Beatty. Been using them for almost 30 years

 

Those FloTek heads are not spectacular in as cast form but will get very good if you port them.
The hand porting and custom prep makes the difference.
It should be part of your plan.
Lots of potential...

 

I remember Beatty & Woods from way back in the day, in Toronto. Didn't know they still existed.

 

My go to shop since the late 70's in my first incarnation as a racer. And again when Chuck was on his own 20 years later when I returned to the sport. Last go round was with his son Jeff as Chuck had retired to his boat. (As of my latest contact pre- covid.)
Excellent shop IMHO.
Tell Jeff Kevin from Barrie says hello!

 

Oh yeah they're still going. Great guys and the same guys.

 

Will do. Jeff is there and Chuck still shows up. It's in his blood lol

 

Good to hear he's still drawing breath.
I've had three or four engines come out of that shop since the mid 2000's.
Yep. Top notch work. Fair too. At least from my perspective.

 

I've run three cams in a couple of 350's.
XR276HR. 276/282, 224/230, 110 in on 106. Stock Vortecs. Ran great. Took a purely street car with drag tires into the 12's. Drove like stock. Good gas mileage.
Also used with aftermarket Vortecs and faster still. High 12's. Drove the same as the previous version.
Spec'd my own grind from COMP XFI lobes. 274/280, 224/230, 110 on on a 106. Fastest yet with mid 12's (uncorrected too that is).
Next was COMPs XR288HR. 288/294, 236/242, 110 in on a 102. Slightly less compression than the first couple (10.4 down to 10 even). Never tested at the track but great on the street with some tuning. Excellent mileage too with more tuning.
All split duration. None spec'd as ideal but the XFI cam, in reverse simulation, was the best of the lot with the RPMs involved. Shift at 6000. Carry to 6500.
The 288 wanted a 6500 shift and carry to 7000 but the old valvetrain **** the bed (lost a lifter). RPM hurts...
All with an incredibly crappy exhaust.

 

And here I am thinking about how in the next build I want to push beyond 7500rpm, and upwards near 8000. Which will probably involve a larger split duration than I'm running right now (current 231/239 @ 110). Obviously will need to move to a shaft rocker system for that over what I have now. That move will probably involve moving to a LS platform because the heads & exhaust are just that much better. I looked at what it might take from a SBC or Gen2 LT1 standpoint and the costs escalate just as quickly, so I might as well make the jump to LS.

 

I would have tried that XFI hr cam with solid roller lifters and better dual valve springs.
Then you'd see it rev up nice.. Then tweek a bit more with the installed phasing. IMHO you were on the right track but if wanting to rev it up ditch the HR lifters.

 

Your money would be much better spent and the power result much better if you went to the supercharged path (RPMs 7000-7500 is afforable)
VS chasing extreme high rpms that will cost more and not pay off on the street.

 

Yeah but the sound of an 8000 rpm sbc is worth alot imo, esp on a ls firing order

 

Now that would rival angels with bugels

 

Hydraulics notwithstanding, if I were to keep the revs in check, and by check I mean 6500 as max RPM with the shift at 6000, it looks like I was indeed on the right track with that little cam. It worked well with a 10.4 SCR and 8.4 DCR. It was a little finicky in the rattle department when trying to tune for lean cruise with plenty of spark advance. But that's the fine line you walk when trying to optimize a race platform with a cruiser.
Quality lifters (of the HR variety) and a lightweight valvetrain are my proven recipe. And I know that the same collection of hardware will take 7k. Just not for a 60,000 km lifecycle. That's how old those COMP short travel lifters ($$$) were when one let go and that's where I made that engine fatal error.
I still have that cam but it too has gone nearly 40,000 km. It would be mechanical suicide to reuse it.

 

Don't fool yourself ( and I'm pretty sure you're not) but the old SBC has plenty left in the tank. Heads out there being ported by the likes of Speier or Weingartner (among others) can rival an LS version if valve and port sizes are on an equal footings. Zinging a Gen 1 to 8k is done everyday. But it's certainly entering race territory. Shaft rockers as you mention are mandatory I would say. That said, any LS with that kind of RPM ceiling still requires the valvetrain to do so. So it's kind of dollar for dollar really.
I have another Camaro roller in the yard. Quite clean but in need of an entire valvetrain. The cost of just the LS swap parts alone (and good proven parts that fit well) would take a fair chunk out of the budget. Considering I have nothing even Gen 1 related for it, it's not as big of a hit but if I were to take my current chassis and retrofit it, then I have incur that cost up front. All the good bits like headers, crossmember, engine mounts, accessory drive, I have for a Gen 1 would be put aside.
Then there's the fuel and ignition management part which I have nothing for. Some might and it could be transferable but that's not the case for me.
FWIW, that's my math on the subject.

