i bought my 2000 z28 for $13,700 with only 19,000 miles on her. the ls1 is definitely underrated, my friend has a 97 lt1 ss rated at 305 hp and my ls1 rated at 305 hp with minimal mods will spank him bad!

 

Ya theres just no way the LT1 is only 25HP less than the LS1, major underated there. LS1 with a couple of bolt-ons can be right there with the "mighty" Z06 that GM druels over so much, and throws us f-bodies to the side.

 

Just G-Teched the LS1 tonight. Traction is a MAJOR issue, but spinning the tires through first and partially through 2nd, got a best of 13.39 @ 116.3 MPH (mods in sig. and stock tires).

With the IROC, this G-Tech has been found to be dead on w/ the ET and about 4-5 MPH higher than Milan dragway. Also, I got better times with the IROC at the strip than G-Teching on the street b/c traction is WAY better at the strip.

 

get some drag radials and you'll be set

 

im not positive rx7, but GM has always been notorious for under-rating the output of performance cars, it was prevalent in the 60's and is again today really. where as ford is known for over-rating their output, remember the cobra fiasco from a few years ago?

 

how about C5 vs F-body?

 

Not a whole lot of performance difference between the current C5 and LS1 Fbodies. The are all putting down around 300 rwhp (hotrod dynoed a 97 C5 and a 98 TA same day, same dyno, and the TA actuall put down about 6 more rwhp...) so the Fbody's power rating is definitely complete BS. That is a 345+hp motor for any year, in either platform. The Vette has a slight edge in the 1/4 due to lighter weight and usually better traction. But then again some of the auto Vettes have pretty poor rear gears... You should visit LS1.com, some of the numbers people are putting down with the newest LS1s is scary. 310-320 rwhp bone dead stock is not that uncommon. That is like 360+ hp stock!! And that's not a peaky, hard to drive right motor either. That bitch makes great power all over the rpm range. Really just phenominal...

The LT1's average dyno seems to be no more than 260hp for a 6spd, often less. So figure on the LS1 making an honest 40-50+ rwhp over the LT1. That is a freakin huge real world difference... And it shows, my best friend had a 98Z for awhile (and a 01 C5 later) and we crushed a whole heck of alot of cars rated at similar hp numbers.

GM really should have rated the LS1 accurately and advertised it. You think a 345+ hp rating wouldn't have helped sales? How many people do you see that think they really only make 305hp? I've seen alot, that has to impact opinions one way or another... Ford hasn't had a car competitive to the LS1 prior to this newest 03 Cobra and most people weren't aware of it...

 

the ls1 in the 97-98 vettes sucked and had serious oil control problems due to ring flutter at high rpm. If you dyno a 2003 vette and a 2002 f-body your gonna see a decent difference in power at the rear wheels. theres alot more than weight and traction to account for between a vette and an f-body.

the vette is a world class sports car with a world class sports car chassis. the corvette also has a less restrictive intake and much less restrictive exhaust than the f-body's do.....its really not a good comparison.

 

Thats the biggest bit of misinformation i have ever heard! Most f body ls1's actually dyno at more rwhp than the ls1 corvettes. The corvette has an independant rear suspsnsion where as the camaros have a solid rear axle that transfers power to the ground better which is some of the reason for more power in the f bodys. Where the corvette makes it up is in weight difference, but there have been a number of stock f bodys beating stock corvettes. Maybe you should research your information more before you start throwing around wrong information.

 

:hail: LS1 :hail:

 

you are really a pain in the ***, and your arrogant to boot. Try using some knowledge to draw conclusions instead of making ignorant uninformed statements

almost NO ONE dynos stock camaro's or stock corvettes. The STOCK dyno numbers put down by the STOCK cars the corvette will always make more horsepower, for obvious mechanical reasons and for several corporate ones,

GM doesnt normally allow any of their so called lesser cars (lesser in comparison to the corvette) to produce more power....this is only excepted in limited production run specialty vehicles and in the case of the buick grand national, which caused a bit of internal strife within the GM organization due to its rated and actual output, which murdered the c4's of the time.

