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Tech / General EngineIs your car making a strange sound or won't start? Thinking of adding power with a new combination? Need other technical information or engine specific advice? Don't see another board for your problem? Post it here!
I recently purchased an 1987 IROC-Z with around 119,000 miles. Clean body, no issues as far as drivability, or otherwise. My friend was driving it home for me, and noticed it was overheating, then low oil pressure. He had it towed to a shop closer to my home. Its setting there now. My question is, is this a common problem, and what should I be anticipating as far as a fix? I would do it myself, but I'm not where the car is, since I'm in the military. Am I looking at a top end rebuild? or is a whole engine replacement more what it will need? Also this car has a shift kit in the transmission, and it is basically just a drag car.
The transmission is geared ridiculously low. It has an Arnett Racing Transmission, with a locking mechanism.
What would be the best course of action to take?
Last edited by TLynch911; Apr 28, 2016 at 01:21 AM.
It's common for people to say these cars are "overheating", if that's what you're asking.
Often they're not; rather, they're just boiling and spewing and puking coolant everywhere. They tend to need a new radiator cap.
As far as "low oil pressure", that's a common complaint too. Whether it's actually "low" or not, I can't read the gauge and haven't checked it to see if it's accurate or not, so ... yeah.
As far as "fixing" it, that would depend on what's ACTUALLY wrong with it, if anything; and what you intend to do with it. Doesn't look like it would make much of a daily driver for example, at least not as-is.
Best thing to do is wait until you can actually see it and drive it and all such as that.
He seemed to think it was losing power, and he had trouble starting it. Sounded like a head gasket problem, but again, the car is not in front of me, so I cannot make an accurate diagnosis. He said it got to about 210 Degrees F. Could he have caused more damage by letting it cool and then attempting to drive it? and would it be a better idea to rebuild the motor, and install new Non-TPI heads?
Considering that the normal running temp for these cars is in the 200 - 210° range, and that the fan DOESN'T EVEN COME ON until about 235°, then no, that didn't do any damage.
would it be a better idea to rebuild the motor
I guess that would depend on whether it needs "rebuilding", among other things.
and install new Non-TPI heads?
Sure, considering that the heads that came on TPI motors were among the best that there were up until Vortecs came out in the late 90s, if you want it to be even slower.
Best thing to do at this point is to calm down, don't make any plans, above all DON'T buy any parts or "have" anybody start wrenching on it, until you LOOK AT IT. Then, at least you'll know what you're starting with.
But that's not enough, by itself. That's a little like having GPS coordinates without a map... sure, you know exactly where you ARE, but nothing about what's around you, where the place you're going is, or what roads lead there.
For that, you need A PLAN. You have to decide what you want this car to be. Daily driver? Trailer queen? Never-ending project? Show car? 2nd car to drive on pretty weekend days? King of the drive-in? Winter beater? Autocross? or what?
Then once you know where you ARE, and also where you WANT TO GO, then and only then, you'll be ready to start planning out a route to get there. In the meantime, looks like you just bought somebody's half finished ragged-out project; it's IMPOSSIBLE to even guess what all might be wrong with it, or what fantastic parts it might already have, or what's been hacked off and is now just missing (*cough AC *cough) or what's about to break in half and fall down around your ears, or what.
I was thinking, newer Vortec heads. I can't exactly get a good look at it til July, since I live in California, and the car is in Kentucky. The last motor rebuild I personally did was on a 350 Vortec, and it wasn't too bad. And yes it doesn't have ac/heat. The heater core has been removed. I have it at a shop back home right now, they said the motor wasn't seized, and that the oil looked a little burnt. If all goes well tomorrow, then I'll have it driven back to my house and put it in my shop. My plan was a daily driver, but something to work on and improve in my off time. I paid $5,000 for the car, and I am willing to put a little into it. Where is a good place to start on making it more street friendly? The odometer reads 119k.
Vortec heads are well and widely known to be a major disappointment under TPI; their virtues (FLOW) are not allowed to ever operate.
Great heads, but not a good option if you want to keep the TPI.
OTOH some of the other EFI intake manifolds, such as the Holley Stealth Ram, work great with them. For about the same money as the $$$TPI Vortec Base$$$ you can get a good 50 HP more with essentially no down-sides.
