I’m old and a first gen guy. I am looking for a car to work on with my son (30). He thinks a 3rd Gen would be a decent platform.

I have a couple questions;

are any years preferred over other?
we have engines and stuff around here so power is not a big deal. We could drop a 383 in it pretty easy.

Manual transmission is a must have. is a manual swap easy? Most cars are auto. I am sure used T5s are cheap and a TKX is not out of the question. More concerned about computer I terrain and keeping the gauges working correctly.

I found a decent non t top 91 for reasonable price. I know the later model cars have airbags.

thanks. Hope I become an active member here.

 

Last i was looking at thirdgens the year was 1990 and lots to chose from-i found what i wanted and still driving it I have had 1st gen too,early build '69,8-68 built. I like early thirds just because i like early and mid 1980s. Earlier cars can have odd brake line fittings and the like.Good T5s may be hard to find anymore- tranny a little undersized and aluminum case was too soft,distorts and gear mesh is affected. T56 way better,but might be scarce in 2026. Manual swap is easy. Gauges do not run through ECM, but speedo is electric for post-89 camaro and most post '85 firebirds. If i had late thirdgen with airbag i would swap for non-airbag wheel since early airbags are violent deployment and ugly as sin....Good luck on the search

 

Good info.

I have owned three third gens, but was in a phase of my life when I wasnt keeping cars very long, and never had one over a year or so.
I figured the computer control is pretty weak anyway, knowing what I know today, any stock fuel injection will get removed anyway..

I know some early cars had digital gauges, that seems like something to stay away from.

The 91 I found is a base RS car, no t-tops, 305 700r trans, no power windows! I dont think I have ever seen a third gen without power windows. I am guessing it would have the power hatch setup.

Any issues to look for?
Obvious crash damage, especially in the engine bay. Is there any hiding places for rust I should be aware of?

Owner said there is an issue with "fuel smell". Do I remember right the fuel tank is above the rear end in these cars, and the rear end needs to be dropped to access the fuel tank (fuel pump, etc)

And is Spohn Performance still the 3rd Gen people? Any other houses to know about?

 

Look for rust around the toe boards. They hide rust where the front wheel well meets the toe board/kick panels. Also the rockers behind the front fenders. Spohn/umi make good stuff. So does founders. The older cars are a little lighter cause they have less stuff. They all need numerous braces. I have every piece of bracing in the front end i could get and inner and outer SFCs. The rears are so-so. The dash harness and ecm harness are mostly separate. I have a standalone efi and used stock gauges for years.

Drivetrains ate simple. I have a magnum f w a sbc. But anything fits.

 

Good deal. Yeah I am on board with a third gen now. I remember saying many times “these are not the best cars Chevy ever made”. But appears they have held up well and the aftermarket support is here.

 

Every car chevy made has some kind of issues. Hell, what doesn't have issues! These cars totally twist up w/o proper support and high HP. All the creaking and rattling is easily fixed(kind of!). I have an a 82 trans am. There is probably the least support for 82-84 firebirds. Some of the body and interior parts don't have the best support. The Camaros are easier for body and interior parts/upgrades. Hood clearance is another issue but better on camaros. The good thing is, all the issues were figured out 20 yrs ago and there's great fixes now.

 

Be careful in just yanking things out for no reason. They did that during the first gen era and the original cars with stock parts were the ones most sought after. Of course, these days everything, no matter what the condition, is high dollar on the first gens.

I don’t remember reading about too many problems compared to the early C4 Corvettes. However, it is something that could be very expensive to fix, or not at all, if it has that option. The only Camaros that had digital gauges were the ‘84-‘86 Berlinetta and the ‘85-‘88 Trans Am/GTA.

I think they all had the power hatch feature by that point.

Rocker panels near the wheel well openings, inside the engine bay under the battery tray and under the coolant/washer tanks.

