ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Ok, here's the deal. I bought this car off ebay, and went to pick it up in Seattle. Because the car came from out of state, I had to get it inspected before I can get tags. So I took it down to the inspection place here in town, and the old hag that inspected is says it does NOT pass inspection. Why? Because the rivets holding my VIN plate to the dash are round instead of rosetta shaped (like flower shaped). She claims that the VIN plate must have been changed, and suggested that the car may have really been totaled and swapped to a different car.
Ok. Now, first of all, the car has never been wrecked. You can tell. It rides too nice... and the good old Van Nuys paint is looking about 15 years old, as it should. Not to mention that the VIN sticker under the hood is matching. As well as under the hatch. And the door. And the center console. And rear cargo compartment. And just to humor her, I checked the engine block, right below the alternator. Sure enough, there's the last 8 digits of the VIN stamped there. Gee, somebody must have gone through a lot of trouble to salvage this car, as she says... Not to mention that I ran a carfax on the car, and nothing suspicious came up. Basically I know this car is the car I think it is. I would bet my life on it. But my question is... what is up with the rivets? I looked at them, and sure enough, they are different from the rivets on my camaro. Any ideas as to why the VIN plate may have been pulled off at any time? The VIN is mounted to the dash, not the windshield, right? Is there any repair that might have warranted removing the VIN plate? Or is the inspection lady just smoking crack?

iroc5speed

well, don't really know why r even if they were removed at some point in time, but I'd say just get it inspected somewhere else

AlkyIROC

Since you've already checked the other VIN decals in the car and they all match I'd say the VIN plate is original. If someone is going through all the trouble to swap VIN plates to hide a vehicle, chances are they aren't going to strip it to find all the VIN decals throughout the car. The rear hatch could have been swapped from a doner car with the same VIN plate but the rear fenders wouldn't have been.

I'd say since all your other decals match the VIN, go to someplace else to get it registered.

About the only time I could guess that someone would remove the VIN plate would be if they striped the car right down to do a complete color change repaint. Since you say the water based paint looks 15 years old I can assume it hasn't been painted.

Take it back to the old hag. If she still refuses to register it, ask to see her superior and argue your point about all the other numbers matching. Although I haven't seen it (never looked) the VIN could be stamped on the drivers side of the front subframe. Something like that can't be changed easily and still make a profit on a wrecked car.

Guest

Ok, asked the local expert (he asked his friend at GM who didnt want to provide a whole lot of info on it)

They are different every year. The ones on my 86 have about 6 or 7 slight indentations around the outside of the diameter of the rivit. Other than that, they are round and more like a cylinder rather than the bent washer type looking thing that most rivits look like. He also said most people who inspect cars have no clue whats supposed to be on there. I dunno what 87's look like, you can probably just go check out some other 87's and see what style they are and go from there.

Just from your description of all the other matching VIN information on the car, shes smoking crack.

chevymad

Here's a place that say they have vin tag rivets.

http://www.trimtags.com/

They're usually used on classic cars because the plate is pulled to clean and paint underneath.

Vader

Tell her she CAN'T have Toto, and that she should really watch out for flying houses. Fork the be-atch and talk to a supervisor.

Just my 2¢

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Well, I took it to a different inspection place. The lady that inspected it this time didnt find anything wrong with it. Unfortunately the b*tch that inspected it the first time wrote a number on the top of the title to call and talk to her. So now they won't register it at all. I have to take it to some sargeant who will do *** only knows what with the car. She said they will probably give it a new VIN. Now WTF??? Why are they going to give the car a new VIN when the old one already matches?!?!?

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

She can't just "say" something has to be a certain way. It needs to be backed up with official documentation.

Take this as far as you need to. Don't accept a reassigned VIN.

I'm heading out to the parking lot now, I'll look at my rivets then. But, that's no better than what she says it should be...

Guest

I agree with five7, shes going to need some sort of backup besides her opinion. Otherwise her opinion aint worth squat. Talk to her supervisor, stop playing games with the peons at lower levels.

Iroc87

here's a picture of the rivets on my 87

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, that's what mine look like, too. VIN decoders says Van Nuys built.

