GTA88

Hi,

My Trans Am is currently running OK!

I'm asking a question about my girlfriend's 2009 Hyundai Elantra, since there are so many knowledgeable people here.

I'm thinking about replacing the timing belt since the original has 99,000 miles and 8 years on it.

I've watched lots of Youtube videos about it, and it looks like just loosening a lot of bolts, removing some brackets and covers and the crank shaft pulley, remove 2 outer belts, one engine mount, marking stuff with whiteout so it all goes back together right, making sure it's tensioned properly.

The one thing that worries me is getting the bolt out of the crank shaft pulley and then getting it back in later. The bolt just rotates along with the crank unless you stop the crank from moving somehow. The easiest way to get the bolt out seems to be to go buy an impact gun / impact wrench from Harbor Freight. This would take the bolt right out, apparently, no muss, no fuss. (If not, I'll have to go to plan B, C, D, E, etc)

You're supposed to tighten the bolt up to 122 ft pounds. But couldn't I just give it a few clicks of the impact gun to tighten it up? Isn't that what a mechanic would do?


Also, what's a good brand of timing belt? Gates? Dayco? Duralast?




Thanks!

W.E.G.

DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES USE THE "CRANKSHAFT PULLEY BOLT" (correct term is "harmonic balancer bolt") TO RE-INSTALL A HARMONIC BALANCER.

YOU WILL STRIP THE THREADS ON THE SNOUT OF THE CRANKSHAFT IF YOU ATTEMPT TO USE THE BOLT TO FORCE THE BALANCER BACK ONTO THE SNOUT OF THE CRANKSHAFT.

YES, I AM YELLING.

NOW HEAR THAS!!! FAILURE TO USE A PROPER INSTALLATION TOOL WILL RUIN YOUR CRANKSHAFT!!

You need to use a separate puller-tool to remove the harmonic balancer. You will destroy the harmonic balancer if you don't use a proper puller-tool. Not quite as bad as destroying the crankshaft, but almost.

I'm not sure what youtube vids you watched, but you need to watch this old guy explain how to re-install a harmonic balancer - or as you say "crankshaft pulley."

GTA88

W.E.G.,

Thanks! You are scaring me. I will watch the Youtube video tomorrow when I have access to a newer computer.

By the way, in the videos I saw, the harmonic balancer came off fairly easily by hand, no tools needed, just grab it and wiggle it off (once the bolt was removed with an impact wrench, or having a wife stand on brakes while having transmission in gear, etc ). They had a million other ways to hold the pulley : wrap a chain around it, or loop an old vbelt around it and tie it to the frame, stick a screwdriver into the flywheel, and on and on and on. Everything was a MacGyver method. And they said it worked! I'm just looking for the right way to do it that won't damage anything.

Thanks again, and I'll check out the video tomorrow. I gotta get moving on this. Not too may warm weather days left!

AlkyIROC

Somebody beat me to it. As soon as I saw the topic I want to say NO NO NO!

If you don't have a proper installer, you can make a very simple one. never use the threads to pull the balancer on. You WILL strip the threads in the crank.

A simple puller is using some threaded rod which is the same size as the bolt, a couple of washers and a nut.

Thread the rod into the crank. Position the pulley onto the crank then use the washers with a little grease between them and use a nut to push them onto the crank. The threaded rod doesn't turn in the crank and the nut threading down the rod pushes on the washers which pushes on the balancer.

You CAN use an impact on the nut that's on the threaded rod. If you strip it, you ruin a nut and some threaded rod, not the crankshaft.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Japanese and Korean engines like that Hyundai do not have press fit balancers. They will slide on and off by hand.

Do not use an impact to install it. Use a proper holding tool and a torque wrench.

No - mechanics (good ones) do not install balancer bolts with an impact. For one thing our impacts are much too powerful and you risk stripping it even with a small one.

GD

8t2 z-chev

Good advice above-I had a mitsu 3L(in my '89 dodge raider) apart for timing belt once and the slip fit damper had 2 blind holes I was able to make a tool for to prevent rotation while tightening the bolt-bolt must be tightened to spec or damper will work loose and ruin crank snout.

