Well last night I bolted on my 26X11.5X16 ET Street tires and went out cruising. On the way home I line up at the light next to a silver SS with SLP center exhaust. As we're waiting for the light I start bring the RPMs up on the converter then I hear him loading his... light comes down and I'm gone by like 2 car lengths. At about 65 I started slowing down due to traffic ahead but he wasn't catching up Who sez you gotta blow $25k on a LS1 car. L98's are just as fun

 

Dam you must have alot done to that thing.

 

Are you in the 13's with your IROC?

 

Nice kill.




That pic always cracks me up.

 

Good kill. I went to that domain site and couldn't find anything you had done to it. So do tell.

12secGTA: LMAO! Nice pic.

 

good win? yes i want to hear about the mods also, ls1's are like low to mid 13's with a decent driver.

 

On the first page of the cardomain site it lists his mods if you scroll all the way down past the pics. But I don't know how up to date it is.

Mike

 

the only reason you won is beacuse u have et streets and you only raced to 65...

0-60 times are fairly close between an ls1 and a l98....and that fact that the L98 makes all its power down low and that u had et streets is why u won

id say by 80 or 90 he would driven right by you

 

I agree by the end of the 1/4 mile I would have been toast but I took him up to almost an 1/8th mile.

The mods are very few but it runs like a freak. It has MSD 6A, ram air, K&N's, TB Airfoil, modded MAF, 2000 stall, custom PROM, timing adv. to 12* base, 3" exhaust with Flowmaster 3 chamber, ported plenum, adjustable fuel reg. , Accel 8.8 wires, A/C delete, rear seats delete, power antenna delete, power seat delete, no spare, jack, race weight with me in it is 3540. It runs like a freak. People ask me all the time whats done to it. I tell them its stock and they won't believe me. I get called whenever I beat something out of the ordinary but i'm not one to tell stories or lies.

I hope to have some solid timeslips in the next few weeks.

 

You can't beat an LS1, it's just not possible. Can't happen

It is a good thing that you shut down early though...

 

Nice kill, the L98 runs strong off the line. Hey 12sec, I understand the loyalty to third gens, but I think urine is a little strong.
I wish I was a rich boy, a 427 C5R block would really make the 02 scream.

 

They prolly don't believe you when you tell 'em it's stock is because it isn't.


Oh yeah, you don't have to be rich to have a LS1.....I make 30,000 a year and I have one and 30 grand by no means makes anyone rich.

And since when are LS1's the enemy I thought fords were That's just great, GM vs GM and the ford guys are laughing theis a$$es off

 

Its just sweet when old technology beats new technology, no matter who the manufacturer is. Not like I went out LS1 hunting or anything, i was just in the right place at the right time.

 

I am not sure if you raced to a true 1/8" mile but after that you would have been toast. I can beat my roomates 2002 SS of the line to like 25 mph and than it is like he is in a spaceship. The are a bit sluggish off the line (if they don't do a true high rpm launch). LS1's will put down over 300hp to the wheels bone stock. When I ride with my roomate it is absolutley rediculous how hard that car pulls. He hits 115 at the top of third and you would think you are still in first gear.

 

Hmm, nice to know I'm considered rich. Also nice to know that now, we don't just have import-driving kids to put up with, but each other as well. Lets hate other gen f-body rides than our own, sounds like a plan to me

 

Old beating new? Yes, it is quite true TPI cars have tons of torque to get them going off the line, no argument. Have you raced, or ridden in a 98+ f-body any other times? Don't think GM took a step in the wrong direction when they designed the LS1.. You're deluding yourself if you do.

If old beating new is the thing to do, why not go back with a wheezing smogger 350 from a 70s boat on wheels, aka any full size car, and build it up? Exactly, because new tech is more efficient, makes power where it counts, and has serious potential.

It's nice you beat 1 new fbody, but don't get too high on your horse about it.