TomP

Now why, oh, why didn't you erase/rip/cross that # off? Find out who this sargeant is and what he's planning to do before you bring the car down. Definately point out the other VIN spots. Someone went to a lot of trouble to steal the car, yeah, sure. The btch was probably just jealous of you/your car, or maybe some jerk in a Mustang cut her off that morning.

I would also refuse a new VIN. What, so they'll rip off your windshield, and do this for free, right? Plus, that'll look great on your carfax.com report a few years down the road. Heaven forbid a cop runs your VIN.

Print that carfax.com report out and bring it down there. Or, go get another title, and go somewhere else to inspect it. Did they give anyone your VIN? I'm sure these morons have some kind of record of any stolen car. Damn, I feel all pissed off now for you. Idiots are everywhere, eh?

Better yet- go get it inspected by a dealership.

Hey- can ya go to a laywer? They usually provide a free consultation, to see if they want to take your case. I wonder if you could sue them somehow?

johnsjj2

People like her have no business working in a position that even remotely has anything to do with automobiles. Sometimes its good to have someone inspect your car that knows nothing, then they will find nothing. But not a thing in the world upsets me more than to deal with someone who thinks they know whats up on a car, in reality, they have their heads burried to far up their butt to see the light of day.

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Ooh this just keeps getting better. Today I got my TICKET in the mail. EXHIBITION OF ACCELERATION. For when I pulled out of the inspection place. Written by ... my favorite inspection lady.
Could this be considered harassment? I have a feeling I may be looking for a lawyer tomorrow.

Grim Reaper

Damn, what a SeaHag!

Would a a letter/inspection from a GM Dealership attesting to the authentisity of the car work? I agree, given the number of places the new cars have the VIN# and they all seem to be there, I would have to say that "it's legit".

There's a saying "if it swims like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...it's probably a duck".

Also, if the lady "looks like a bitch, talks like a bitch and acts like a bitch..."

88irocz28

Seriously, dude... all she's doing is trying to be impossible. It's a control issue for her. You know some schmucks can't stand somebody making a few suggestions about their work. They don't wanna be told how to do their job. That ticket for exhibition of acceleration was clearly an act of malice on her part. What a f**king bitch. Take her to court and sue her for all you can. You can't be an American if you don't sue

Blackened

LMAAAOOO ! !! !!

I went out and looked at my VIN plate. It looks exactly like what iroc87 posted. They look like a flower I guess. Although this is on a 92 Camaro.

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

The rivets on my GTA are flower shaped too, they just weren't smashed down quite as much as the VIN plate rivets usually are. Although it is not as distinct on these, if you look closely you can see that they are not normal round rivets, that they are in fact flower shaped. While she was explaining to me how 'the rivets had been removed and replace with normal round rivets', a different state trooper looked at them and said he didn't see a problem with them, and pointed out to her how they were flower shaped. But she refused to listen to him, and insisted that the VIN plate had been tampered with.
Honesly I don't see what I can do about the ticket. Because, yes, I did peel out of the parkinglot. What did she expect? Did she not think I would be pissed? But yes, the ticket was solely out of malice.
They are f***ing me over pretty bad on this deal. I don't see what I can do besides bend over and take it....
I mean, what can I take her to court for? For being rude? Disrespectful? Malicious? Abusing her authority?

Ok, here's a question about the ticket. The place where my "exhibition of acceleration/speed" was sited was in a parkinglot. It even says so on the ticket. Will this go on my record as a moving violation since it was in a parkinglot? I mean, is it gonna affect my insurance?

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Oh yeah, and right now I'm putting the air pump back on the car. Because I have to take the car down to some sargaent in the state capitol (yes, I have to drive it to Topeka) so he can reinspect it, or whatever. I am quite confident that he wont find anything wrong with the car or the rivets. But the way things are going right now, it wouldn't surprise me one bit if this sargaent-guy noticed my lack of smog equipment, and slapped a $5000 fine on top of all this. They seem to be gunning for me.

mcconahay37

iTrader: (3)

Well.... you could always find out where the lady lives and....

