89iroc89

I bought a 89 rs when I turned 15. I put it under my mothers insurance and paid $600 a year full coverage. I am lucky because my mom has an amazing driving record, never been pulled over once.

I have owned about five 3rd gens since then, and my current Formula is under my name, I pay $800 a year full coverage on my own plan. I am 20 with a few accidents (none my fault) and one speeding ticket. It very well much depends where you live as well. If you live in a big city, you'll get bent over because no matter what, accidents are going to happen more often.

zraffz

Yup... move to NJ if you want to get bent over. For my beater S10 I was paying $120 month ($1,440/year) with no collision at 25 years old, zero tickets ever and no accidents in the past 5 years; too boot, I have multiple defensive driving certifications for my job and a CDL.

Then again, the average salary here is significantly higher than a lot of other states and fuel is generally cheaper so I guess it all comes round at some point.

InfernalVortex

iTrader: (4)

Best advice in the whole thread (besides getting a 4th gen v6... thats not a bad idea... even though the 4th gen v6 cars i've been in had absolutely awful build quality).

Anything you'll want to hot rod will cost you money... lots of it. If you've got money to be hot rodding a hot rod you have enough to buy a stock cheap daily driver. Get a truck so you can throw car parts in the back of it. Save up all taht money you're not spending on insurance and hot rod parts and buy the Camaro later. I know it sucks... I did it. I saved up for nearly a year to get my car and I've had it 10 years now. I also had a daily the entire time that saved my *** over and over when I was waist deep in insane hot rodding projects.

Hot rodding your daily is nerve wracking and annoying and impractical and expensive.

zraffz

Really? I remember the first time I drove a 4th gen. My biggest issue was that the car is literally one giant blind spot when you look out the side mirros. I could see it being accident prone during lane switches or merges.

Want_a_v8

thanks all for responding!ive narrowed it down to a 4th gen v6, a fourth gen v6 and a project car, a truck and a project car, and (uh oh... ford) the thunderbird supercoupe... from looking at the ford forums, ive seen that as long as theyre fairly stock, theyre reliable, fairly cheap to insure, quick, but not insanely so, and handle well. plus, its a MAJOR sleeper lol. also, the ack seat actually has some room in comparison to f bodies. this isnt necsesarily a first choice, but one for me to concider. although i prefer gm stuff, its still a nice car, and would be a good daily for a while, then eventually getting a project. thanks!

Vanilla Ice

If going ford pick a mustang.
Edit: I was wrong.

zraffz

Bro, when you coming out of the closet?

Vanilla Ice

Hmm. I have great respect for all cars. But I'm a true car guy I suppose.

Want_a_v8

yea like you stated, the supercoupe was rwd. it was sort of the next gen turbo coupe i guess. but it has irs and some power and insurance is cheap so its something for me to consider. the only downsides ive seen is that some parts can be harder to find, and that things like spark plugs are more difficult because of intercooler/blower piping. for your 'suggestion' of a mustang, doesnt that defeats the whole purpose of insurance? i was under the impression foxbody guys had insurance costs out the wazoo. back to the v6 f body, ive recently found out about the y87 edition, which gave better breaks, faster handling(z28 steering rack), dual exhaust, and an lsd. thers a 97 camaro near me with this package, would something like this be good to check out? thanks!

Want_a_v8

also, ive had a few people recommend getting a cheaper 3rd gen v6, and going over everything while its stockish(bolt ons) then eventually going v8. the 2.8 had like 135 factory flywheel, and the 3.1 had 140 something. thats still slow, but i get the upgrading of like handling and stuff then adding a bigger engine. anyone second? this would also probably be part of the daily driver/ project part, where i'd get a truck or something newer, then get a cheap project. thanks!

zraffz

I'm just messing with you lol.


Anyway, what you want to drive ultimately comes down to just that... what YOU want to drive (or afford).

For the likeliness that you aren't the greatest mechanic at the age of 16, you can't go wrong with an OBD 2 car because a scanner can tell you exactly what is wrong with your car or at least point you in the right direction.
On the contrary, certain states have more lenient or non-existent inspections on vehicles from 1995 or earlier - which is a big bonus for some of us that don't exactly have all of the required emission parts on our vehicles.

V6 4th Gen or 3rd Gen for a daily

zraffz

I'm just messing with you lol.


Anyway, what you want to drive ultimately comes down to just that... what YOU want to drive (or afford).

For the likeliness that you aren't the greatest mechanic at the age of 16, you can't go wrong with an OBD 2 car because a scanner can tell you exactly what is wrong with your car or at least point you in the right direction.
On the contrary, certain states have more lenient or non-existent inspections on vehicles from 1995 or earlier - which is a big bonus for some of us that don't exactly have all of the required emission parts on our vehicles.

