I'mpretty stock, will be puting on an open-element, cowl hood, headers, no cat, and muffler on in spring. What kind of induction is the 5.0 Rustangs? How much of a chance would I have against one with none or similar mods?

 

You are probably gonna get beat, I think the 5.0 stangs had around 230HP compared to 170HP for the 305TBI. I am not 100% accurate I am sure but I belive others will post the info to prove it.

 

I think you will lose.

Didn't those 5.0's run mid - high 14's? Unless you have one of the more rare TBI's putting mid 15's bone stock, I'm pretty sure you'll lose pretty badly.

 

It also depends on what Mustang you mean. The 5.0 ran from the mid 80s until 1995. The mid 80s cars were slow, until about 1985 where they were in the low 15s, and a few were cracking 14s out of them. In 1986 they went to FI and the cars slowed slightly because of a restrictive intake and heads. In 1987 Ford added the E7TE heads onto the cars as well as an intake with larger runners, but hadent added the mass air meter yet. They did this from 1987 to 1988 (except CA 88s had mass air meters) and these were arguably the fastest production fox bodies (not figuring special models). Then in 1989 they went with the mass air meter which slowed the cars slightly, but not really enough to make a big deal out of it. Basiaclly yhe car stayed unchanged until 1993 when Ford scrapped the forged pistons for hyperutectic ones. People cringed yet these pistons have been known to run into the 10s, and also weight less than a similar forged pistons (which anyone knows, weight is bad). The motor basically stayed the same into 1994 and 1994 with slight changes due to the new engine compartment. In 1993 they also had the Cobra make its debut, and with a rated 235hp and 285tq (underated) these were probably the fasest production fox bodied Mustangs. The 1994-1995 Cobra remained similar but carried extra weight causing slower 1/4 mile times.

pre 1985.....15s at best
1985...........high 14s - low 15s
1986...........low 15s - mid 15s
1987-1988..mid 14s
1989-1993..mid 14s - high 14s
1993 Cobra..high 13s - low 14s
1994-1995..high 14s
1994-1995 Cobra..low 14s

These are all an average so you might see higher or lower, and these are all figuring stock, so any modded car will be affected differently. Also these times are decided for a standard transmission, an automatic will be slower, as Ford used the AOD and the AODE with a 2.40 first gear. Couple that with either the 2.73, 3.08, or 3.27 (pretty rare) rear gears and the cars just didnt have the gearing to run the times.

Hope this helps some!

 

What makes the ford 5.0 so much faster than mine and produce so much more horsepower? Is it TPI or TBI? Is weigh really the big difference, if not what makes them so much better?

Edit:By better I mean faster, We all know GM kicks Fords @ss any day.

 

Hate to break it to you, but in regards to a GM vs Ford 5.0L engine shootout, 1982-1992, the Ford will kick GM's @ss any day. One big difference between the two is bore/stroke dimensions. Ford used a larger bore/shorter stroke combination, allowing for larger valves to be used in the cylinder heads.

 

I believe the biggest difference is the bore to stroke ratio.

I sometimes get these confused so bear with me.

Chevy 305 = small bore and long stroke

Ford 5.0 = large bore and short stroke

Also, it doesn't help that the camshafts in the LO3's were about as smooth as a broomstick.

 

I was told all the same stuff when i first got my car, I also was given the graphs and numbers and such, but if this stang is a 94-95 i say you'll be able to edge him out if he is stock and you put on your mods. However if it is a fox body, you will probably loose assuming it is in decent condition(engine wise). This is from my experience with the stangs but anything could happen especially on the street. Good luck

chris

 

which are considered the fox body? Over the V6, I'm a given.....right? My friend's got a '95ish with a V6, I should win right?

 

I know from experience...you won't have a chance. My mustang is pretty typical of what you'll find on a friday or saturday night cruise. Very minor mods, but mustangs are REALLy responsive to them. I've never been beaten by a thirdgen yet, L98 350 TPI, 305 5 speeds, ect......My mustang has a 93 cobra motor with 245HP, but its basically your average stang motor with a different intake giving it 10-15 HP more. If you want to beat a mustang with a 305, you need a cam/gears/intake, but even then I dont' think you have a chance unless the mustang is really stock. I beat my buddy in his 305 LO3 that was converter to carb, and he has a 262 extreme energy cam, 3.73 gears, a TH350 tranny, headers, and 3 inch exhaust, and I pull on him hard, especially off a light. Your best bet is a 350 with cam.