GTA88

W.E.G., I watched that video. One difference between that setup and my Elantra is that my "harmonic balancer" actually is a pulley, with a belt going around it. And there aren't any threads in it. The plan now is to buy an electric impact wrench to remove the crank bolt, and a pulley holder tool (or maybe I can rent one or get autozone to loan me one!) and buy a torque wrench to use reinsert the bolt.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

^This^

And keep that impact gun away from anything on the engine.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

Taking the bolt out with an impact is completely OK.

You can also tighten it up with an impact AFTER the damper is already pulled on with the right tool. DO NOT attempt to "draw" a press-fit damper on with the bolt though!!! (if that's what this one is, I have no clue, the others may well be right about that) AZ and others "rent" a damper tool for free if you need that. The "exact" torque on that is not important, since it's not compressing a gasket or anything like that; it needs to be "tight enough" not to come loose, but not "too tight" to the point that it pulls out threads or damages anything. If "spec" is 122 ft-lbs (which sounds like a metric -> SAE conversion from some round metric number, as opposed to a "real" number; probably 165 N-m) That's probably just the "nominal" spec for that hardware size, just a nice appropriate value to set the factory's automatic assembly eqpt to, as opposed to "if it's 121.8 it'll disintegrate, if it's 122.4 the matter will contact the anti-matter and annihilate the entire known universe in a blinding flash of the obvious". A torque number like 122 is a case of "measure with micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with axe"; about like somebody says they need a 2x4 1m long, and Skillet busts out his micrometer and tries to cut it to 39.3701". Somebody says "1m", then 39-3/8" is probably already more accurate than what they had in mind. Anything from 39¼" to 39½" will probably be fine. Same deal here. Anything around 100 - 150 ft-lbs is probably totally OK.

You'll find that an impact is a REAL handy tool to have around, regardless... I'd suggest something better than HF... those battery-powered ones from DeWalt, Makita, etc. are AMAZING for lots of simple stupid things like popping a wheel off in a hurry. You might even be able to find the matching one to your drill, that uses the same battery.

Grease the bolt threads and the back side of the head and/or the washer, if any, before putting it back in.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

I over torqued a damper bolt on a duece and a half once back in nam... before I lost my leg. The matter and antimatter touched and anhiliated the known universe..... boy howdy did I get wall to wall counseling from the CO on that one. You know what an entire universe costs these days? More than a months pay I can tell you that!

GD

W.E.G.

Well, I guess that's what we get for letting a crankshaft question about an import car run in the TGO forum.

Do those cars even lefty-loosey?

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Yes but it's the metric version - CCW-loosey. Because in dirty metric cork sniffer it's not sufficient to give only a direction - you must specify if you are looking at the top or bottom of the fastener.

GD

Roblaza

iTrader: (1)

GTA88

I just took the right front wheel off my Elantra and saw the crank bolt through a cutout in the plastic barrier. I put a wrench on it and tried to turn it, and it won't turn (which I hope is a good thing). I have the car in park. Is this just resistance from the belt on the generator and waterpump and a/c? Once I get a breaker bar on it and apply more force, is it going to turn? From the Youtube videos I was expecting it to turn.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

No, to get that bolt loose you will need to keep the balancer from spinning.

Remove the spark plugs(everytime you try to turn the crank you're working against your own compression)

Remove the belt.

Wrap a rope CLOCKWISE around the balancer a few times.

Tie the loose end off to something sturdy at the top of the engine (a transverse engine mount works well).

Put your breaker bar on the nut and try to break it loose. As you apply pressure to the nut the balancer will turn counter-clockwise and tighten the rope, eventually creating enough pressure to keep the balancer from spinning and allowing you to break the nut loose.

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

You can also thread rope into a cylinder to stop the engine from spinning. Same trick we use for valve springs on the SBC. It keeps the engine from turning so you can loosen or tighten the pulley bolt.

GD

GTA88

Thanks for the tips! By the way, today I tried to turn the crank bolt and it turned, for some reason. Autozone near me says they have a loaner tool for holding the crankshaft pulley. You have to buy it, then return it for a full refund. They know it has been used, but it's OK with them.