 

It is a sweet sound...Even 7k is pretty cool.

 

Already have an engine that spins to 7k all day long. limiter is 7200. It does sound pretty good.

Engine management is going Holley EFI. I'm moving the current engine to that platform, which I can then later use on a LS no problem. Plus this gets me CNP ignition, which I desperately need, OPTISpark is NOT happy.

OEM aluminum blocks + 12-15° heads stock. Their Intake/Exhaust ratios are much better. Intakes that have the required flow are more plentiful, and will allow me to keep a lower hood-line.

If I go SBC, I will only go SBC if I do an aluminum block, which will be aftermarket. Then I'm looking at something like the Pro-Filer 12° SBC head. And there goes the $$$$$.

The LS has 50 years+ of design tweaks that just make it better on every talking point.

 

Not to wander too far off topic but how fast do you want to go?
NA or boosted?

 

Wow. So no one has camshafts and COMP has no idea when they'll have any. And that's right from COMP. So now I'm looking at the LT4 Hotcam with 1.6 rockers. I have no intention of waiting 6 months for a Camshaft. Is there anything to do other than setting the length of the dowel pin to use this in a TPI? It also has a fuel pump lobe. Is that going to be a problem? I wouldn't think it should.

 

Clay Smith has them.

 

Thanks. I'll take a look. I've actually never heard of them. How daft is that?

 

All but one aspect. Gen 1 still handily makes more torque in the low-midrange. It takes a VVT equiped LY6 to make the same torque as a stock vortec 350 under 3,000-3,500 rpm. Important for cruising around in a street vehicle not so much racing.

 

Is that a stepped nose cam as in an OEM? I hear cores are scarce.

 

I'll ask again.
I know several guys who are in the 10's with 400+ inch SBCs, carbed and NA. None of them that I'm aware have ventured outside of the 23° head.

 

While true, I will say the LQ4 in my 03 literally wiped the floor in all aspects compared to my 99 tahoe with an L31... Like it wasn't even close and the vortec even had a dyno tune while the LQ4 was stock... From basically 2200 or so onward it wasn't even close... So like immediately off the line.

Now I will say a modded SBC definitely lends itself to better street manners because they do retain that better low end power in a lot of cases... I'm in LS3 territory currently with a setup that should be a lot more outgunned than that on a 350... My biggest issue is I like a challenge... and like junkyard LS engines around here aren't cheap and then I just don't have the time to invest in a swap and because of that I value it substantially more than most people... It's spend more on good 350 parts or spend less but more time on an LS. I like that I can just bolt and go vs literally custom fabricating everything.

 

The popular Melling cam #22280 is available.
Check it.. 220/224 .495/.503 110 107/113
Can optional use 1.6 rockers for more lift
.528/.503. or .528/.536"
A lot of the popular 355-383 high perf assembled Crate Engines are using this HR cam.
Its one of the sbc hr cams that is in stock available.

 

what specs did you decide on? Summit has their brand pro sbc cams. Stage 3 and 4 look ok. Hot cam clone and one slightly bigger. 224/232 or something

Trick flow has some models too

you could also possibly use a retro fit cam with a cam button cover i guess

 

My thoughts as well.
But know the source of that core. Buying junk here, aware or otherwise, isn't something I'd advise.
I'll pony up the ridiculous difference in our respective dollars (last I looked it was a 36% premium) to get something I know has at least some level of QC.

Don't discount the idea of finding some suitable cam out there and having it reground. Did I hear a regrind would be three weeks out?

 

Agreed, I like a challenge. I built a L31 383 making 500 hp using a ported stock intake. I am putting a ported marine manifold on it now to see how much more I can get out of it.

I found my 97 L31 just the opposite. I had ZERO issues running away from stock LQ4 2500s or 5.3L 1500s up until about 90 mph and that was stock for stock. My 97 had the OE dual 2.5" outlet manifolds and 3" duals to the muffler. My 99 Tahoe was a DOG. It had a much larger lip on the throttle body, the tiny head pipes and when I compared stock tunes the 99 had as much as 8° less ignition advance compared to the 97 in the 80+ KPA range. I put headers, 2.5" pipes to the muffler, removed the throttle body EGR diffuser lip and put the 97 timing map into the 99. Was a completely different truck after. The 99 also had mexican 062 heads to the 97s canadian 906s. I think GM tried to kill off the power in the 99s to make people buy the 99 5.3s. Similar to the way they choked down the 96 LT4 with smaller intake ports that do not match the head ports. I have personally watched a stock 96 LT4 with a ported intake gain 30 hp at peak and close to 50 hp at redline.