V6 4th Gen or 3rd Gen for a daily? I'd take a 4th Gen if I didn't plan on attempting to swap out the motor for a V8.
If I had plans of changing out the motor for a V8 in the future, the 3rd gen will require way less parts. I have only ever been in true Iroc-Z 3rd gens (in stock form) and I feel they have always (to me) felt like they had the slightest handling advantage over the newer 4th gen.

My memory is a little fuzzy on what i had but the greatest all around performance Camaro I've ever owned was a 4th gen, 6 speed, heads/cam LT1, lowered 2.5" on 11" wide tires with a full aftermarket suspension... that car stuck to the asphalt like it was glued down. I'm not sure this is relavient because I've never built a 3rd Gen with the comparable amount of suspension and tire size though.

I might even say that old 4th gen was on par with a friends 2002 Z06 but it was hard to get a feel for that corvette from the passenger seat sideways at 60 mph lol

Want_a_v8

i originally had wanted a 97 formula lt1 ws6 car, because that was my favorite car when i was little, but the likelihood of me finding one of those for under 3,500, (and if i did, it would be thrashed so bad) was very slim, and i also heard about lots of the cars had optispark issues, though usually it was just previous owners fault for not watching or being careful when cleaning the engine bay and stuff. i also heard the 95+ lt1s had a vented opti which helped but didnt solve the problem. either way, ive all but ruled out v8 4th gens, as much as i like them. but as for the info on the v6s, if i got a fourth gen, i dont think i would end up swapping, unless i blew up the motor, and apparently the 3.8 was quite the punchbag of a motor, which is to say it could take a beating and keep on giving. if i got a 3rd gen v6 the eventual plan would be to definitely swap to a v8 or carb'd ls. thanks!

zraffz

You should be able to find an LT1 Trans Am with a 6 speed for $3,500. I bought a 1995 Trans Am back in 2010/2011 with a factory WS6 hood; if my memory serves me it had about 110k on it and I paid $3,200. The paint wasn't flawless but it was in good shape for its age.
Car had shortie headers and an SLP loudmouth exhaust (most annoying thing to hear drone inside your car on the highway). I had this obsession with doing donuts with this car, dropping down a gear and dumping the clutch to spin it around 180* to head a different direction and also drifting every turn I came upon... needless to say I stuffed that car into a guardrail within 3 months! I had come up on the same turn I took every day, bumped the parking brake just like every other time and the back of the car just kissed the guardrail enough to make it violently slam back to the right and stuffed it under the rail. I then switched the front end to the LS1 style and pawned that car off on some kid for what I had into it lmfao.


I have owned 4 LT1 fbodies with varying model years. The 1997 was always getting repaired, the 1995 ran like a raped ape once in a blue moon (seriously, this car felt ungodly fast at times for a bolt on LT1).
The most reliable one I owned was a 1994 Z28, A4 with bolt ons and 4.56 gears. I bought it for a grand with a bad waterpump and clogged cat and fixed it in the road and drove it home. I drove it for a year or two everywhere and it took quiet the beating every day. I did notice a decrease in this car's performance (and oil pressure) over time though.

Truthfully, the LT1 cars seem to be very hit or miss with reliability and performance. I imagine because of how cheap they were for a while, it'd hard to find a 6 speed one that hasn't been pounded on by some punk kid... I know I surely did my fair share of ruining a few of them lol.

Want_a_v8

Where I live, it rains a lot, and usually rather hard. We also get lots of snow. That being said, does the non vented opti wistand the elements or is it really susceptible to water damage? If I were to get a beater and a project, One of my dads friends dads owns a mechanic shop and some guy is selling a 92 celica gt for like 500 bucks ( its a manual too) and its reliable but needs a new tire and a tune up. My dad seems interested and said if I got that, I could get a project third gen as a weekend warrior/ track car type thing to build up. This sounds appealing but I'm not sure what will happen yet so if I go that route ill say something. Thanks!

Vanilla Ice

Opti problems are blown out of proportion. It's just generational hate. I never had a problem with my opti up to 6800 rpms. My brother never had opti problems in either of his too.

Make sure it's a gm opti. Any real problems are from idiots and cheapskates. The rest are few and far between.

zraffz

I wouldn't say that the opti problems don't happen but they are defiantly exaggerated as vanilla ice said. Stick with an OEM distributor and you will be fine.

I've noticed 1 or 2 of the cars defiantly didn't run as good in the rain or extremely humid days but never did either of them misfire.

Truth be told, the biggest problem I've ever had with these cars was when you hit a puddle of water they would generally sputter for a few seconds. I'm not sure if this is opti related or not because it's widely accepted that once they get wet, they are junk.