the IRS Rear in the c5 is paired with a custom designed and application specific zf 6 speed which you will probably find is more efficient than the 6 speed found in the m6 f-bodys and far more efficient than either the automatic from f-body's or vettes. There will be much more parity between auto versions of both cars, due to the percentage loss of power through the automatic, which isnt a static loss but varies with torque output due to converter slippage as well as the fluid drag on the converter and the transmission internals. Power is also consumed by the pump.

therefore you will find a greater difference between the f-body and c5 among members of the platforms equipped with a manual transmission.

the most obvious disadvantage is the halfshafts that are attached to the IRS....more u-joints equals more percentage loss through the driveline. However, with some excellent engineering at GM powertrain and the more efficient transmission, this more than compensates for the IRS giving the c5 less of a loss through the driveline on the whole than the f-body.

Therefore, with higher output (more HP) at the crankshaft, the c5 will put more to the ground and make better use of it (lighter car, better suspension, lower center of gravity) than the f-body will.

 

murdered?!? come on, it wasnt THAT bad. my 100% bone stock 89' Corvette ran 13.9 at 99mph with a 2.0 60ft. thats right on par with a well driven intercooled GN. theres almost no difference in power between the 87' Vettes and my year, so id say its a valid comparison. now a TTA, on the other hand, would have blown my doors off

 

you have a good point, but the GN was also WAAAAYYYYYY heavier than the vette....no one needs to be reminded how great those cars were,

the 3.8l SFI turbo motors in the GN had alot more potential than the tpi's did at the time as well, and it was pretty cheap to make one go fast.

what im getting at with this is that GM gets really touchy when other cars get close in power output to the vettes, nevermind when they run close to the same times.....it just makes the vette lose a little of its lustre.....thats why you hear the "detuned" word alot....they went out of their way in almost every case to make sure the vette was the top performer in the lineup. especially in the case of the camaro because both cars were under the same division so there is alot more control there.

unfortunately this didnt usually mean cranking up output in the vette, it usually meant turning power down a notch everyplace else

but like i said tpivette89, you have a good point....i should have been more clear about what i meant by murdered.....imagine if they put that GN 'plant in the vette? ooooh man

 

Wrong, been shown so many times you obviously are fooled by the official advertised power ratings, which as we have touched on are complete crap.

383backinblack, why don't you visit LS1.com and corvetteforum.com where a whole crap load of people DO indeed dyno their cars bone dead stock before you come in here telling people what power these cars make. As if that weren't enough, as I said Hotrod has done a couple direct comparison dynos as well between the LS1 Vette and Fbodies, virtually identical. The fact of the matter is the Fbody and Corvettes are putting down damn near identical RWHP numbers, IE they are making nearly identical crank hp numbers as well.

Taking 2 minutes to search, here is post about a guys stock 99 C5 M6 Vette http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=489109 295 rwhp/304 ft-lbs.

At LS1.com this post http://www.ls1.com/forums/showthread...ght=stock+dyno has numerous guys posting their dynos. Average seems to also be right at 300 rwhp. Keep in mind some later Fbodies could be optioned with a Lid and different exhaust and such that really gets the numbers on up (you'll see some 320ish rwhp dynos there too...)

That's the whole point, the C5 stock does NOT put out higher output than the stock Fbody LS1s. However, the last part is indeed why the Vette manages it's slightly better 1/4 mile numbers, it uses the power on hand slightly better... And in every other way other than power the Vette is indeed in a complete other class. Like I said my best friend had a 98Z and then a 01 Vette. The Vette is definitely far and away a sweeter car, no arguments there despite the virtually identical power the cars put out...

 

thank you, finally someone who actually knows that they're talking about!

