ok i am confused here, what is faster 3d gens or the older mustangs. i know it all depends on the mods and what not but stock for stock what is faster?

 

A 350 TPI and a 5.0 will be a drivers race. So I hear....

 

Depends on what year, because they were in close contention for so so long till the 93 then LT1, and you know the rest(99+ are not half bad, Cobra is just madness.) Given a '90 350 Iroc vs a '90 5spd 5.0. stock for stock 1/4 mile I think, I stress think, would go to the Iroc(the 5spd might nudge it out), top end the Iroc would go to 149-151, just a little faster and the Camaro had better handling I think. But when it came down to it the 5.0's had a much better 5 Liter engine than the Camaros did, they are easy as hell to mod and have such strong internals it is incredible. I think that it really came down to the drivers preference, I personally perfer the Iroc, but would take a 5.0 if the price was right.

 

Like BigErns said, its hard to give a flat out "this one is faster" because so many powertrain options were available in the 10 year run. For the majority of cars over the majority of those years, the mustangs were faster in a straight line and the f-body had the superior chassis/handling.

Another thing to think about though, is look at how many F-bodies in those years actually had the better powertrain that was offered. All mustangs have the 5.0 H.O (unless its a 4 cyl, kinda an all or nothing approach huh?), but unfortunately, I'd say maybe 1/5 of the 3G cars actually have a H.O. motor, the rest being V6 or low output 305. I looked at production numbers a while back, don't feel like doin the research right now but its in the archives.

Though I do drive a mustang now, in the pre 92 years, I'd definately take a Z/TA over a fox mustang. I mean, they're fast, and cool looking, but something about how you sit in the car and the general feel of it just never seemed right to me, I don't know why. I like my SN95 though, but my next car will be a 4th Gen. I still feel more at home with the F-cars.

 

a thirdgen 5.0 5 speed would lose to a 5.7 auto only by alittle.
however the mustang 5.0 5 speed would keep up with the 5.7 auto..

i have beaten 5.0 mustangs before.

 

5 spd 5.0 Stangs could hit mid 14s, same with a 5.7 Camaro.

An auto Stang 5.0 would lose to the 5.7 though.

LG4 or L03s would lose to an auto Stang.....

 

From what I understand, the only 5.0's that could beat a 5.7 were the LX5.0's. Even then it was a drivers race though.

 

Like has been said a bunch of times, the 5.0 5-speed (a huge number os Mustangs came like this) would be a good race with an L98. The thing is once you mod all bets are off!

I would prefer the Mustang only for the fact that a couple of hundred dollers, and you can see 13s with no problem, and there is a wide range of cars to choose from. Other than that if I wanted handeling it would be Fbody all the way!

 

I've beaten a few 5.7L IROC's and Formula/GTA's back when I was still mostly stock.

You can argue all day but I think that 5.0 vs 5.7L can go either way depending on TONS of variables.

If I never bought a Mustang, it would have been a 5.7 IROC. They look mean as hell. 5.0's just look normal with the aero headlight style. That's why I love the 85-86 4-eye Mustang nose!

 

You can't make up the difference of 250lbs between the IROC and GT, but what about factory headers and dual exhaust? Or a 5 speed against 5 speed.....since everyone know an automatic is inefficient at transferring horsepower to the back wheels.

I would be curious to see what happens if the match is a little more evened.

Pretend I have a 1989 5.0L LB9 IROC (w/G92 gearing) (230HP/300 ft/lb --base #'s--).
• I have the 5 speed tranny
• I have installed headers (GT's had factory headers)
• I have installed dual exhaust (GT's had factory duals)
• I have reduced my cars weight to that of the GT's weight

The grand question is: Do you think, that NOW the 5.0L IROC-Z is capable of a better 1/4 time than the GT's??

 

The term "factory headers" is used pretty loosely. Those things are very restrictive and shouldn't be considered "headers" by anyone's standards IMO. To make it fair, you'd have to pinch your "headers" off to where your motor could barely breathe and be sure to use a very restrictive 2 1/4" exhaust system the rest of the way back as well. I picked up 3 mph when I switched to a 2 1/2" cat back.

In my opinion, it's basically going to come down to which car has been maintained better and whether or not the guy in the 5 speed car can drive. My girlfriend's '88 GT will probably still be bone stock by the time march rolls around so I'll take it out to the track and get you some real life numbers from someone who knows how to drive.

 

Than you. By saying factory headers, you make it sound as thought they are good! The factory headers are very restrctive, as well as the 4 catelitic converters!

If you want to make it fare, compare that car verse a 5.0 coupe! Then I would say the 5.0 wins hands down! It is a drivers race, and you have to take into the fact that F-bodies are hevier, because as we all know, that is life!