GTA88

Update, if anyone's interested. I bought a Harbor Freight 230 foot pound impact wrench. You guessed it, it's not budging the crank bolt. I tried it clockwise and counterclockwise, no luck. I'm letting some Liquid Wrench soak into it overnight. Not having a good feeling about it all though. Might have to go to plans b, c, d, e, f, and maybe g to get this bolt out. I hope when it finally comes out it doesn't destroy the internal threads in the crank snout. Jeez. Might be rusted in. It's a 2009. Maybe I'll have to be a sc*mb*g and buy a 400 foot pound impact wrench, remove the bolt, then return the wrench for a refund. No. Too sleazy. Maybe get a mechanic to loosen it with his 500 foot pound wrench for $20 ?

Thirdgen89GTA

iTrader: (5)

That is the nature of the loaner program. You buy it and get your money back when you return it.

I bought my Power steering pulley tool that way. I just told them I wasn't going to be returning it so they might as well order another one.

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

Those things are on there-TIGHT. Last one I took off of a little 4-cylinder out of a pontiac took a 2-foot 3/4" drive strong arm and a 3-foot piece of steel pipe on top of that.

do you have the room to get that kind of leverage?

GTA88

ANother update, RedLeader: I went down to the vehicle this a.m. not hoping for much, put the cheap harbor fright gun on it, after it had soaked overnight in Liquid Wrench and the **** spun right off! Whole new ballgame now! And no, I don't have much space for pry bars in there. Onward!

RedLeader289

iTrader: (2)

great news! It always feels good to get the tough ones off and finally continue work haha.

sofakingdom

iTrader: (1)

And this is the reason for the grease on the threads, washer, bolt head, etc. We all love to say there won't be a next time, but unfortunately, that's not how life works.

GTA88

OK, update. I am now trying to reinstall the pulley, which I was able to easily wiggle out by hand. Thinking I would easily wiggle it back in by hand, I was disappointed. I can get the pulley to stay on the very edge of the crank nose, and bang away at it using a pretty small hammer and a block of wood. It goes nowhere, just stays on the edge. Maybe a larger hammer would work.

I lubed the inside of the pulley hole with grease. Still no luck. I'm not really slamming it with the hammer, just pretty good taps, going around all edges. I have the pulley flush (right angle) to the crank nose. So frustrating!!! It came right off, but won't go back on.

Another worry is the fact that there is a key ridge on the crank nose about an inch down from the end, that the pulley has to fit over, and if it isn't 100 percent lined up, it will stop when it hits the key ridge, and I won't be able to rotate the pulley into the right spot to get over the key ridge, since it will be moving the crank with it, and I'll have to take it off and start again.


I was thinking of starting the bolt in, and using it to pull the pulley on (it's not a harmonic balancer, just a pulley with 2 grooves in it , one for alternator belt one for a/c belt), but i was yelled at about that already, as being a big no no.


Someone said to heat the pulley in an oven to 160 degrees and the heat would expand the hole. I wonder if the concentric circle of damper material could take 160 degrees.

Or maybe hair drier pointed right at the hole for 5 minutes on high.


Any ideas welcome!

edit to add: oh by the way, no one else in all the youtube videos I watched had this problem !!!! Arrrgggghh!!

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

Use some scotch brite to clean the ID of the balancer and the crank snout. Lube it with some anti-seize. You should be able to spin it on the crank.

Heating to 160 is fine. Engine temps are generally 200+. It won't hurt it at all.

GD

GTA88

ANother update. Thanks, GeneralDisorder, yes, "spin" is the operative word. I went back to the car and acted like I'd just casually "spin" the pulley on, and it spun right on! It even went over the key like it is supposed to. The only thing now is that the edge of the pulley hole facing me is about 1/32 of an inch away from being flush with the end of the crank. i.e., I'm trying to push the pulley 1/32 inch farther on, to get totally flush with the end of the crank . But maybe it's supposed to be like that. Didn't notice when I took it off.

edit to add: I poked around in another car forum and it is a common thing for the end of the crank snout to not quite come out as far as the pulley hole edge. So I feel OK about it. It makes sense, since you actually want all the tension to be on the spacer pulling the pulley on, and not competing with the end of the snout, I would think. Yeah, I know, I'm overthinking it!

GeneralDisorder

iTrader: (1)

That's correct. The bolt bears on the pulley so the crank will be slightly below flush. You may proceed.

GD