which the ECM sees as a lean condition and sends the fuel trims way rich trying to compensate. The result is just what you have now. An engine that runs like crap because it's getting drowned in fuel, until the plugs finally foul out and stop firing altogether, filling the cylinders with fuel.

The tube that is welded to the exhaust pipe should be too far downstream to have a significant affect on the O2 sensor, which is mounted in the exh. manifold, so that isn't my main concern right now. We can go back to that depending on what you find in this next test.

What you need to do, once you have the engine back together, is pay attention to the AIR system hoses. Focus on the hoses that go to the manifold AIR tubes. There should be no air coming through these hoses from the AIR pump once the engine has been running for a few minutes. The ECM will have reset from the battery being disconnected, so the fuel trims will be back to 128, or neutral. With new plugs installed, the engine will probably run fine.

I wish you had a scan tool and knew how to read and decipher ECM data. That would make this so much easier. For now, you want to pay attention to those air hoses to the manifolds as the engine starts to run rich, which it probably will after several minutes. It will help to be tapped in and watching O2 sensor voltage so you know if it's hanging low(lean). You can use a hose pinch off tool to stop air flow through those hoses, or you can just disconnect them temporarily at the manifold AIR tubes to stop air to the manifolds. See if the engine doesn't lean out then normalize with the air shut off. If that works, then you'll need to reroute the hose that went to the cat so that it can flow, or remove the tube where it's welded to the exhaust pipe and drill a hole there so it can actually flow into the exhaust. It could be that the exh shop made a hole there but that the AIR system still isn't switching because of some other damage they did, but this test is a good place to start. One quick easy solution if the AIR system is causing you issue is to just remove the belt from the AIR pump.

It's still possible that the O2 sensor is just damaged. A quick test for that is to snap the throttle a few times and watch the voltage. It should go high with acceleration fuel from opening the throttle a few times, then it will fall lean with decel fuel cutoff from closing the throttle, then it should go back to normal toggling. Remember that the 86 single wire system has to be heated by exhaust so you may need to run the engine at 2,000rpm or so for a minute to get the sensor working. A scan tool will tell you if it's in closed loop or not. Otherwise, you just need to watch sensor voltage. If it hangs low and doesn't respond once it's been heated up, replace it.

 

Ok, so I'm currently waiting on some money in order to purchase the regular, and injectors so I'll have to wait to attempt these test. I really appreciate your help though. Couldn't I get a refund from the muffler shop or have the guy fix it for free if he truly did cause the problem?

 

I suppose. Trouble is if he didn't know what he was doing in the first place, how's he going to fix it. If this stuff was easy, people would fix their own cars and I'd have to find a different job. But, I'm busy as hell and make pretty good money. So, I guess it isn't easy.

 

Ok, so I got the car running. Changed the regulator, plugs, and oil, then boom it turned on. Problem now is that it's throwing out a lot of smoke from tail pipes and engine. It's also leaking green liquid near the transmission.

 

I'm sure the new plugs helped.

Was the oil watery? Due to the gas hydrolocking, the oil probably smelled like gas. If left in a container did it separate with clear or green liquid above the oil?

It could be burning off all the fuel, or other build up since it ran last... What color smoke? Just at startup, once it gets warm? Or constant?

"smoke off the engine" is likely fluids spilled, or dirt/grime spread around as you were working on the car. This should go away as it burns off... unless there is a leak, such as the valve cover, leaking onto the exhaust, etc...

The only "green liquid" is anti-freeze. "Near the transmission" would likely be:
1) from the heater core... passenger side firewall.
2) from an oil cooler... at the oil filter, bottom, driver side of engine.
3) from the back of the intake manifold... back of the engine, either side, and/or running down the trans. You removed the intake runners... But, did you remove the intake manifold (the bottom part)? Or it could just be leaking between head and intake due to age.

 

Here are pictures to help. The smoke is constant, and the car pushed out about 21 quarts of gas and oil when i removed the oil plug. I don't think i removed the intake manifold, i just lifted the plenum and changed the regulator.