 

see sig.. *** i love TPI and a 406s torque.. and thos e#'s were before all my mods.. i honestly/conservitivly think im @ 440 rwhp and 480-490rwtq and thats before the 200 shot :hail: and now im thinkign of adding a ati procharger w/ intercooler.. come on 1000 ft lbs of good old detroit TORQUE

 

Dude don't be so sensitive. I agree that new tech beats old tech any day...its just ironic when old tech comes out ahead once in a while. I know that theres no LS1 I can beat in the 1/4 mile, but on the street anything can happen. I'm not on a high horse, I know my car is slow by comparison. No argument from me. I felt 10 feet tall pulling a few cars on the LS1 outta the hole though

So anyhow quit your whining... Anybody can go buy a new car thats faster than most of the old cars, but it takes a lot more than 1/4 mile times to have a nice car. 3rd gens just have a certain appeal to us that own them.

And as for the Calvin pee pee thing... Kind of immature if you ask me, but to each his own. I wouldn't put it on my car.

 

smallwood, are you near atlanta? I had my car tuned at Lamar Walden Auto on the east side.. those guys are f'ing crazy. The owner actually has a C5R block and heads sitting in the shop to be installed in his 98 camaro when he gets the time.. The guy who tuned my car has a 2k1 black C5.. supercharged MTI 436 with nitrous Anyhow, it's a good shop to go to (been open almost 40 years) but they do charge top dollar..

 

There are 2 reasons why he won

1: The other guy underestimated you and didn't drive it like he stole it till' it was too late

2: I think he would have still killed you in the 1/8 . Your best time is 14.52....maybe a high 13....sounds like my L69.....I have a rough time with LT1's. So you guys probably raced an 1/8 mi. or he got over it once you got the lead at the launch.

 

MTX: Yes, I am near Atlanta, just a little NW of the city. I'm familiar with Walden, nothing but good reviews. I'd like to do the 427 thing, but even at my employee cost finances prohibit right now ( thus dispelling the "rich boy" tag.) If you're going to the Gathering look for the dark blue Formula in the ACFA line.

Now, as for the generational infighting: This is stupid. All 4 generations of F-body were kick *** for the time period they came out in. Third gens appeal to me because when I was a snot nosed kid I always thought they were one of the baddest things on the road. As for the tired why spend the money on a new car when I can blah, blah, blah argument goes; people spent the big bucks in the 80's for the third gens rather than buy a cheap used Chevelle, Camaro, GTO, etc... There is neither a replacement for restoring a car or buying one brand new. They are both exciting, worthwhile endeavors.

Anyway, like I said, congrats on the kill. Nothing wrong with bragging or being proud of it.

 

you say you beat a new SS? doubtful

 

i hate to make enemy's on this board and dont think the comments i am about to make should...

most LS1 owners act like their Sh*t dont stink this is why hate the ls1 drivers has came out.. ford didnt have a real mustang until recently. I have yet to meet a ls1 driver that respects a thirdgen unless he already owns one... the few that have posted on this board are some of the few.. guys at camaroz28.com are cool too.. probably at ls1.com also.. but when on the streets it isnt like that...

he beat the ls1 no matter how you put it.. all of us have lost races because we missed shifted,underestimated,got a ****ty launch whatever the case may be....

i by no means am saying my ride is better then any ls1 my car should be driven off a cliff...
Shawn

 

I've owned and raced a ton of different GM Stuff......but here's my take on the whole "LS1" debate.....

ALOT of these owners had really ****ty attitudes towards other cars, especially LT1 cars and 3rd gen's...NOT ALL, but a good bit of 'em. I remember a post on LS1.com about some guy saying how he won't race 3rd gens because he thinks that's the only car they can afford, so why rub it in by beating 'em.. WTF?

I owned a LS1 car .....for all of 4 weeks. NICE car.....'99 Formula M6 that previous owner added the RAM AIR package too ( buddy of mine ) he lost his job, I did him the favor of taking over payments and was in the process of transfering it over to me when he actually found a good job in FL, and I "sold" it back to him.