 

You are going to lose Farfire. Just thought i would let you knwo ow to save yourself the embarasment. The ford 302 is a great motor and always gave the L98 a run for its money back in the day. Gunny had it right with the bore to stroke ratios there. But there is more to it than that. They have a much better induction (multiport), better cam, and better heads. The fox bofy is like calling our cars 3rd gens. They are the 80's and early 90's mustangs. The 94 thru 96 GT's are horrendously slow in stock form and you could beat one of those. They are on par with a stock LO3. Ford always put great bottom ends in those cars (most were forged until the last two years where they went with hyper stuff). Because of that, they respond well to huge doses of the juice and big heads and cams.

 

My car is also pretty typical, stock heads, stock cam, Cobra intake gears and exhaust. Anyone with a 5.0 has these mods and usually more... and this car has gone 13.0 @ 103. Most Mustangs out there are mid 14s or better. They are lighter, have great rears, and trannies (T5s), and respond to mods.

What usually makes a Mustang slow is the driver.

 

25th- lets hear more about this RS? whats the deal with this?

let me know

 

Damn, you got a 13.0 from that setup? nice I haven't run mine yet, but it sounds almost identical to your setup, that would be sweet if it ran 13 anything. Ever since I installed the 3.73's, I haven't had any problems beating pretty much anything off the line, its just a matter of whether they'll catch up. I was thinking to swapping an E303 cam, beefing up the clutch, and hitting it with a shot of nitrous to try and squeeze low 12's out of a totally tame daily driver, I think it would be sweet.

 

Wow... you really need to do some learning! Thank you for trying to educate yourself!

From my minimal understanding, it's not so much the EFI system that Ford uses, it's the bore and stroke of the 302 that makes it as good as it is.

 

There are lots of factors, not just the bore and stroke. Realize this: a factory 5.0 EFI mustang comes with superior fuel injection, FACTORY headers, FACTORY dual exhaust, FACTORY crossover h pipe, weighs less, forged pistons, rods, iron crank, roller rockers, the list goes on. 5.0 stangs pretty much dominate GM until the Ls1's came out. I just got done racing my buddies ram air 6 speed lt1 97 trans am, and even him I beat by a car length and a half. They just have a nice sweet combination of all the right parts.

 

I would'nt go so far as to say they pretty much dominate until the LS1. A stock Speed Density L98 3rd Gen or any LT1 should win. Maybe with a LX notch 5-spd or a Cobra but not with a GT vert auto. Options can make a big difference. I raced a Fox GT auto with just a cold air and he ran a blistering 16.0. Another guy who runs in Pro class with a Fox GT auto runs 15.67 all freaking day and this is at sea level. My experience from the track is that most run in the 14's. I know there are plenty that are quicker, but they usually aren't NA or have serious mods.

 

Well i remember when del91_305 had just a 14 x 3 open element, 3" flowmaster catback exhaust, crappy tires, and stock 2.73 gears, he owned one with minor modding, so add a 3in exhaust to your setup and you'll be amazed at the difference!

 

The motor basically stayed the same into 1994 and 1994 the motor didnt stay they same i dont think. the last year of the 5.0 was 93 i thought. in 94 they went to the new body style and the 4.6. my friend has a 93 stang and thats all he talks about is it was the last year of the 5.0. mind you he dont have a 5.0 in it anymore. hes got a 363 stroker with a supercharger. lol

p.s. sorry im not good at the quoting thing on here.

 

Jgolden314: The RS is just going to have to stay a little secretive for a while, but rest assured everyone will know when the time comes!

ChrisFormula355: Yes I got a 13.0, ut that isnt even very impressive anymore. Too many people have gone 12s with the same or less (they usually have suspensions though) that my car to me seems average (for a racer, not just a kid who cruises around and hits the track twice a year).

JaysZee: I believe you see these slow cars, but realize those times are extremely slow. Those are not even close to the average for ANY 1987+ fox body car. I too see cars run times that arent average, but I see them run faster than the average, not slower.

kid camaro: no, 1993 was the last fox body, not the last 5.0. They kept the 5.0 until 1995 and the 4.6 debute was in 1996. Your friend is wrong, unless you miss heard him!