 

Ok...I don't know a whole lot about 'Stangs- thats why we have you guys here
Let me pull this information together, & tell me if I'm correct:

• Factory Headers were less restrictive than 'manifolds', but more restrictive than aftermarket headers.

• The 5.0 Coupe (5 speed) was the fastest 5.0 'Stang and NOT the GT. Was the '5.0 Coupe' the '5.0 LX' in other words? (or do you refer to hard-top only 5.0 GT's?)

1987 June Car & Driver
'87 IROC-Z TPI 305 (5 Speed) (215HP - 295 lb/ft) --15.2 @ 90--
'87 Mustang GT 302 FI (5 Speed) (225HP - 300 lb/ft) --14.7 @ 94--

This is pretty close...yes a .5 second difference, but among a majority of real world drivers, these two cars will run close.
Now you probably see why, I said:
The IROC-Z 5.0 TPI (5 Speed)
• w/ Headers
• w/ Dual Exhaust
• & 250 LBs of weight reduction
would give the Mustang GT's very good competion- even though GM's 5.0L isn't designed as well as Ford's 5.0L.....

I do not know the flow #'s of Mustang Factory headers or dual exhaust....but I think with these equal parts installed & the reduced weight, the 305 TPI IROC-Z would edge out the 5.0 Mustang's.

Anyone see where I'm coming from...Why did Chevy never use headers or dual exhaust (since they were locked in a 'Pony' war in the 80's)?? Wouldn't this have been to their advatage [Chevy]?

'87 IROC-Z - Base # - ___15.2

- 250 lbs=______________.2

+ Headers=_____________.2

+ Dual Exh=_____________.2
-------------------------------------------------------
'87 IROC-Z____________14.6 1/4 mile times

 

So basically you want to add aftermarket parts to make the comparison "fair"! Why not just say stock (how each company sent them, with the weight, and the exhaust and all). And with this the case, the 5.7, and the 5.0 were a very close race!

 

No, I would like to take aftermarket parts that flowed IDENTICLE as Ford's (Headers & Exhaust system) & place them on the '89 305 TPI with 5 speed manual (230HP - 300TQ).
Doing the comparison with a Ford 302 vs TPI 305 is more accurate than the TPI 350 vs Ford 302- simply because of displacement difference.

The TPI 5.7L has 45 cubic inches more than the TPI 5.0L. Yet the 5.7 usually produced no more than 20 HP more than the 5.0L in all years offered.
The 20 HP is attributed to the 45 more cubic inches & this is the ONLY reason is could hang with the Ford 5.0 instead of the 305. This 20 HP extra, offset the 250lb weight difference between the IROC-Z and Mustang. Therefore, they both ran the same. Keep in mine the TPI 5.7 IROC had an automatic only. Put a 5 speed behind it, and I don't thing the Mustang could keep up.


I guess, what I'm saying is: It shouldn't have taken a TPI 5.7 to hang with a 5.0L 'Stang. --The TPI 5.0 had the capability the entire time....
+++providing the TPI 305 would have the same 'factory mods' as the Mustang (Factory Headers, Factory 2x exhaust, & weight reduction of 250Lbs).....

In conclusion: The TPI 305 isn't inferior to the Ford 5.0L in terms of power...STOCK THAT IS.
When you start building a motor up, is where the difference lies. The Ford 5.0L is a better building platform then the Chevy 5.0L would be....

 

So if we make everything even the 305 TPI is just as fast! That is probably true, but facts are facts, and he asked which one is faster, not which one is faster with all being equal! I am not trying to sound like a pri*k, but the truth is the truth!

If the 350 had a 5-speed it could have very well beat the Mustang, but again these are all if's, I am pointing out the truth!

 

Stock, hell even a lightly modded 5.0 couldn't even come close to my 3rd gen. Late 80's early 90's sure was a fun time for thumping fords.

 

True, but than again as we speak of rare F-bodies, yours has to be one of the rarest!!! One of the best but one of the rarest!

 

I know what he asked & understand your not trying to be a *****- you did give him the truth too....

I was adding something to think about though...

The TPI 305 get's bad mouthed when compared to the Mustang 5.0...I just don't think the 305 deserves all of it.
The Mustang GT was just included with some minor advantages over the IROC-Z, like dual exhaust and headers (we can't really count the weight advantage). Do you know of anything else? What about OHC, or was that just GT-40 heads?
I recognized, that if Chevy included headers and dual exhaust on the 5.0 IROC-Z (TPI - 5 Speed), that it would hold it's own against the Mustang GT (5 Speed) during those years the IROC-Z was slower.
I don't understand why Chevy never included these!? Emissions!? Maybe it's anyone's guess.