Car was cared for in EVERY way, garaged etc from day one. HAd about 35k on it when I Got it.


Never did run it at the track, but all in all, for the amount the car cost ( Even cheap as I was getting it for just payoff ) it wasn't worth it TO ME personally. It didn't "feel" right to me to have car that fast when I hadn't gotten dirty making it that way.....maybe that's just my weird outlook.

The car rode JUST As rough as my IROC......which shocked me. No suspension mods either.

IT just isn't as fun to row through the gears from stoplight to stoplight.....VERY noticeable difference in bottom end torque vs. a TPI car.....

In fact, 6th gear was about useless at anything under 80 mph.....the motor would lug at the low RPM'S, where I've driven a T56 equipped TPI car with same gears and it had no problem at those speeds / RPM's......again, a low end torque issue.

The car is "twitchy" in the rain...this is with stock rims and brand new good tires.....my IROC after a custom alignment and good tires feels more "solid" in the wet stuff.

The instruments TO ME are "bland", remind me of my wife's 96 GP 4 door......it even had the same steering wheel as my wife's 4 door GP

Lots of rattles / wind noise for a new car.....better than the IROC, but then again, I coulda bought 10 IROC's for the cost of this thing new........and I've fixed most of my rattles in my car, couldn't justify doing it to a "new" car. That's a F-Body thing across the board, I still believe it's because the cars don't have a frame.


EVERYONE HAD ONE!!! Around here, I can't remember a day in the last few years I haven't seen a 4th gen Camaro or Firebird while riding around. Maybe twice a week will I see a nice 3rd gen...

Now......

In a couple of years, I could see me picking one up for my wife to drive, and for me to mod a bit, but no way I'm paying what they are going for now......again, that 's JUST ME.


Stock for stock, they will blow every 3rd gen off the road.....'cept the TTA of course

But how many people actually keep 'em stock?

Ever been under the hood of a 4th gen? I have...installed headers on a few LT1 cars.....half the install is blind, using feel to install / remove bolts etc.....

We won't get into the cost of maintenance / sensor / high failure items.....they are naturally more expensive, it's a newer vehicle.

And it's hard to get original with a 4th gen.....you're almost assured you'll run into one almost IDENTICAL to your car, even after modding it.....harder to do, at least around here, in a 3rd gen....or any other older car for the most part.

Bottom line.....

Say $20 for a NICE condition, low mile LS1 car. Let's say a A4 car with a GOOD driver, ZERO MODS, I'll be generous and say 12.90 ET.....

Now you can go find a NICE , SUPER LOW MILE 90-92 3rd gen ( easier to find w/ low miles in my experience ) for say $8000. Let's use a 50k mile '91 Z28, TPI, G92 350 car as an example...again BONE STOCK. Again let's be genrous and say 14.40 ET's.......

With the extra $12k I can guarantee you that just about anyone could build / buy an engine, better induction, upgrade brakes, suspension, interior, stereo, rims and tires........and match, and mroe than likely beat the LS1 car in performance.

Plus, the 3rd gen goes up in value, especially a low mile car. 4th gens will drop in value until the demand catches up with supply.

So it's all about personal preference.


But it can get funny. I had a sweet looking '02 Trans Am mess with me at a stoplight the other day.....where it's a stretch of about 10 stoplights that are maybe 2 blocks apart...he could never catch me light to light. We hit open road and he smoked me, as I held it at 80 mph ( in a 55 mph zone ) and wouldn't go farther. They pulled over at a gas station, so did I ...complimented the KID on the car. They got kind of smart assed about it.....then one of 'em said loud enough for me to hear, "That old POS falling apart yet?"

I looked over as I was pumping gas, and asked 'em if it was paid off yet? No answer. Then I asked 'em if they still lived with their parents......no answer. Then I asked him how much his car payment and insurance was a month......no answer.....just grumbles......


