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Engine Oils

Old 02-01-2019, 02:04 PM
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Engine Oils

Was searching around and only finding old info, well, since EPA rules change along with oil technology, thought I'd share this info. This is not Chevy specific, but I think there is good info in here to learn from and promote further research.

https://www.bimmerworld.com/BMW-Engine-Oil/

In the end, they seem to really like Red line oil https://www.redlineoil.com/motor-oil and back it up with why. Anyone using this stuff?
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:37 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

For a daily driver, if you change your oil regularly like you're supposed to, walmart oil will work just fine.

All the oils in my race car are synthetic. Engine oil is Royal Purple.
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Old 02-01-2019, 03:59 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by AlkyIROC View Post
For a daily driver, if you change your oil regularly like you're supposed to, walmart oil will work just fine.

All the oils in my race car are synthetic. Engine oil is Royal Purple.
I agree and that's what ive always run in my daily drivers. Wal Mart also has a synthetic oil and synthetic blend I run in my GMC truck. My Pop always said any oil is good as long as you change it
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Old 02-01-2019, 04:08 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

A long read but some interesting data. Especially about zinc content. Short story is Quaker State Ultimate Durability and Mobil 1 as top ranking oils.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:13 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by skinny z View Post
A long read but some interesting data. Especially about zinc content. Short story is Quaker State Ultimate Durability and Mobil 1 as top ranking oils.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
The best oil almost always depends on the conditions and type of test. I saw a Canadian doing cold flow tests with motor oil in subfreezing temperatures and it put Red line and royal purple to shame. If the test involves the motor, tolerances and if it's naturally aspirated if the test involves an engine. Every oil test I've read comes out differently. If your using an oil of the correct weight and viscosity that uses the correct certification as a minimum than any oil will work.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:40 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Just did a quick check and I was surprised to see this site still up. It's at least 20 years old. Lots of reading material to review

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/

Not sure if he still has old stuff on the site but there used to be a great article on oil filters. He would get new filters from many manufacturers and cut them open to see how they were made. Many house brand filters are made from a small handful of filter manufacturers. You could also see why Fram is one of the worst filters to use and how many house brands are made by Fram. Even the new AC Delco filters are not as good as they once were.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:44 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

They used to train us that the filter was actually more important than the oil.. The filter supposedly breaks down before the oil so get a really good filter and change the oil on a regular schedule..
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:48 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

I used to like the Mobile 1 filters and use Wix now.. both are really good..
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Old 02-01-2019, 11:55 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

I put a Wix on everything I own except the race car. That has a System 1 filter on it. After a weekend of racing, I can take it apart to see if anything looks like it's failing then put it back together and put it back on the engine. Having it remotely mounted really helps too. If I didn't use the System 1, I'd have a Wix Racing filter on it. Slightly better than the daily driver Wix filters.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:29 AM
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Re: Engine Oils

I've been using the K&N filters for years. I remember they were one of the higher rated filters, and having that 1" nut welded to the bottom comes in really handy during oil changes.
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Old 02-02-2019, 12:35 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by skinny z View Post
A long read but some interesting data. Especially about zinc content. Short story is Quaker State Ultimate Durability and Mobil 1 as top ranking oils.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
Wow, extensive indeed. Love this part:36. Is Motor Oil Viscosity Index (VI) Useful Information?
Three topics of conversation are absolutely guaranteed to generate passionate and nasty arguments between those involved. Those topics are: Religion
Politics
Motor Oil
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:09 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

This section is probably the most significant considering that it's evident even here in this thread.
TYPICAL GEAR HEAD MINDSET vs ENGINEER MINDSET
Especially regarding zinc/phosphorous/ZDDP.
The myths are so ingrained that people accept them as the truth even though scientifically, they're just that. Myths.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:18 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by skinny z View Post
A long read but some interesting data. Especially about zinc content. Short story is Quaker State Ultimate Durability and Mobil 1 as top ranking oils.
https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/
I need to get back to this when I have some time.
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Old 02-03-2019, 12:52 AM
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Re: Engine Oils

These Chevy engines are very tolerant. Mobil 1 is great in these. The special formulation Mobil 1 is even better as the additives help restore seals etc.

i switched my LB9 and TH700R to Mobil 1 in 2017 at 118,000 miles. Runs perfect.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:03 AM
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Re: Engine Oils

I generally use Mobil 1 5W30 synthetic, with a zinc additive for my flat tappet cars. After going through skinny z's link, I'm almost wondering if that's too much zinc.
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Old 02-03-2019, 11:39 AM
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Re: Engine Oils

I find it interesting that any argument or example presented here or elsewhere is addressed in that test paper.
Here are a couple of choice quotes.

Daily driver vs High Performance

"...for ordinary daily driver vehicles, the oil used is nowhere near as critical as it is for High Performance and Racing engines. So, a normal daily driver vehicle may operate just fine for the life of the engine on say a low performing 60,000 psi motor oil. But, a High Performance or Racing engine may require a high performing 90,000 psi or higher motor oil, to avoid wear and/or damage. It just depends on how much loading the engine puts on its motor oil."

Regarding traditional American flat tappet pushrod V-8 engines specifically:

Stock or lightly modified versions of those engines are best protected by oils that provide 90,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.
Racing and High Performance street versions of those engines are best protected by oils that provide 100,000 psi or higher film strength/load carrying capability/shear resistance.