Drive by gasolining. If the pavement in the persons driveway is what they all are, then gasoline will break it down to sand and mud. 5 gallon bucket + some cheap watereddown low octane fuel always works. dump it at the top so it runs down the whole thing, better if theres a car parked too.
There are always the valve stems of the vehicle to loosen up. Also, roundup destroys lawns. A thin mist over the entire area will kill the entire lawn of all grass. then the city will come and citation them for improper lawn car (driveway care too) and make them pay to have it re-sodded and / or re-paved. They cant prove who dumped gasoline of the driveway, its quiet, and works overnight. :-)

Matt87GTA

Wow!! The (smog) ***** are alive and well in Kansas I guess!! This is still a free country, right? I mean holy $hite! Do they do sniffer tests and underhood inspections in KS? If so, I agree, getting the A.I.R. pump back on there is a very good idea as it sounds like they would like nothing more than to find something else to nail you with .

I have to agree with all of the people that are saying that this woman needs to prove this claim she has that the car is not what it really is. Did she go to VIN plate graduate school or something? I mean, who exactly IS she to be telling you what the correct VIN rivet looks like? Did she build F-bodies in a prior life? Hmmm.... was the car legally titled in WA? If so, that pretty much ends that - or would that make too much sense? I mean how does she know that Jim-bob (or the robot named Jim-bob) didn't just have a bad day at the plant and screw up the rivets when they put them in? I mean - all of the other VIN locations match up!? And if the VIN comes up as the car being what it actually is in reality - what in THE F is the problem? .....

Better be careful or this woman might tell the 'secret' police that you are a Red and ooohhhhh - boy, are you in trouble then!!

It really sounds like they are just trying to mess with you. Did you do something to pi$$ them off or something?

As for the ticket, I am not sure about KS, but here in MN you can easily get a ticket dropped to a continuance for dismissal where it will stay off your record for a year and if you don't get any more tickets within that year it goes away for good and it is just like you never got it. You do still have to pay the fine though .

And what is this Sergeant (yes, that right there is the correct spelling.... ask me how I know ) talk? Are these cops or something that you are dealing with? Can't you just take it to the Dept of Driver Services or Dept of Motor Vehicles' place?

Well, best of luck on this, I feel for ya Vicious
Laterzzzzz,
Matt

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Nope, no emissions testing here. But I believe that $5000 fine for tampering with emissions stuff is a nation-wide thing. And like I said, they already appear to be gunning for me, I'm not going to give them the chance to slap that fine on me.
Sorry Matt, you know I never can spell Sargeant. Sergeant. Sargaent. Whatever.
And yes boys and girls, I will have my revenge. Keep the suggestions coming.

ops32

I'm not sure about your state, but I had a ticket thrown out (many years ago) in OK because I went to court and the cop didn't show up. Since he wasn't there, they had to drop the charges. Maybe your state has similar laws? I'd bet the b**ch doesn't ever go to court...

Rob

turboscott

maybe the dask was replaced and they switched the vin plate then. the car doesn't have to be totaled to have the dash replaced. my friend is constantly doing things with his dash.

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Yeah, I thought of that too, at first. There is a problem with the digital dash, and I thought that maybe the part behind it had been replaced in an attempt to fix it. Like, the part where the digital dash plugs into. But I'm not sure if that is part of the same piece that the VIN plate is bolted to.
Besides, the rivets are the correct ones. They were just not smashed down quite enough.
Kinda like Matt said:

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

How does an inspection station issue traffic violations?

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Ooh, she had the state trooper that was there at the station write it for her. She already had all my info (name, address, SSN, year, make and model of car, etc) that she had taken off the title and my driver's license. Then they sent the ticket off to me in the mail.

johnsjj2

I would ask if the cop saw you do it or not. Just b/c someone said you did it, doesn't mean you did. I am not one to help people get off scott free, but that lady has no right acting as she has. If you could get off the ticket on a technicality, by all means do it, otherwise I would be head hunting for awhile. Do you have her name, or address of the place she worked? I would love to send a nice letter to her boss. No really it would be a nice one. No point in getting in trouble for something I didn't even do.