It's all in the eye of the beholder......and those with enough cash can always go fast.....REGARDLESS of the car.....and there will always be guys / gals that know how good it feels to fire an engine THEY built from a pile of parts, and will never forget that feeling or sound.


Later

 

third generations all the way!

 

Very well put ctandc.... My sentiments exactly. See we 3rd gen guys all think alike and i think its safe to say so do the 4th genners.

 

As a 3rd gen owner and LS1 owner, I'll comment on just my opinions of the cars, not the owners. B/c you will always have a-holes in any group of people.

First, you can get LS1's pretty cheap now. My T/A is a 98 and had 25k miles when I bought it for just under $13k. But, parts for these things are a bit more expensive than for 3rdgens. However, you also start off with a car that runs low-mid 13's already (maybe 12's with excellent traction/driving), can run low 11's on stock heads with a cam and bolt-ons, and solid 10's on the stock bottom end with heads and a cam (N/A). LS1's respond VERY well to simple bolt-ons. You can see my short LS1 mod list in my sig, and it ran 109 MPH already. Now compare that to my list of mods for my IROC which ran 109.5 MPH. The huge difference in ET is b/c of the 60'. The IROC has suspension mods and drag radials, while the T/A has no suspension mods and stock tires. I'm very confident that the T/A would run mid 12's with traction... and some better driving

No, the LS1 doesn't have the tq that my IROC has. I have to admit, all that tq is fun. But the LS1 is still very fun to drive. It pulls like crazy, which is fun in it's own right. I raced a 224/224 cammed LT1 from 40-125 MPH twice and beat him both times by 1/2 car, and I had a 200 lbs. passenger with me.

I took a 500+ mile trip for work in my LS1 last week. It got 30.12 MPG on the highway at about a 72 MPH average. Not bad for a 109 MPH car.

Someone posted about working on LS1's. Yeah, that can be challenging at times. I did a plug change a few months ago. The first 7 plugs went really quick. The #8 plug, which is way under the windshield, took 3 times as long as the first 7 combined. But the IROC has been challenging to work on too. It has more years of rusted on parts, etc. to battle. And more things that need replaced b/c of how old 3rd gens are becoming.

Personally, I'm starting to like the LS1 better. The more I drive it, the more it grows on me. They really are great engines. And stock for stock, the LS1 is way more fun to drive than my stock 350 TPI was. But who leaves their car stock?

Anyway, both gens have their pros and cons and every group of people has it's a-holes. Drive what you like. The only "group" I don't understand is the *****/import crowd. I just don't get it.

 

If you think the 4th gen vs. 3rd gen debate is bad, then you should see the vette guys. I'd say a lot of them will look down on an F body, REGARDLESS if it's a 3rd or 4th gen. So all you cocky 4th gen guys, you're still on the bottom of the food chain, at least in their eyes.

Sure those Vettes are nice cars and all, but I don't think I could spend that kind of money on a "***** extension", lol. And if you think I'm exaggerating on that comment, someone made a post on the corvetteforum about which car to get...an LS1 T/A or a C4 vette. Well of course somenone replied that he should get the Vette because it gets all the girls, etc. I'm sorry but if you need a car to get girls then you have issues. Probably some middle aged guy on Viagra that thinks he's "cool". I'm know they're not all like that but it just reinforces another stereotype.

 

i can think of a good reason to buy a vette over a fbody for the vette's superior suspension design and better aerodynamic's. of course the IRS on the vetter isnt exactly a strong point for drag racing, but that has been adressed by aftermarket and c5r irs. plus look who beat the vipers out at le-man, C5R. i agree it is not the right reason to buy a car for the ladies favor, but if i could affford it the 97 t/a would be replaced by a new C5. can anyone honestly say if they could have a vette they would not take it?

 

Not many, check sig.