A good place to start on making it more street friendly is to figure out what you have now. Still haven't heard anything about that, besides what can be seen in the pics. Which don't look all that street friendly to me, but for reasons other than the motor. But who knows, a good vacuum and wash inside, might make AHELLUVALOTTA improvement. Just can't tell.
Well the shop i took it too said the bottom end is completely and utterly destroyed. Got a shop said they would rebuild the motor from the ground up for $2200. A lot of things are hardwired in. Still no more detailed pictures I have a couple that were taken today, but tomorrow I will post more. This car is pretty well just built for racing, the transmission is all altered it runs at real low rpms, the heater core isn't attached, they took the damn windshield wipers off. The T-tops don't leak and all power windows and seats work. My intent is to get it into decent driving shape for now, but since I'm not home, I have to rely on other peoples word, which is kind of disturbing. Any recommended alterations while they are rebuilding it?
I am REAL curious how they came to that conclusion........
Easy...
They probably read his posts on this forum.
He seems SO DETERMINED to "rebuild" that engine, that I can't imagine how they could quote him anything else.
Seriously OP, DO NOT SPEND A DIME ON THAT CAR until you've had the chance to go SEE IT FOR YOURSELF, DRIVE IT, and all that sort of thing. Otherwise, you have absolutely no way of knowing that you're actually ACCOMPLISHING ANYTHING about making the car any better, except to the extent that when you finally DO get around to driving it, it will be slightly faster due to weight reduction, concentrated at the driver's wallet.
You don't even know what the engine IS (or at least haven't told us, if you do), what parts it's built out of, or any other useful information. You don't know whether the engine might work and push the car around for the time being, but some OTHER part of the car - brakes, let's say, or steering, or tires, or... - is The Bleeder That Must Be Stopped. You could very well end up paying somebody to tear down a perfectly good motor, put back a "rebuilder's special" POS, and STILL not have a car that works. This is NOT a good way to enjoy this hobby.
You already know the car needs to be turned back into a street car, from some sort of a "race" car. "Rebuilding" the engine won't do that: won't put heat and air back in it, won't install a radio, won't fix the interior. If I was in your position, of trying to acquire parts I needed at a distance from the car I was working on, I'd be starting with things I ALREADY KNOW ARE MISSING; and kinda work outward from there. There's a motor IN THE CAR: it drive the car from wherever it was to wherever it is now: you don't need one THAT bad. Some of that other stuff THAT ISN'T EVEN THERE, is a different matter. If you're just really DYING to spend money on it, buy that sort of thing instead.
Slow down, calm down, take a deep breath. Make sure the car is stored somewhere safe and preferably under a roof so that if it leaks (which I'd put 99.999% odds that it does, since it has T-tops and you can see in one of the pics where somebody spooged the hell out of the usual wrong place to try to make it quit) it doesn't ruin whatever is left of the interior, and WAIT UNTIL YOU DRIVE IT before deciding what to do.
Last edited by sofakingdom; Apr 30, 2016 at 10:20 AM.
Alright I got an accurate run down. I had it taken to a professional. It has a different transmission and a torque converter with an unusually high stall speed. There is different heads and a ridiculously larger cam in it. It is only useful as a drag car.
Its an Arnett Racing Transmission. They're a shop in Greenville Kentucky. Its had NOS run through the motor so they built the motor to handle that. I'm not entirely sure just yet, because my dad dropped the car off today, and he just looked it over. No rust, underneath or inside. The seals are bad. It's mainly been garage kept, and taken on a trailer to races. I have more pics of interior. I'll find out more come Monday. He gave me a rough estimate of $8,000 to make completely street friendly, with suspension, steering, and heat/air and all other accessories and wiring straightened out. Its a very reputable shop.
For that kind of money, I'd be looking thru the classified section on this forum to see what I could get - Ready to Roll.... or out wherever you are stationed so you can see first hand, and drive it.. See, I can help spend your money for ya too... Unless you paid $500 for that car, then building it might be worthwhile..
Last edited by Camaro86IrocZ; Apr 30, 2016 at 04:57 PM.
Arnett Racing doesn't "make" transmissions. They REBUILD em.
It's some kind of transmission or other... most likely the stock model (700-R4) or maybe a Turbo 350. Google "transmission pan identification" and compare the one in the car to those. I'd be expecting stock though, especially with that stock shifter in it.