6.0L and larger typically are $$$ here unless you run into a deal. 5.3Ls and 4.8Ls do nothing for me without boost.

 

Clay Smith has a couple of really nice Chris Straub designed cams.

 

I built a mild 383 for a regular cab long bed C3500 (00) and lined it up against an 07 2500 double cab long bed. It always got the jump until 40 mph or so but again couldn't keep up. (This is despite the 2500 being nearly 2000 lbs heavier) could never explain that one as the 383 made some 30+ more numbers about everywhere just lower in the power band... still had the 906 heads too. Which was weird for that late in production.

Have a 5.3 in the 18. Regardless of GM claiming better power than the old 6.0... its a dog. my 3.6 in my colorado walks it and they scale in the same.

 

I'm sticking with TPI so I want a cam that's good up to 5600. That COMP 08-503-8 fit the bill. I want .503'ish lift and around the same on the exhaust. The other thing is, do I really need to stay with a "Computer controlled" Cam? How critical is that?

 

[QUOTE=Fast355;6486861] I built a L31 383 making 500 hp using a ported stock intake.]

What kind of RPM were you turning? Peak HP RPM?

 

[QUOTE=skinny z;6486880]5,600-5,700 for peak, it will twist 6,200 without falling off much.

 

GM still has a step nose steel core roller you can buy for ~$105. Then send it to Jones and get it reground for $265. Awesome deal if you ask me. Steel core is better than a cast core any day of the week.

https://www.gmpartsdirect.com/oem-pa...shaft-94666492

 

The L83 makes really good power upstairs, but seriously lacks torque. I looked at Kodiak Marines power chart and the 5.7 L31 and 6.0L LY6 both destroy the L83 until it is way up in its powerband. GM lost my interest with their trucks when they started putting LS engines in them. I jumped ship first Dodge and then to Nissan. The first generation 5.7L Hemi is equally powerful to a 6.0L but the 545RFE is a steaming pile of garbage like a 4L60E. Then I moved on to Nissan. A first generation VK56DE 5.6L will do bad things to a 6.0L much less a 5.3. CAI, Muffler swap and Hypertech Tuning of all things netted 330 rwhp and 396 rwtq and a 13.5 @ 101 1/4 mile with my 2012 Titan. It would tow an 8,000 lbs trailer uphill in 4th at 2,500 rpm all day long. The new direct injected 5.6 has 70 hp on the older port fuel one and combined with a 7spd automatic gets 3-5 mpg better in the same driving in a heavier truck.

 

Excellent work detective!
​​​​​​That's a cheap cam IMO considering his price list.


I see his regrind prices may have gone up though.

 

Not sure, he quoted me that less than a week ago.

 

94666492. camshaft. is $127 (CAN) in Canada.
Its ground on 112LSA so if getting it re-ground to yiur specs choice keep the new LSA at or close to 112°
Pretty much any all the popular camshaft companies can re-grind this cam for you.
Comp, Lunati, Bullet, Isky etc
All yiu need to do is call them.
Yiu will be paying shipping both ways.

 

If you or the guys @Beatty and Woods cannot get you the camshaft you want in Canada
then if you don't mind the drive/day trip from Toronto to Niagara Falls NY. you might call KS Auto in North Tonawanda NY. (google it). They draw from about 6 different auto parts supply warehouses in North eastern/ mid USA.. If they can't get it, it cannot be got.. Call and ask what they got in stock and or can get (1 - 2 days). There are many Brands of off the shelf cams that are what you want.
Including the popular Melling #22280. / Elgin
#E-1871-P. A Lunati voodoo cam, Howards etc etc
They will call you when they get it.. Drive down and pick it up.. You will pay 13% at the border.

KS Auto may have what you want , in stock.
call them.

This is the retail store I work with to use Comp Cams custom camshaft grinding service.
You can too.