Usually don't have a problem with LS-1's

 

I can honestly say I wouldn't take a C5 over either of the cars I have. The looks do nothing for me. Actually, not many Vettes look good to me, I've never been a big fan of their styling. I don't necessarily think they are ugly, but there are plenty of cars that just look way better to me.

 

i didnt mean only on the basis of style, i mean overall performance

 

just wanted to clear this up. the Vette IRS isnt as bad as alot of people think. ive gotten 1.78 60fts out of my 89' which has a 100% stock suspention. it even has the original 14 year old bilstiens on it! ive never seen any fbody come close to those short times with a bone stock suspention

think about it... the Vette IRS has been around since 63. thats alot of time for GM engineneers to make it right

 

lol man you got what i said in the wrong context i guess, you only run 13.2(not that thats slow), so you pry have less than 400lbft of torque, if you got into serious hp mods with say some suspension mods n slicks or drag radials and you started to hook good and was pushing like 400hp/400lbft at the ground the irs would start to fail miserable. just like the weak *** 7.5inch rear in 82-02 fbodys

 

LS1's don't scare me. Many will go down hard this season once again. And for alot less than what it would cost to probably buy a crate LS1 for I might add.

 

i'll jump in on this one since i own a vette also. my stock 87 pulls low 2.0 60's with a 2.59 gear. i could of bought a LS1 SS or TA but i wanted a vette. always did. i own an 82 Z/28 that is my first love and will always own but to say IRS sucks you must never driven in a vette or watched them launch at 3000 rpm on a set of DR's that run faster than mid 11's. they squat and just leave like nothing else i've seen or driven. ZR-1's are rated around 405 hp and 450 torque Callaway's TT 405 and 580 torque Z06 405 and around 450 torque stock run high 11's the Callaways and ZR-1's low low 12's. Take a ride in a vette with IRS and launch it. you'd second guess a vette IRS in a heart beat! now given these cars aren't set up as Drag cars which a camaro is more closer too but they are set up for road racing and still can out launch most cars stock for stock.

 

nah... check out Corvetteforum.com. theres plenty of guys running 11s and faster on stock Dana 44 rear ends. no suspention mods and no gear upgrades. these rears are VERY strong right from the factory. there are guys cutting 1.5/1.4 60fts with this rear end

 

ha! they all blow after a while, there are alot of 11 sec camaros still on there 7.5's but they only last so long, then they start to fail. you cant argue that its fact. just a matter of time, but i sure hope they hold up for you guys really, and i never said irs sucks to those who put words in my mouth. i have nothing bad to say about any vette i love em and wish i could afford one

 

forget about the vettes.. get back to 4th gens. Now i dont like to fight within ranks, but 4th gen owners do need an attitude adjustment. Unless they had a 3rd gen at one time, they dont respect 3rd gens till they see some grid lights. LT1 drivers more the LS1 drivers will take shots at the TPI crowd, because I guess they have middle child syndrome. Not the looks of the Thirdgen, but not the power of the LS1...
I was over on LS1.com, and people over there think thirdgens are slow rust buckets driven by hicks. People who think that are no different then import or stang people. Its good to have a go at 4thgens, but some of them need there clocks cleaned on the street or track. I will def. be happy after the first time i smoke a LS1. Most of the 4th gen owners i know are pretty cool, but do crack jokes about third gens. I say good kill. No one is hunting for fellow Camaros, but its still pretty cool to beat out the fastest ones ever made. again... good kill!!

 

Well said.

 

actually, where i live its the LS1s that have the bad additudes.