The engine LOOKS, for all practical purposes, bone-stock (except for the Holley TB). Not sure why someone is pointing out the Bosch replacement MAF... that's something you'd pick up at a parts store, of no particular consequence. Gonna be pretty hard to get it to idle right, with the hack job on the PCV hoses and those "breathers" and all that. But easy enough to fix, and cheeeeep.
I don't see any evidence of nitrous on the motor, but that's not saying a whole lot; it'd be pretty easy to take the kit back off, especially if it was just a dry hit, and not leave much evidence. The car looks like it's had it; but not the motor.
That gauge pod is just ... hideous. I have never understood those things. Same for that utt bucking fugly hood. I guess some people like them, but to me, they just look... trailer park.
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE NEAR any $8000 worth of work there. More importantly, I'm not even seeing that you'll have a $8000 car, after paying somebody else $8000 to work on it. You could throw that car in the trash and buy a REAL NICE one for $8000 and spare yourself A BUNCH of trouble and risk. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to spend that kind of money on that particular car.
Now for YOU to work on it, in a common-sensical kind of way, starting with the most urgent needs first and leaving things like "rebuild motor" until you get around to where EVERYTHING ELSE more urgent is renewed, that's a WHOLE OTHER MATTER than "shop".
Why did you buy this particular car in the first place? What about it appealed to you? What are you hoping that it will be when all is said and done?
Arnett Racing doesn't "make" transmissions. They REBUILD em.
It's some kind of transmission or other... most likely the stock model (700-R4) or maybe a Turbo 350. Google "transmission pan identification" and compare the one in the car to those. I'd be expecting stock though, especially with that stock shifter in it.
The engine LOOKS, for all practical purposes, bone-stock (except for the Holley TB). Not sure why someone is pointing out the Bosch replacement MAF... that's something you'd pick up at a parts store, of no particular consequence. Gonna be pretty hard to get it to idle right, with the hack job on the PCV hoses and those "breathers" and all that. But easy enough to fix, and cheeeeep.
I don't see any evidence of nitrous on the motor, but that's not saying a whole lot; it'd be pretty easy to take the kit back off, especially if it was just a dry hit, and not leave much evidence. The car looks like it's had it; but not the motor.
That gauge pod is just ... hideous. I have never understood those things. Same for that utt bucking fugly hood. I guess some people like them, but to me, they just look... trailer park.
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE NEAR any $8000 worth of work there. More importantly, I'm not even seeing that you'll have a $8000 car, after paying somebody else $8000 to work on it. You could throw that car in the trash and buy a REAL NICE one for $8000 and spare yourself A BUNCH of trouble and risk. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to spend that kind of money on that particular car.
Now for YOU to work on it, in a common-sensical kind of way, starting with the most urgent needs first and leaving things like "rebuild motor" until you get around to where EVERYTHING ELSE more urgent is renewed, that's a WHOLE OTHER MATTER than "shop".
Why did you buy this particular car in the first place? What about it appealed to you? What are you hoping that it will be when all is said and done?
I bought it cause I always had a thing for these car's since I was a kid. I was planning on fixing the minor things I could see it needed like heat, radio, shocks, seals maybe a new steering rack, and just ensuring it was a smoother ride. I usually do all my own motor work but I don't mess with transmissions. It looked stock for me but the guy at the shop said it had different heads on it. I'm going to see what he says Monday and if he can tell me what's wrong with that damn motor and maybe a reasonable price to fix it (If its even messed up) I was going to have him do it and do the rest myself. Its hard to do since I'm in the military and don't come home but once a year or so, but I wanted to make this a decent little project for long term fixing up.
Arnett Racing doesn't "make" transmissions. They REBUILD em.
It's some kind of transmission or other... most likely the stock model (700-R4) or maybe a Turbo 350. Google "transmission pan identification" and compare the one in the car to those. I'd be expecting stock though, especially with that stock shifter in it.
The engine LOOKS, for all practical purposes, bone-stock (except for the Holley TB). Not sure why someone is pointing out the Bosch replacement MAF... that's something you'd pick up at a parts store, of no particular consequence. Gonna be pretty hard to get it to idle right, with the hack job on the PCV hoses and those "breathers" and all that. But easy enough to fix, and cheeeeep.
I don't see any evidence of nitrous on the motor, but that's not saying a whole lot; it'd be pretty easy to take the kit back off, especially if it was just a dry hit, and not leave much evidence. The car looks like it's had it; but not the motor.
That gauge pod is just ... hideous. I have never understood those things. Same for that utt bucking fugly hood. I guess some people like them, but to me, they just look... trailer park.