Rob P

iTrader: (1)

Yep, take that ticket to court. You have a right to face your accusers!
Water balloons filled with a grass killer works wonders on front yards when tossed from a moving car at night

TomP

Exactly what I was thinking. Get a laywer for all this. He'll be smoother than you could be, and probably take care of the whole mess. I got a lawyer for a speeding ticket I got a few years ago- I wouldn't have, but the cop was such a ***** to me! I was so mad... I mean, yeah, if I speed & get a ticket, fine, but there's no need to give me attitude- especially for only 12 over the limit!

I bought "beat the cops" by Alex Carrol (good book, $12.95 from bn.com), and a few others- and then decided that I better get a laywer. He couldn't wipe my ticket off, but he did reduce it in 1/2.

Oh, and as for the "parking lot" thing- it's still state property...

blue91rs

You know, this lady is great. She really is a state worker. Do you know why she's doing this?
To justify her job. She wants to prove to her boss that she actually does something.:lala:

or some guy in a car just like yours dumped a load in her and ran away.

Exhabition of speed is a bull**** ticket. First of all, the state trooper would have to see you do it in order to write you a ticket, and even then, how is he sure you're the one who was driving the car? Did he see you in the shop, look at your drivers liscense, and actually make a positive id to your identity?

You have to assume that since the Trooper wrote you the ticket, he will say that he saw you perform "exhabition of speed". the thing that's tricky is what Kentucy's definition of "exhabition of speed." In NY, its peeling out. Did you peel out? Why did you peel out? was there a sppeding vehicle coming up and you wanted to get out of the way of, so you accelerated a little bit extra? Or was there dirt and debris on the road that caused you to loose traction?

There are sooo many ways of getting out of this ticket it hurts. Also, I'm pretty sure you can't be issued a ticket (at least in NY,) for a simple violation, if it was not confirmed, by a Police officer, that in fact you were the person driving, (liscence check, and on spot issueance of the said violation.)

what does this mean?

1. did the cop see you exhibit speed? what did you do exactly?

BOTTLEDZ28

iTrader: (9)

burn her house down and then burn the shop down. when she goes to get her mail,drive by with a super soaker filled with bleach. toot your horn and as she turns spray her in the face. dont use your car and wear a mask

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Supersoaker filled with bleach?? Your definately one of my neighbors..

-- Joe

Ukraine Train

I think the old hag was just jealous cuz vicious is so much better looking than her and had a fast car to boot

azvolfan

In most states they are not allowed to issue a ticket unless you have been clocked by radar. I don't know if this is so in Kansas. Also, the trooper who issued the ticket will have to appear in court and tell a judge that he issued the ticket on hear say. And he was not witness to the action. You could also argue that the woman is not trained to define speed as a trooper would be. And that would be the trooper who did not see the act.

scoob8000

my rheovets are perfectally round too.. the old lady is a crackhead.. go somewhere else.. mebbee find a gm technician to go with you and take pictures of others tags with the same rivets as yours.. worst case, call a lawyer...

sleeper

ok... I've been watching this thread for a while now so I'll finally give my $.02.

Why are you under the burden of proof? She needs to establish that the car has indeed been wrecked and had the VIN switched before you can be denied a plate. Innocent until proven guilty right? Or is this just another day in the land of the free?

Forget about this old hag, she is obviously abusing her power and will do absolutely nothing to help you... quite the opposite as you've found. Go to another DMV office (wearing your sunday best), ask for a supervisor, POLITELY and without calling the old hag an old hag, tell him your story (leave out the part about the ticket). Then ask him what you need to do to get the car registered. He will probably look at the car, realise that there is nothing wrong with it, and want to pass it. Problem is that he can't just bitch slap the old hag so he will make you go through some bs like taking the car to the Sheriff for inspection, getting it certified by a mechanic, etc...