 

hey bigal87z28, guess what i had a 40 thousand mile original 83 t/a. is was a sweet car, i even beat a 96 mustang gt with it. it was all stock auto with the lg4 305 3.23 posi. the only mod i made was a flowmaster catback n open element air filter. it ran 9.7 at 71 in the 1/8th, my point is this i got love for third gens but they arnet nearly as good as the 4th gen. and ive got news you will never ever beat a ls1 in that 305 no matter what you do to it due to the 305's tiny bore. dont even bother with the torqer heads. they do nothing, seen em dyno tested on a guys car in a chevy hi po mag. besides any good flowing 350 head will just have excessive valve shrouding and will be useless. get a 350 block and then after you mod it heavily you will have ls1's do i need an attitude adjustment just bc i told you the truth? no what i say about alot of third gens is fact, dont mean i dislike em, so me suck and i make fun of them but i like alot of them

 

Never beat an LS1 with a 305? Where are you getting your information? RB83L69 can beat them. If I could get some traction in my 91' it would be awful close. Forget about how efficient the LS1 is and all that jazz.....you can get a n/a 305 to a safe running 375 horsepower if you build it right. That combined with a proper drivetrain and traction will eat LS1's for breakfast.

 

id be more ashamed to say i have *spent $$ on* a 375 hp 305 then to say i lost to an LS1

 

You owned on thirdgen(an 83 at that) and based your view on that. Stock for stock a 4thgen is faster, yes. But if compared an SS to an Iroc, the handling times, and handling potential of the Iroc surpass 4th gens alltogether. So if this view is based on an engine platform alone, an engine is very easily replaced, and power is only limited to how much money your willing to spend.
Considering the price it is to build an "old school" 383 nowadays, back to basics carburation, you can make more power and go faster than an LS1 for cheap.

 

oh ***.. not another 3rd gen vs 4th gen thread..

 

97, your the one getting all testy about this. I know 4th gens are fast. They are the best, but when a thirdgen goes up against a 4th, and the 3rd pulls out on top, you got to know that the 4th gen driver is gunna think about that for a long time. He wouldnt of thought about it if it was a civic, cause you throw in a integra engine, turbo, naws, and you have a ls1 killer. But, if you have a n/a thirdgen beat a 4thgen... you know thats gunna hurt more then anything, unless the two guys are friends, but even then they will think about it. What if beat you in my 305? doesnt matter what i got, but i did beat you. no power adder, no nothing, i just flat out beat you.... how would you feel? Yeah, i want a 350 really bad, but i wana see how many of 4th gens i can scare before i have to swap in some big power. And there are a lot of 305's that will beat modded LS1's. look at baddas305's(think thats his name) car... runs mids 11's. theres also a guy in new england that has a 305 that runs 9's n/a. Yea, you could mod out a LS1 with all this and get the same time, but for a "old rust bucket" to run the same time... its got to get at all thoes 4th gens nerves. I would love to drive a 4th gen, and im tryin to get my dad back into fbodies, but my 3rd gen has better looks, and can be beefed up for cheaper then a lt1/ls1 could, and run the same time. Got to admit, 4th gen aftermarket stuff isnt nearly as cheap as Third gen stuff is.

 

yea.. i agree with stupid on this 1.. id feel liek crap if i got beat by a 305 or a 2.8

 

Okay 305 maybe...but getting beat by a 2.8? I would light my car on fire! LOL.

 

lolol you 305 people make me laugh. but sure i bet there is alot of 305's that run in the 11's but ummmm they are more than likely a 4 inch bore block with a 283 small block chevy crank and like a .20 over bore to give around 305cu in. a factory 305 is weak no matter what, get real please you people who act like your 305 can beat a ls1 are dreaming. and to the guy who mentioned old tech gets more power per $ i hear ya very true and im a big fan, even got me a 68 firebird with a big old holley carb, but the SFI starts easy in 20 degrees, gets better fuel economy and is more smooth. please no more "this guys 305 is a factory short block and runs this n that" bc they all arnt close to a ls1. maybe if you are on a tight budget and ya get 300hp out of a third gen 305 and you wana brag fie but still aint gona touch a new SS trust me, my lt1 could kill any 305 on this site respectfully. i dont mean to start a war, its just facts. sorry all you 305 fans, just do yourself a favor and get a L98. then you wont loose as bad unless you mod it well