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE NEAR any $8000 worth of work there. More importantly, I'm not even seeing that you'll have a $8000 car, after paying somebody else $8000 to work on it. You could throw that car in the trash and buy a REAL NICE one for $8000 and spare yourself A BUNCH of trouble and risk. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to spend that kind of money on that particular car.
Now for YOU to work on it, in a common-sensical kind of way, starting with the most urgent needs first and leaving things like "rebuild motor" until you get around to where EVERYTHING ELSE more urgent is renewed, that's a WHOLE OTHER MATTER than "shop".
Why did you buy this particular car in the first place? What about it appealed to you? What are you hoping that it will be when all is said and done?
I know how to tell one tranny from the other but I didn't get a picture of the transmission I assumed it was a 700r4 or a turbo 350 unless for some damn reason they rigged a 4L60E under there but I found that unlikely if they were racing this car.
If your stationed anywhere for any amount of time, Make use of the base hobby shop, If they have one. Cheap with all the tools you'd ever need.. One of the best military perks in my opinion..
If your stationed anywhere for any amount of time, Make use of the base hobby shop, If they have one. Cheap with all the tools you'd ever need.. One of the best military perks in my opinion..
I'm stationed in Twenty nine palms its just hard to find time these days, work long hours.
Yeah, I think you are going to be much further ahead if you just cut your losses, and find something that is driveable RIGHT NOW. Use that one for parts, or, sell it for whatever you can get for it.....
8 grand is WAY too much money to put that thing back into driveable condition...... For that money, around here, I can find one that is in pretty much pristine condition, and ready to go to Florida.
Arnett Racing doesn't "make" transmissions. They REBUILD em.
It's some kind of transmission or other... most likely the stock model (700-R4) or maybe a Turbo 350. Google "transmission pan identification" and compare the one in the car to those. I'd be expecting stock though, especially with that stock shifter in it.
The engine LOOKS, for all practical purposes, bone-stock (except for the Holley TB). Not sure why someone is pointing out the Bosch replacement MAF... that's something you'd pick up at a parts store, of no particular consequence. Gonna be pretty hard to get it to idle right, with the hack job on the PCV hoses and those "breathers" and all that. But easy enough to fix, and cheeeeep.
I don't see any evidence of nitrous on the motor, but that's not saying a whole lot; it'd be pretty easy to take the kit back off, especially if it was just a dry hit, and not leave much evidence. The car looks like it's had it; but not the motor.
That gauge pod is just ... hideous. I have never understood those things. Same for that utt bucking fugly hood. I guess some people like them, but to me, they just look... trailer park.
I'm not seeing ANYWHERE NEAR any $8000 worth of work there. More importantly, I'm not even seeing that you'll have a $8000 car, after paying somebody else $8000 to work on it. You could throw that car in the trash and buy a REAL NICE one for $8000 and spare yourself A BUNCH of trouble and risk. It doesn't make the slightest bit of sense to spend that kind of money on that particular car.
Now for YOU to work on it, in a common-sensical kind of way, starting with the most urgent needs first and leaving things like "rebuild motor" until you get around to where EVERYTHING ELSE more urgent is renewed, that's a WHOLE OTHER MATTER than "shop".
Why did you buy this particular car in the first place? What about it appealed to you? What are you hoping that it will be when all is said and done?
Update. I have driven the car today. Ending up swapping with a 305, used same heads. Car drives great. Starting to tear down the 350 to swap back out when I got time. Having problems with the idle. It needs continual throttle to run, it does better when its in gear. No overheating issues thank God. So I'm now trying to fix this idling issue. I was thinking IAC because I had a similar problem on another car. Here's the run down. It's reading a real rich air fuel mixture. I can smell fuel every now and again. It'll die if I don't hold the throttle down. So I have been going sideways all damn day shifting from neutral and gunning it in over drive. I got back to my house and was having trouble getting it to turn over at all. Again, same fuel smell, and it seems like it is bogging down. I took the ground off, going leave it overnight and see if it can reset itself. A foolish gesture. I'm sure but at this point I'm on leave and just want to get want to get this obstacle done and over with. Side note, it is a fast running car, and it handles quite well. What would be a good course of action to take to start off the diagnostic process. I have pretty well all the tools I need here.
Unless you paid $500 for that car, then building it might be worthwhile.. 