At this point you're screwed. Either suck up the conditions that the DMV sets, suck up the $5000 you paid for the car, or suck up the $5000 you'll pay for a lawyer... your choice.

five7kid

iTrader: (14)

Guess you people can't read. The ticket was issued by the inspection station official. "Exhibition of speed" means she peeled out. No measurement of velocity is required for that. Doesn't have to be witnessed by a trooper or policeman, either.

Revenge is stupid and accomplishes nothing. Could get you in jail, if you try some of the suggestions above. Having been the victim of vandalism, I cannot indorse it in any fashion (even if you think this sea hag deserves it - I hadn't done anything to anybody to warrant having the mirrors broken off my motorcycle).

Show some class and deal with this in a mature manner. Gather the evidence that the VIN has not been tampered with (and it is overwhelming that it has not), and take your case to the "final authority" in Topeka - you're bound to win. Don't worry too much about the emissions equipment - you just bought the car, right? So, you haven't had a chance to put it back together the way it's supposed to be (doubt it would even be noticed, frankly).

Make your court appearance for the ticket. If she shows, keep your cool and whatever you do, don't be arrogant. The judge very well may drop it, or reduce it to a non-moving violation (I have seen that happen). You could even talk to the District Attorney beforehand, explain what happened, and ask if they would consider dropping it at your expense (meaning you'd pay the court costs and perhaps the equivalent of the fine, but it wouldn't go on your record - I've seen that happen, too). You had a temporary lapse of judgement, you're basically a good citizen trying to do what's right, and you've learned your lesson here.

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

Ok, I'm still waiting to hear from the sargeant. And today is day 26 that I have owned the car. I've got 30 days to get the title cleared up and the car tagged. They've only been giving me the runaround for over 3 weeks now.
What did I do to **** her off? I've got a pretty good guess. Basically, I'm a student at the university here in town. Big college, small town, and a lot of the locals don't like the college kiddies at all. She seemed that type because she asked me if I went to KU, and kinda sneered when I said 'yes'.
Yeah yeah, I probably won't do anything. But right now entertaining the idea of revenge is helping me keep my sanity.
I'll let you guys know what happens if this ever gets resolved.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

I read the post fine, It scares me that in Hillbilly areas like Kansas, Colorado "inspection officials" can issue traffic violations..

Here in the civilized world we leave that up to trained law enforcement professionals.

So is the judge down there also like the town butcher? hah

-- Joe

ViciousZ

iTrader: (1)

My hillbilly 'small' college town of Lawrence, KS is actually bigger than your lil town of Lawrence, MA. According to the atlas sitting here on my desk, we've got 71887 people, and you've got 68807. Who's hillbilly now?
And it was the state trooper that issued the ticket, much to my dismay.

Dumperbird

Well between my best friend and myself we've had quite the managire of tickets, citiations, and written warnings. I don't quite know about Ks law but I'll bet that you won't have any problems with insurance over an Exabhition ticket but just to be on the safe side take it to court and talk to the cop. Usually if you (not so much kiss their @ss) but schmooze them they'll usually hook u up. You woun't get off but it could save you form headaches later. As for the inspestion... I gotta love PA! Independant inspection stations. You friend just was about to put that "emmissions exempt sticker on that caddie, that your neighbor's 97 yr old grandmother only takes out of the garage to look for her cat,(Emmisions Exemptions to cars that drive under 5k m a year) slips on a oil slick and well some how it just ended up on your windsheild. Too much work to remove it.. oh well maybe next year they will catch those things (Comes in handy when that pesky Cat just decides to dump out and well you have on of those uncapped exhausts headders and the a.i.r. hoses all cracked and you just couldn't affored to replace them all at once) I think you should sue.. You are after all going to have some bills to pay after you graduate. Why not get someone you don't like to pay for that "5th"year of co-ed extra curricular activites a.k.a livin large for FREE. That way you can take some time and just enjoy you new car.

Jza

Bam! Hit with the book! Didn't see that coming, did you, anesthes? :sillylol:

Does the ticket mention the sea-hag anywhere? If the trooper didn't witness the incident, but he's the issuer of the ticket, then he needs a justifiable witness to back up the ticket. If you take it to court and she doesn't get subpoenaed (that doesn't look right, but I spell-checked it..lol), obviously, she won't show and it should get thrown out for having no witnesses. Of course, what you really need to do is look up the statute number written on the ticket and find out exactly what constitutes that offense and whether or not what you did fulfills that. If you can say, yeah, that's what I did... don't bother taking it to court.