Regarding zinc:

"In recent years there have been entirely too many wiped cam lobes and ruined lifter failures in traditional American flat tappet engines, even though a variety of well respected brand name parts were typically used. These failures involved people using various high zinc oils, various high zinc Break-In oils, various Diesel oils, and various oils with aftermarket zinc additives added to the oil. They believed that any high zinc oil concoction is all they needed for wear protection during flat tappet engine break-in and after break-in. But, all of those failures have proven over and over again, that their belief in high zinc was nothing more than a MYTH, just as my test data has shown.
A high level of zinc/phos is simply no guarantee of providing sufficient wear protection. And to make matters even worse, excessively high levels of zinc/phos can actually “cause” DAMAGE your engine, rather than “prevent” it. Motor Oil Industry testing has found that motor oils with more than 1,400 ppm ZDDP, INCREASED long-term wear. And it was also found that motor oils with more than 2,000 ppm ZDDP started attacking the grain boundaries in the iron, resulting in camshaft spalling (pitting and flaking). The ZDDP value is simply the average of the zinc and the phosphorus values, then rounded down to the nearest 100 ppm (parts per million).
From those failures where I was able to find out what specific oils were used, it turned out that those were oils I had already performed my Engineering Wear Protection Capability tests on. And all those oils had only provided poor wear protection capability, meaning that if they had looked at my test data before using those oils, they would have known in advance that their engines would be at significant risk of failure with those oils. And that is just what happened.
A number of people who have had those failures, and some had repeated failures, have contacted me, asking what they can do to prevent that failure in the future. I tell them to forget all that high zinc nonsense and look at my Wear Protection Ranking List. And to select any high ranking oil there, no matter how much zinc it has, because zinc quantity simply does NOT matter. The only thing that matters regarding wear protection, is the psi value each oil can produce in my testing. The higher the psi value, the better the wear protection. I recommend they use the SAME highly ranked oil for break-in and after break-in. It’s that simple.
WHEN PEOPLE HAVE TAKEN THAT ADVICE, NOT ONE PERSON HAS EVER COME BACK TO ME TO REPORT THAT MY RANKING LIST DID NOT WORK FOR THEM. Since my ranking list has worked in every case to prevent wiped flat tappet lobes and lifters, it can also work for you to provide the best possible wear protection for your engine. My test data is the real deal, it exactly matches real world experience, and it is the best and most complete motor oil comparison data you will ever find anywhere.
And for those people who have been able to use various high zinc oils without having trouble with their flat tappet engines, that only means that the oil they used had enough wear protection capability for the loads their engines saw at that time. It does not mean they were necessarily using a great oil. And it does not provide any information about how much reserve wear protection capability their oil provided, nor how their oil compares to other oils on the market.
But, there are some high zinc oils that do provide excellent wear protection. And you can see which ones they are, by looking at my ranking list below."


Take this whatever way you want. If something is working for you I'm not going to argue but even that particular point is addressed.

TYPICAL GEAR HEAD MINDSET vs ENGINEER MINDSET

"A typical Gear Head’s mindset regarding new flat tappet engine Break-In is, “What I’ve been doing works, so I don’t want to change anything”. An Engineer’s mindset is, “No matter what you’ve been doing, let’s see if we can move forward and improve things, making them “better” than they were before”.
An example of this regarding motor oil is, a typical Gear Head has been using some high zinc oil, or some oil with an aftermarket zinc additive also poured in. And with that, he “thinks” he has made a good oil selection. But, using oil like that, knowing nothing more than the zinc level, requires a careful and elaborate break-in procedure, if there is any hope of not wiping any lobes in a flat tappet engine. He’s managed to get by with this, so he thinks he has it all figured out.
But, when his motor oil concoction is put through Engineering Wear Protection Testing, the results often show it to be a low performer regarding film strength load carrying capability, no matter how much zinc is present. As a result, that oil ranks rather low on my Wear Protection Ranking List, and means that it provided only a very low Margin of Safety. With this being the case, the engine was at significant risk of failure. So, he has essentially been playing Russian Roulette with his engine, without even knowing it."

Last edited by skinny z; 02-03-2019 at 11:43 AM.
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Old 02-03-2019, 01:31 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by AlkyIROC View Post
For a daily driver, if you change your oil regularly like you're supposed to, walmart oil will work just fine. All the oils in my race car are synthetic. Engine oil is Royal Purple.
The only daily driver we have in this house hold is my wifes car. All the others get beat to hell one way or another!

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Old 02-03-2019, 04:51 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

Originally Posted by AlkyIROC View Post
All the oils in my race car are synthetic. Engine oil is Royal Purple.
Royal Purple is number 96 on the list. Wear value less than 100 000 PSI.

96. 5W20 Royal Purple API SN synthetic = 90,434 psi
zinc = 964 ppm
phos = 892 ppm
moly = 0 ppm


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Old 02-03-2019, 07:30 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

But oil isn't in my engine for 3000 miles either.
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Old 02-03-2019, 07:49 PM
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Re: Engine Oils

There is something to be said for that. To tie it into the tech paper in question, it`s pointed out that engine oils deteriorate over time ( no news there). In particular, oils that have somewhat acceptable film strength such as those needed for flat tappet engines, become worse over time and the ZDDP content diminishes over time.
For the record, the worst failure I've experienced regarding cam-lifter failure was the flat tappet cam that went south in one of my earlier builds. I can squarely blame myself for not doing regular maintenance and keeping whatever oil I had in there fresh. I didn't give that engine a fighting chance unfortunately.
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