The fuel smell could be cracked or damaged fuel lines. If someone has already cut a trap door in the hatch to replace the fuel pump, that could be a source of the fuel smell as well. The fuel tank is right under the hatch floor behind the rear seats.

 

Since you plan on an engine/trans swap anyway, the shell will be the main decision. ‘91 & ‘92 cars received more welds and adhesive when built than the previous years to address the rattles and creaks common to third gen’s. My friends ‘92 hardtop is night & day better than my ‘86 t-top car WITH sub frame connectors. His car is now running a 450hp stroked LS1/T56 combo, still without sfc’s. Not a track car tho, only street driven. Good luck and keep us posted!

 

'88+ had the serpentine setup, versus v-belts.

'89+ had the better PBR rear calipers standard.

'87+ GTAs had the best seats, but the earlier Firebirds had cool options (PMDs, Recaros).

Digital dash option was '84-'86 on Camaros and '87-'89 on Firebirds I believe. I don't know if they're particularly breakage-prone, but it's getting harder to find factory parts anymore.

'90-'92 TPI were speed-density, not MAF. If you're planning to make bigger power on the factory ECU, it's the better platform.

'85-'89 had the Borg Warner 9-bolt as an option. Cone-style posi, 7.75" ring gear, and bolt-in axles.

 

It's some 1991 F-body cars built after a certain date and all 1992 F-body cars. There are YouTube videos and other information online that claim all 1991 and 1992 F-body cars had the improvements from the Quality Now Initiative and they are WRONG.

The 1990 model year was very short with all 1990 model year F-body cars built on or before December 31st 1989. The 1991 model year F-body cars had a very long production run starting in I think February of 1990 and continuing through August of 1991. The Quality Now Initiative started in February of 1991 and went through the end of 3rd generation F-body production in August of 1992 with more improvements being added to production along the way from the start of the program.

A 1991 F-body would have to have been made by at least February 1991 or later to have any of the improvements. I don't know right off hand the exact start date these improvements hit the assembly line.

Here is a 1991 video about the Firebird Quality Now Initiative. When the guy is showing the improvements in the hatch area one thing I noticed is my 1992 Firebird has two black plastic rub strips about 2 or so inches long riveted to the body to keep the hatch assembly centered in the opening and prevent it from wiggling around on the weather striping making noise and banging around in the opening making noise. This was an improvement made later on in the Quality Now Initiative program.


I would attach the 1992 version of this video that mentioned the February 1991 start of the program that's not on YouTube but this website just can't handle a file as new and advanced as a .mp4 file is.

I my or may not convert it to a .mov file and upload it later. Depends on how lazy I'm feelings after I stuff my belly with a late supper.

 

Don’t forget the improvements they made to the A and C pillar on the T-top cars. They added additional bolt on brackets to the T-top pin receptacles. They’re completely bolt on so you can upgrade an earlier car if you have the brackets.

 

typical FB marketplace issues... sold then not sold, you know the deal.

This is what I would call a base 91 RS, no power windows or locks. It is a 305 automatic car.
AC is there but doesnt work, grey interior in very good condition, body appears okay from pictures, but the hatch does look like it lines up a little funny (spoiler alignment). Door gaps appear okay from the pictures. Car idles high and has check engine light. Owner states "smell of gas". I will check and see if someone has cut the floor there.
I am in SC, there is a massive 3rd gen shop in SC, Hawks in Easly, they look pricey but have a ton of used parts. I wasn't sure of the aftermarket support, but looks about as good as it is for the first gen cars. Lots of interior parts are available, to me that is important. Looking at something like a Nissan 200SX or old Corolla and the choices/options get scarce quickly. I think a 3rd gen is good platform, cars are still relatively affordable.

@formularpm that is excellent info brother, thank you!