Jza

See if there's a layer of gravel where the parking lot lets out into traffic (and there usually is). You might be able to BS your way out.

CraZ-28

Actually, the state trooper needs to have you on radar for Exhabition of Speed. This is because they need to prove you were speeding and need to have the "EXACT SPEED". Now if the ticket was for Exhabition of Acceleration, you would not need to be on radar. This is obvious, you were not speeding, just accelerating very quickly.

The only reason I know is becuase we went through this a couple of years ago and we went to court and was there for 5 minutes. The judge noticed that there was not a measurement of speed for an Exhabition of Speed ticket and it was thrown out right there. The officer didn't even get a chance to speak! Just my 0.02.

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

haha.

Wanna see some numbers?

Kansas is 81,815 square miles and houses 7,840 people.

Massachusetts is 7,800 square miles and houses 6,349 people.


Year 2000 US Census results 72,043 people in Lawrence, Ma.

Interestingly enough, it appears roughly 25,000 of Lawrence, KS
population is from KU.

Your state website has wheat and flowers on the header!

-- Joe

Vader

Dude,

She's in Lawrence, not Mayberry. The accent may be different than on the upper right coast, but it isn't that rural. We won't even go near the square mile thoughts.

I got a chuckle from your comments, but let's not get too personal. Just some friendly jabbing is just fine though. Keep it friendly, or I'll have to use "The Force"....

BTW - I think the judge's first name is "Goober", or maybe that was the inspector's nickname... (just having a little fun, Z)

anesthes

iTrader: (12)

Oh c'mon, a little fire once and a while is necesary.

In any event, i'm pretty sure if its the same person I've seen pix of her stuff, so its nothing personal.

I just find it kinda funny about the whole ticket thing.


-- Joe

Vader

Sure. We GOTTA have a little fun. Just as long everyone understands it's just a little good-natured ribbing, it isn't a problem. When it gets too personal or insulting without any obvious humor, we've reached the limit. I was just reminding everyone to keep it light and not get too heavy with the jabs.

We're all cool...that's why I jumped in and added the "Goober" thing. You'd probably get a chuckle out of where I live, too. Even though there are 250,000 people in the metro area, it can be pretty backward. Probably half of those are what you may refer to as "hillbillies".

And before we get too far into the mud, we all understand there is a difference between southerners and "hillbillies" - just like there are women and there are "beatches", Russians and "commies", Poles and "pollacks", Africans and "that other thing that isn't politically correct to say (unless you're an African)", etc. I think you get the difference.

So, before it get's totally non-technical, what's the deal with the inspection, anyway? Any progress?

Guest

I know the laws vary from state to state, but here the officer would have to witness the 'exhibition of speed' to write you a ticket for it. It also needs an estimated speed, otherwise it has to be written as reckless driving, which IMO is what you should have been written for anyway.

Since it doesnt sound like the officer witnessed it (or heard it?) then its her word against yours. In my state, a ticket can be issued by an officer based on an individual's account, but the burden of proof falls on the person who saw it, not the cop. This makes it much easier to beat the ticket since you are not up against an 'expert' witness, but rather just some citizen who doesnt know better. I ran into this situation before, some guy who cut me off (I blew the horn at him just as he was making his move to let him know I was in that spot) got pissed when I changed lanes and passed him. He came up with some BS story, called the cops, and they came to my house to harass me. I basically told them off, either write me a ticket or go away and stop yelling at me, or I'd call the station and let them know how I was being treated. The guy drove by the house twice (which I called in about) and then stopped once but didnt get out. So I called the cops on him and went to his house and heard his BS story. Needless to say, the minute he found out it was his word against mine and that I could sue him for damages if he lost the case, the whole deal was dropped immediately. I think with a little pushing that ticket you got is going to venture into the round file.