 

thats why i mentioned the TTA in my post... GM put the awesome turboed 3.8 into a lighter car and POW! all of a sudden Vettes were seeing Pontiac taillights!
agreed 100%. stock for stock a GN and a TPI Vette were equals, the winner was usually determined by the driver. however, once the 2 cars were modded, GN wins hands down

 

hmmmm.....weird.....nope thats wrong....because they are "putting out identical RWHP numbers doesnt mean that the crankshaft output is the same....thats like saying my 5000lb truck runs 10's so it has the same HP as my 80 malibu that runs 10's.

first of all, no, second of all if that was the case it would explained by loss through the drivetrain. the vette engine is not the same as the camaro engine, therefore will put out different HP numbers. It has a different cam, and different heads. If you dynoed the vette motor on an engine dyno youd see around 350 hp. They arent lying people, we arent talking about ford here.

im not trying to bash you here, but i do disagree on these several points.

by the way, anyone else noticed that the almighty "ls1.com" always has a different opinion of fact than everyone else does? could they be some almight power where everyone knows everything because their cars are newer? could it be that they didnt build their engines they bought them that way so they know better?

i think not, sounds like typical sh*t talking arrogance....as is found in most of motorsports these days....thats ok though im used to it. lol :rockon:

 

the camaro and the corvette both have the same ls1 engine, nothing is different at all, as far as the horsepower rating difference, its because chevy like to market the $50,000 vette has being better to justify the price. Maybe the guys on ls1.com think differently because they actually own an ls1.

 

lol its the same engine.

well im pretty sure its a different cam, and the induction system and exhaust system are much more efficient. Its rated at 350hp sae net....are you aware of how illegal it is to overstate that? the last time that happened was with the stang cobras and that was by accident....still cost them millions. lets be realistic people.

of course they think differently its called paternal superiority. You own it, therefore its better than everyone elses.

we're all a little guilty of that one :lala:

 

there is a kid in my tow who has a 2000 SS. his friend has a 1999 lightning. the maro and the truck both have some mods. the SS beats the lightning everytime. those LS1's are scary fast! the LS1 had exhaust and an intake lid thing. the ford had superchrger pulleys, intake and exhaust. the maro blows by him all the time when they race. those things are not something to take lightly. best of luck to theL98 driver, he is going to need it.

 

So i assume the 350 HP GTO is underated as well to still make the Corvette king?

 

well see thats not as much of a problem now as it was in 98....the z06 has 405hp. and the new vette 6.0 powerplant that is on the horizon is slated for over 500hp.

 

yes it is the same engine. chevy didnt overstate it, they understated it. the engine in the z28's and ss's are the exact same engine as what is in the c5 corvette. the z06 has a different cam and heads which enables it to make 405 hp, bu e c5 ls1 engine is the exact same thing as the ls1 engine in the camaro.

 

dude, honestly have you ever been in a vette? the induction system is much freer flowing, its routed better with much better placed ducting for better airflow and it has much better exhaust.

that alone is easily worth 30hp

 

dude, the induction system isnt the engine dude. and i ditched the stock induction system on my 2000 z28 for the k&N fipk and the stock exhaust as well, but those arent the engine, DUDE

 

if the unduction system and exhaust on the vette is so much better then why doesnt it put down bigger numbers on the dyno than the f body?

 

oh wait a minute...i thought we were talking about power here.....guess what that affects power output. DUDE

we're also talking about stock DUDE

your an idiot man, this is what pisses me off about the internet. If a pickle smoocher like this kid mouthed off like this in person he'd get beat up for his troubles. but no one thinks twice about it on the internet. we had to get rid of the chat section on our website for the truck because of people like this kid that know more about whats going on than we did.

 

its people like you who read magazines and sales brochures and think they know everything about another person's car. the induction and exhaust was designed different on the vette to fit its body and chassi, but the engine is the same on the c5 as the f body. you're the idiot, take your 6,000 rpm launching street driven big bad 383 and go somewhere else DUDE.

 

the corvette is a name. Just because someone pays $50,000 for a car doesnt mean he's gonna be faster. Ofcourse the vette handles better and weighs less because its a completely different better designed chassi and suspension. The fact is the f body's have the same ls1 that was designed for the vette. Both produce the same amount of power, wether gm admits it or not. They want to promote the corvette name by saying it makes more power than the camaro when in reality it doesnt.

 

Can't you guys ever have a civil discussion?

Future personal attacks in public forum will result in further action. Keep that in mind. Keep the insults in Private Message.
Thanks.