Want_a_v8

sorry for the long wait, ive had ap testing and finals preparation these past few weeks. thanks for the replies. i was just accepted into a tech school in my county for my junior year next year, and will be going every other day, all day long. this gives me an opportunity to get a project car to work on even during the school year, because getting a roller will enable me to follow the curriculum given to us. throughout the year, theyll be teaching me how to rebuild, service, change parts, etc on engines, how to change springs, minor wiring, the whole 9 yards. im thinking of getting a summer job to add to what i have saved up all ready, and get a roller firebird or camaro ( definatley a 3rd gen) and then get either a 4.8 lr4, or a 5.3 lm7 and swap that in and make a track/ autocross car for taking to the racetracks they have near my area. im still leaning towards a car swap as well as it wont be a daily, and i dont need any interior wiring with the exception of the gauge cluster. also, ive heard that going carb will make more peak power. is this true? thanks everyone

zraffz

The LS swaps get expensive... almost any roller will be more expensive in the long run but give you more time to save money and give you valuable experience.

I prefer the carb over FI. It's a simpler system that won't leave you pulling your hair out to diagnose some electrical issues.

Want_a_v8

i do realize that it could get pricey, so im looking at buying bits at a time (engine first, sell off wiring next, then carb manifold+ carb) all as i make money for it. i can also strip the car for parts as it will probably be a beat up v6 or something and i can sell the motor, accessories, seats, carpets, wiring, and trans. that leads me to my next question. i know a t56 can be pricey, even used, so would a v8 t5 with some upgraded parts hold up to the 295 ish from the 4.8? im leaning towards this motor as it is cheaper than the others usually, but mostly because it revs, and that seems more fun, seeing as it combines torque and higher rpm. either way, i know a v6 t5 is not up to the test, but would a v8 one be? from factory, the newest tpi 5 speeds had about 230 ish whp, so thats almost a 70 horsepower bump. thanks! also, i agree that efi would be a little difficult for a first high school tech school project thats why im thinking carb

zraffz

I'm not sure what transmissions are compatible. I do know their is a difference between an lt1 and ls1 t56 but I've never had an ls1 with a t56 to know what it is.

The rear of the crankshaft on the ls1 is shorter than the older motors. For example, to bolt an older trans to an ls1 requires a spacer.

Want_a_v8

i knew there was a difference in the lt1 vs ls1 t56's, and that the lt1 ones basically bolt up to any 3rd gen engine. i wasn't too sure about the ls1 trans' though. would a 1st gen s10 be easier to swap a v8 into? there's a roller for sale with a 5.3 and a rebuild kit, and wasn't sure about the difficulty of the swap. ive always liked the older mini trucks, and the bravada grill looks really cool on them. ive also seen a few guys on YouTube who run the ls s10s in autox and do really well, so that gives me something else to think about. thanks!!

zraffz

I don't fit in the 1st Gen S10. I am finishing up a 2nd Gen S10 drag truck with a 6 liter as we speak though.

I'm sure they can be made to handle pretty good even if they are just lowered and have wide tires on them.

I'd imagine a 2nd Gen can out handle a 1st Gen on a shoestring budget. The 2nd Gen has a rear sway bar while I don't recall my 1st Gen drag truck having one when I started building it.

valicswarrior

iTrader: (1)

Insure it as a non DD, as a collector car and it will be dirt cheap. I pay $100 per year $0 deductible full coverage on my 85 bird. I insure through American Collector insurance company and have always had great dealings and interactions with them.

Want_a_v8

I'm pretty tall but I'm rather scrawny, im 6"2 but approx 145lbs so I don't know about fitment but i suggested the 1st Gen because it was cheap(less than 1k) but it was a roller and had a 5.3 like I said. For the project id like to get a 3rd Gen firebird or a v8 s10 so I've narrowed it down to just those. so basically I'm gonna get a job to make more money for a swap budget and then from there, whichever is for sale in my price range is what ill probably get. Thanks!

zraffz

He's too young to go the QQ plate route. No company will insure anybody under 25? Or 21.

The 2nd Gen s10 is a better platform all around. And I'm 6'3-6'4 210 lbs and I absolutely hated how I fit in the 1st Gen s10 and fbodies. Don't forget you will need headroom to wear a helmet during racing events.

Want_a_v8

i get that. if i were to bolt the seat to the floor rather than use rails, would it be lower? i havent been able to find any 2nd gen s10s in my range without like engine fire or 300k+ miles lol. i saw a video of a 944 with a4.8 in it. it used a c5 transaxle and torque tube, but i bet it would be a pain to wedge the thing in there. that said, there are lots of 944s with broken timing chains & or clutches that need replacing for dirt cheap. maybe not a first project type thing, but would that be fun later on? the 924/944/928s are my favorite porsches so its definately interesting, but on a highschool, heck even after college budget that would be difficult...

zraffz

I'm not sure if mounting them on the ground is a good idea because you lose the adjustability.

I fit okay in my 2nd Gen with the factory bench seat but I fit much better with the seat brackets I fabricated. They started out as Ford Ranger seat brackets and i cut/welded them to my needs. It can still slide forward if I ever needed somebody else to drive it too.

I didn't go crazy making the passenger seat bracket low profile but the drivers side seat sits about 1" off the floor.

Want_a_v8

thanks! I'm still looking around but ill probably say something whenever i get whichever i end up getting. thanks all!!