 

This is fairly common on thirdgens, usually means the hatch hinges themselves are bent. With how heavy these hatches are, and how strong the struts are, there's a lot of stress put on the lil hinges at the top. From factory, they sit flat against the body of the car/ the glass, but more often than not, you'll see em with a sorta U shaped bend in 'em. This causes the entire hatch to be pushed towards the back of the car a little bit, giving you the big gap at the top of the hatch, and a decklid that overhangs. Usually doesn't cause too much of an issue, and you can adjust the latch in your trunk to account for it, but you can also get replacement billet hinges to fix it... not sure if stock replacements are available. They're a little pricey if you get 'em through Hawk's (which is where I got my set), though I have seen veeeeeeeery similar looking sets on eBay for about $30 recently.... couldn't tell you if those cheaper hinges are any good, or any different, but they're certainly out there.

 

Didn’t some people have problems with the hatch glass shattering using those billet hinges?

 

Other than during the install, not that I'm aware of. You can shatter the glass pretty easily if you overtighten the bolts that go through the glass, but I've had mine on for over a year now (along with new stupidly strong struts) without any issues, and my hatch sees a lot of use. They bolted up easily enough, but getting the glass in place was obviously a massive PITA, took 3 people since I opted to pull the hatch off completely. Could probably get away with 2, or one if you go the route that LSXMatt did and install 'em one side at a time, but I wanted to be careful since my car sits outside and I didn't want to risk having no hatch in the middle of thunderstorm season. I also opted to tighten the bolts on the glass just using a socket on an extension, didn't feel like using a ratchet would end well. Hinges were bolted to the body first, then the glass was carried over, and the glass bolts were tightened to the hinges while 2 people held it in place as still as possible. Should also note that it'd be a good idea to put a towel over the metal edging on the glass so you don't scratch up the back of the drainage channel on the body of the car, I ended up having to get in there with some paint on a q-tip to fix some scratches afterwards.

 

Haven't installed my billet hinges yet. I'm a bit nervous about it. My plan is to just turn the nuts until they seat, without any actual torque applied, and use some Locktite to prevent them from backing off...

 

@LLCooLM495 That is exactly what the issue was.

Well the 91 got away...
Found another one, an 86, really low miles, had the digital dash, it got away too.
The more I look at them, I may end up spending a little more than planned if it is the right car. Something like a loaded Firebird Formula would be killer, very cool car. And any V8 car with a factory manual trans would be a target.
There are a couple LS swapped cars near me, but I am not sure I want to buy someone else's problems. A couple of these are not finished and that seems odd... maybe they bit off more than they could chew and there is a potential deal on something like this out there. But I am focusing on stock unmolested cars.

 

Yeah, buying a car already swapped is a tough call. Buying a car someone messed with can be a nightmare. If its a running driving car and someone can go through what was done then maybe. A project thats 50% done is a disaster that i wouldn't touch. I just bought an old bronco that had all the right parts put on. Like, they were put on the car but not adjusted or loose or backward. Ive just spent the last 3-4 months going through it and correcting lots of little stuff. The car has all the right stuff. Its just not put on right! But it is a project and I'm OK w that.

i agree w a lower mileage formula or something like that. You just gotta think about what you want. A nice 5 speed tpi formula would be fun and quick enough to enjoy. Something w a built 350 or a LS will be a totally different animal in every way.

just for a point of reference, a friend of mine bought a mint 86 or 87 iroc w an LG4 305 and a 5 speed. It had 40k(ish) on it. He payed 14k for it. Its not as desirable as a tpi car but it was a reasonable price for what it is.

 

Keep looking, you never know when the right one will pop up. I was looking passively for over a year and had a few false starts when I started getting serious. Then one Saturday morning while having my coffee I popped onto eBay and saw a newly listed '89 IROC with few pictures but still had all the emissions equipment intact. Nobody was awake to sanity check me so I clicked Buy it Now at $12.5k, it was in my driveway a week later. Sure the paint thickness is probably 30mil in some places, the fuel pump was bad, and the poor bose speakers were hacked up, but park it at an evening car show people are gonna pass by and say 'The coolest kid in highschool had one just like that'.