 

Actually the stock 1987-1993 LX and GT 5.0s got Fords E7 heads, which were not OHC. The OHC motor was introduced in 1996. The GT-40 heads you are thinking of only came on the 1993-1995 Cobra and were not OHC either. GT-40 heads on a regular 5.0 with other bolt-ons can go as quick as mid 12s, but since we are talking factory here, that does not apply.

The only real difference would be the dual exhaust (obviousely pretty restrictive with 4 cats, and 2.25") and the factory headers (again horribly restrictive). Other than that and the fact that the Mustang is more set-up for straight line performance, the comparison is pretty even! IMO.

 

Hmm...ok, I thought GT's had gotten OHC, but I wasn't sure. And I thought those heads were called the GT-40's- that's why I asked.

Yes you do have 2.25" exhaust, but that's TWO 2.25" pipes. IROC-Z 5.0 had ONE 2.5" pipe for BOTH heads to share.
As for 2 CATS per pipe, what is the reason? I think Mustangs to this day still have 4 CATS, right?
Wouldn't Mustang factory headers be less restrictive than manifolds?
Less restriction the better. To use a factory header on an IROC-Z would still be a bonus, since it uses manifolds from the factory.

 

How come the Chevy 5.0s were never as potent as the Ford 5.0s? I would say it is a driver's race between the 5-speed 5.0 Stang and an auto 5.7L. What about if the Stang had a 351C?

 

I think a better choice would be the 351 Windsor, which is an almost direct bolt in on a Mustang. They haven't made the cleaveland since the mid 70's. The 93-95 lightning's used windsor motors that put out 240 hp @ 4200 and 340 ft lbs @ 3200 with a truck cam. Had it gone in the mustang with a cam designed for a car instead of a truck, I think you could have expected an additional 20 - 30 hp with peak hp coming in around 4800. That would have obviously been a vast improvement over the 225 hp motor in the Mustang.

 

The "factory headers" are on the 97 LT4 SS also, they are basically a stainless steel version of the iron blocks that are on there stock, but have slightly longer primaries.
-Mark

 

I hate to go off topic again, but did Panteras come with the 351C or the 351W?

 

I wonder how many times this has topic has been discussed, and still no real answer.

Mustang vs Fbody

When we are comparing stock cars, we need to compare bone stock to bone stock.

In this case it depends on the year. I'd say up until '86 Ford had the definete edge. After the L98 was brought into the fbody option list in '87 it was pretty much an even drag race, stock for stock (L98 car vs 5.0 5 speed). For drag racing, an auto will give you the edge over the 5 speed. The only reason the mustang autos are so slow is their terrible trans (AOD).

Through the late 80's-92 things were pretty even, with both companies producing faster cars than in prior years.

Now if we want to do a real world comparison, you have to figure in some mods. IMO Ford wins here hands down. Add a set of gears, exhaust, and some sticky meats and you shound have your 5.0 5 speed running solid 13's. Fbodies are a little bit harder to get to the same point as the stangs. Sorry guys.

One thing for sure...
Fbodies have WAY better handling. A LB9 5 speed with WS6 suspension will eat up a mustang all day on a road coarse.


-Doug

 

I am not going to deny this! The Mustang were set-up much better for straight line performance, and the Fbodies were set up much better for road course performance. That is why I would chose an Fbody for going around and a Mustang for going straight!

 

As far as I know...The pantera was equipped with the 351C....could be wrong thou..

 

"I like my SN95 though, but my next car will be a 4th Gen."

Dave, correct me if I'm wrong, not a big mustang expert, but I though the 95's had a 5.0 in it. And I thought yours was a 97. Am I missing something?

 

Fact for fact......the 305 TPI loses to the 5.0 Ford stock

Modded it would lose even worse.

 

94-04 are SN95

 

Oh, I thought that was some kind of a 1995 model Mustang!!

 

Why do you say it would lose worse, when modded?

 

Its alot lighter and it reacts better to bolt on mods... Do the math

 

Ok, never-mind, your talking about aftermarket mods...correct? Yes, the Ford 5.0 responds better to mods, than what the Chevy 305 does.....
I thought/assumed you were talking about the factory "mods" I proposed should have been done with the TPI 305 earlier in this thread. I just misinterpreted.

BTW...I noticed 'Monkie' used to have that same avatar.....hmmm- LoL:lala:

 

You and 'Monkie' have identicle watches worn on the same arm. Even your hands look alike...you sure you wasn't 'Monkie'?

 

The response to mods is one of the reasons why I like the Ford 5.0, besides that lovely tone.



ROC-Z,


Be carefull what you attatch or post because you may get put on probation. The moderators have really been cracking down.

 

I pray to *** that I never have to see that goofy *** mug again. If that picture is good enough to post on the net, I'd hate to see the real thing

 

Dare I respond to this post again...