 

I used to go there all the time. Niagara Street. I can't find anything from anyone other than something close to stock, or 110 lobe separation which I think will throw the computer for a loop. I can get a Trick flow TFS31402081 but I fear that may be to much cam. There's also a summit cam but the intake lift is greater than the exhaust. I'm not sure that's a good plan

 

Its not the LSA. its the overlap.

intake Duration/2 - LSA = overlap (intake)
Exhaust Duration /2 -LSA = overlap (exhaust)
Add up the in and ex overlap together for cam overlap.
That melling cam on 110 is fine.
I don't see a big problem with that TFS cam on 113 either.
I prefer the melling 22280 cam myself.
great with 1.6/1.5 rockers.
You can move the installed position to tweek the engine torque curve if you like to play.
EG: 104/116 centers VS 107/113 as made
Magnifies the low end grunt.

I bet you can get this cam in Canada locally.
If KS Auto cannot help you quickly then every body is in the same boat re: cam core supply and then you might as well wait to buy anywhere right now.
Its winter anyway.

 

I'm looking at that Melling you suggested against the LT4 Hotcam. I can get the LT4. The Melling is sold out. Do you know anything about the Hotcam?

 

I don't know the exact amount of camshaft overlap (which effects the manifold vacuum at idle and low speed) that beyond , causes the stock GM TPI computer to loose its ****.

 

Never tried the GM LT4 hot cam.
Its similar. , in the same same ball park.

 

218/228 @ .050"
.525/.525 lift w/1.6rr's
112* LSA

That Melling with 1.6's would be 528/536 which is right in my heads sweet spot between flow numbers for .500 & .600

 

Yes.. The exhaust lift is not that critical on a sbc.
on the exhaust side it is all about the duration and thus actual exhaust open close events.
Thus a 1.6 in/ 1.5 ex ratio set is very popular.
.net .528"/.503" at the valve.
Its the intake side on a SBC that benefits by using increased intake rocker ratio for more intake valve lift..
Especially if when the cams intake duration is mild as these ALL are.

The LT-4 cam will run fine with 1.5 rockers.
and should benefit from either a 1.6/1.5 set or 1.6/1.6.
Onany cam like these ALL if you want to tame the overall net effect of cam OVERLAP a bit,
then choose the lower 1.5:1 exhaust side rocker ratio.
(1.6/1.5)
This tames the idle just a hair.
You can also advance the cam a bit too to tame the idle vaccum a hair.
EG the hot cam is 109/115 centers (112 LSA) thus its 3 degrees advanced.
To close the exhaust valve a hair earlier advance that cam a but more to say 107/117 centers. its now 5 degrees advanced.. The combibed effect will tame the idle vaccum a small amount if that is critical.
Same same with the Melling cam. eg 104/116 centers. Exhaust valve closes a hair earlier..
If the GM LT-4 cam DOES run in these TPI engines with the GM computer I'd say all these others will also. They are all very comparable.

If it is known that the GM LT-4 hot cam causes the TPI computer to foul up the drivability then all these other very similsr cams will also likely cause same issues.
I cannot see it needing more than a change in the base timing and basic timing curve a bit.
( You want the same same max WOT spark timing.
SBC 34-36 deg BTDC @ WOT rpm.)
All these cams will like increased base idle timing to idle best and creat the best idle manifold vacuum. All of them.

 

Ah ok so this is why exhaust duration is longer than intake. I assume the longer open time will assist with evacuation. Now I'm onto the SUM-8802 Summit cam. I know it's winter but I don't think there's going to be any Cams for quite sometime. Just one dealer I called had 120 orders for one of the COMPS. Thats's just one shop.

 

Yup you got the story.. We are all waiting on cams pistons bearings and more.. The supply chain all over is a big mess..
That TFS track max cam: If you want to run high ratio rockers on it be sure your valve springs are up to that job.. The rocker ratio has a multiplying effect on the VALVE MOTION. it multiplies lift AND it multiplies Valve motion open close acceleration/ deceleration... ( The valve moves quicker faster farther open close) This needs better valve spring control.. Thats why the LT-4 engine and the high perf LS engines use light weight valves..
as the OEMs like to run as little valve spring seat/ open force as they can get away with.
Standard weight valves with high rocker ratio will need more spring force fir X rpm limit.
That TFS .530" lift cam I would stay with a 1.5 rocker ratio on that one for the street. It still needs good springs . There is no free lunch in all thus stuff. Increased valve motion needs better spring control.

 

That Summit Hot Cam Plus looks very usefull.
Probabily can stay with 1.5 rockers. If using higher ratio be sure the valve springs are uo to it.
just looking at it I'd be tempted to play a bit with the cams installed position to fine tune it.
All these summit sbc HR cams look very usfull for street stuff.. All will need good springs and good quality HR lifters.
All the Sumnit house brand stuff seems to work very well IMHE.