 

 

Ok so i just turned on the car, and noticed that the leak is coming and starting from the intake somewhere which could be the cause of the smoke from there. Then when i turned the car off i can see it leaking from near the transmission. I think maybe it made it's way from the engine to the transmission area.

 

I think you have a blown head gasket if water is coming out the pipes and you had 21 quarts of fluid in your oil pan..........

 

Did you replace the injectors? Gas in oil is from the injectors leaking all that gas into the engine (original problem). Now it looks like you have a coolant leak, probably from the throttle body heat/cooling lines. Check your hoses where they connect to the throttle body to see if that is the leak. GL!

 

[QUOTE=MoJoe;5995575]I'm sure the new plugs helped.

"Was the oil watery? Due to the gas hydrolocking, the oil probably smelled like gas. If left in a container did it separate with clear or green liquid above the oil?"

If the green liquid you're thinking of is coolant, it would be at the bottom of the container, under the oil. Oil floats on top of water.

I assume that the 4 gallons+ in the bucket is what you drained from the oil pan. Does it smell like fuel? Is there green coolant at the bottom of the bucket? I can tell coolant in the oil pan by watching as I remove the plug for watery fluid coming out before the oil. It's common whenever an intake manifold is removed to get some coolant into the crankcase. It also can happen if there is a leak at the inner side of an intake manifold coolant passage. It would be a good idea to recheck oil level at some point since you've run the engine to see if it's filling up.

Watch now for the engine to go rich as it runs a while. If it does, be sure to perform the test for O2 sensor and AIR system. Don't let it flood itself out again. If it starts to lope at idle and the exhaust turns black, reset the ECM again before continuing the tests or running the engine again.

 

The only issue I have with condemning the injectors as the original cause of this problem is that the trouble started right after the exhaust shop worked on the car. I agree that the injectors are way past their service life and should be replaced, still I think there is probably something else going on. That's why he needs to check the O2 sensor and AIR system. Especially the AIR system since that's where the exhaust shop was fooling around.

 

Yes it's leaking from one of the hoses on throttle body. I remember i didn't screw back in the nut that tightens the bracket on the hose. It may be that.

 

Yep, my bad. I was thinking of draining the BROWN coolant out of my engine (new to me), and having all the sediment settle in the jugs to leave a layer of gook on the bottom and bright green antifreeze on top.

 

Well as of now I got the smoke to stop, and the leaking under control, but as always you fix a problem and another one comes.

Noticed the engine light was lit and checked the codes and got code 33 which i believe is MAF Sensor. So where do i start? Checked the connector and with the test light with the car on it only lit on one side of the connector.

 

There should be battery power to only one side of the connector. The other circuits are a signal circuit, a ground circuit and a burn off input. The signal circuit gets 5 volts from the ECM, which the sensor pulls down to produce a signal between about .5 volt and 4.5 volts during normal operation. The ground is ECM ground and should read 0 volts. THe burn off circuit gets 12 volts from the burn off relay to burn contaminants off off the sensor wire when the engine is shut down.

The diagnostic "pull up" resistor in the ECM will cause the signal circuit to read 5 volts if the circuit is open. Code 33 means that the ECM is seeing high voltage on the MAF signal circuit. High MAF voltage will also cause the engine to run pig rich. Code 33 is probably an open in either the signal circuit or the ground circuit. Either one will cause the MAF signal to read high. If the burn off relay is stuck on the sensor will read high and code 33 will set.

You can test the MAF circuits with a DVOM. The signal circuit should read 5V with the key on, engine stopped. The ground should read 0V, the 12 volt power circuit will only have power if either the engine is running or if terminal G of the ALDL is connected to 12 volts, activating the MAF relay. The burn off circuit should only get power for several seconds right after the engine is shut off and only when the engine has run for a while.

Do you have a service manual for the car? If so, it will have the trouble trees for each code that runs you through the factory test sequence.