I do. I completely agree with monkie on this one (for once). In a straight line a fox body stang with the 5.0 and 5 speed will take a 305tpi 5 speed in a drag race. The engine was definetly not designed with performance in mind. It is almost impossible to find a good flowing set of heads, which make it near impossible to effectively mod it.

But why compare Fords fastest car of the year, to GM's low end fbody. To be fair we should compare it to the 350tpi. (or vette )

-Doug

 

Post up your pics buddy! Lets see how big of a stud you are. I mean hell if you have to hit on little girls on the internet you MUST be all that huh?

Oh and Nic that pic was taken 3 years ago. I have a recent pic of me in boxers if anyone is interested. :sillylol:

 

Actually they aren't the same watches. The one with me holding the baby was given to me by my bitch of a girlfriend about 4 years ago. I liked the watch alot so I wore it all the time. Then when I started dating my current g/f's sister about 2 years ago she got tired of seeing me wear some other girl's watch so she bought me the blue one. Its pretty funny but thats the story behind the watches. And yes I'm monkie

 

My friend's LX coupe with 3.73s runs a 14.3 and the only 350 IROC I have ever raced at the track was running a whopping 15.4 So who knows, obv the driver of the IROC was a moron because he was running me with his friend in the passengers seat.

 

Monkie,
As with any car, a L98 car is poor tune will run poorly. My '85 ran a 15.0 @ 91.5 mph (305tpi not 350tpi) in bone stock form, with a hurtin tranny.

A stock L98 car in good tune will run 14.3-14.7 depending on year/weight.

-Doug

 

huh?? lol

 

Wow, the complaining never ends!

And I agree that we should compare the 350 to the 5.0, no problem, and there you have a great race. I have also only seen one near stock (he had a cat-back) L98 run and he went 14.8! So they are pretty even. For comparison my dads car went 14.7 bone stock, which in my book is a drivers race on the street.

So now back to the topic at hand neither one is much better until you mod, and then I feel the 5.0 is better! IMO.

 

I respect your opinion but disagree at the same time. I'm the guy that just never figured out why people think the 5.0 is so cheap to mod. Look at it this way, Jegs, Summit, PAW, all those magazines are full of SBC parts. To say that the Mustang has an advantage it's not in cost, it's in weight! Those things are light so any mods you do will net better results, not to mention the 5 speed advantage. Given an L98 auto, say a 91 z28. You sell your TPI and go with a carb, vortec heads, and a 268xe cam with a healthy intake and carb will net you gains upwards of ~340hp. It's all fair to say that the Stang's EFI reputation is much better BUT those damn intakes are expensive. Just like TPI!!! Given 45 more cubes you'de expect to make more hp to offset the ~250lb weight difference. Oh yeah, and 3.73 gears and a $99 torsen posi unit isn't expensive. Find me a good posi for a stang that sells new/take-off for under $100, then show me the price of their gears and bang for buck you'll see that a SBC is better.
My friend has an LX 5 speed and he went from using stock headers and a comp cams poly intake to SVT shorty headers, 2.5" flowmaster duals exit before axle, back to stock intake, and he's getting 95 mph trap speeds. His clutch is crap so it's costing him a couple tenths but I still don't see this as great considering the cost of his car was upwards of $8800. Very clean but still it's the same boat. How fast do you want so spend. Again, I'll say this so it doesn't get overlooked; Ford makes better factory products for thier pony cars, chevy dropped the line so my beef is mostly with GM. Given a chance I wouldn't take a 5.0 over a 5.7 not because of platform but because it's cheaper to make faster. Yes, cheaper!

 

Ah, I see...Those watches must be pretty similar then. The pic of you and the baby hasn't the best detail, but the watch in it looks identicle to the one in the other pic below it. I just remember the thread where you denied being 'Monkie' & didn't know who 'Monkie' is...so I thought I'd find out But anyhow- nice watch.

 

Actually my Cobra intake, and throttle body cost all of $250 brand new, the gears were $150, and exhaust was under $1000. I live with a guy who has under $8000 spent, $6500 worth into the car and he runs low 13s all day! He didn't need an intake or heads or cam, but minor bolt-ons, like exhaust, pulleys and gears to go this fast! I run with guys who have $4000-$5000 spent running mid to low 12s! The fact is a 5.0 could just as easily go carb, but not many people are willing to drop on a carb! As far as EFI goes there is not much easier and cheaper way to go fast than the late model Mustang eftermarket! As far as older cars and engines, the 350 is king, but with modern EFI systems allowing for street driven 9-10 second cars the Mustangs are the hot ticket! This is my opinion but is also the reason why the Mustang is still going strong and the Fbody is not! Just my opinion!

 

As a personal preference, I think it is a toss up between a Ford 5.0 and the Chevy 350. Both have advantages and disadvantes. I like them both.

 

heres a stock 3rd gen that will take a mustang on the straightaway