 

95 is the last year of the 5.0..96 began the 4.6 motors.

 

maybe hes wrong then. i dunno. i was just goin off what he said.

 

The thing to remember is that like 90% of all 5.0 mustangs are 5 speeds, so seeing an auto at the track is kinda rare, as they are the slower of the breed. Not to say an auto can't be made fast, but I'd just rather have a 5 speed for weight savings and gear ratios, although, interesting enough.....most auto stangs came with 3.27 gears, while all the 5 speeds came with 3.08's or 2.73's. Gear swaps in a stang are SOO easy though. Did it myself in 2 hours.

 

I think 90% is kinda steep. If i remember correctly, MOST convertibles were AOD. I think the percentage was a touch over 50% on average....maybe 65% were 5-spds.

My LX is an AOD. No fun to drive but it is quick. I only have minor bolt ons like gears and exhaust and have run 14.0 @ 100MPH with some traction issues off the line.

But i hate the AOD so i'm gonna perform a 5-spd swap very soon.

 

Officially, the fox body are the 79-93 Mustangs. But the SN95 chassis (94-04) is technically a modified Fox chassis sometimes called the Fox-4 platform.

 

What's a 363 stroker??

You mean a 393 stroker?

If he has a 393 stroker with a blower he should have known that 1995 was the last year of the 5.0 and not 1993. I mean that's pretty basic Mustang knowledge.

 

no im sure its a 363. maybe not a stroker but i know its a dart block. he put 14000 into the motor last summer. ill see if he can get me a parts list for ya.

 

yes

 

A Dart block can go well over 360 ci, but I dont know off the top of my head the bore and stroke required for 363, or if it is evn possible.

But if it is, a dart block would be the way to go!

 

i know for sure its a dart block. im pretty sure he said its a 363. all i know is he dumped a lot of money into it and it sounds very sweet. hes gonna take it to a dyno soon and get it tuned then take it to the track. i might be able to get a few pics soon of it.

 

In response to the original question.. the 5.0 will win..

 

Haha, i pretty much had given up on this forum. 363... dart... ha, i have no idea. I just wanted to see what's so great about the 5.0 rustang. I have learned though that it's not to be messed with.... yet. Got to have a goal.

 

I think I can answer this for you. Your 305 and that 5.0 have the same displacement. a Mustang's stock induction is the same as most cars inlet behind front bumper to the air box through the mass air flow sensor that goes to the air intake resonator "A muffler for the intake." to the engine it has sequential multiport injection. and with the same mods though theoreticaly he has more power than you I'm willing to bet you will win.

By the way I have a 5 0 its about as fast as my friends RS with a 350 we have never really raced so I don't know hope I answered your question

 

The funniest thing in this thread is even though they general consensus is the Mustang will be faster, you still call it a RUSTANG...

Give me break, and grow up a little!

 

to compete with the ford 5.0 you need a chevy 350, end of discussion. Unless you want to seriously mod out a 305, the most important thing is that all engine parts work with one another, as well as the rest of the car.

even the Ford 4.6 has good power, I drove a truck with the Triton V8, it can move when it needs to. And I'm sure it could smoke some thirdgens.

Isn't it strange that the 'rustang' never really came of the assembly line with the 351 5.8? Unless someone swapped one in, the 302 did fine for most applications. Ford simply had a better design for a motor with the same cu-in as Chevy's motor.

One more thing to note about the 'Rustang' is how well they hold thier value, you can't find a good 5.0 for under $5k most of the time.

 

Also cheaper to make a Mustang faster... easier to work on, and less parts that seem to break. Your best bet is a carbed or built 350!

 

25mustang,i love my thirdgen but you are right the mustang is much better to work on thats y you see so many people with them at the strip,i think the thirgen f body looks better but the mustang is a better car to make a race car out of,i mean even down to the t-5 trans for some reason there stronger,the exhaust is a lot better than a thirdgen,not that you can put good exhaust on one cause i have but the mustang is much better to work on,and as far as the 5.0 vs the 305 tbi,your going to get your *** handed to you

 

yeah if its in a fox body, two of my best friends have stangs, one a 95 gt 5 speed o/r h-pipe, underdrives, k&n w/ removed air silencer, smog delete, advanced timing and 245's on the back for traction......... the other a stock 97 gt auto.... lets see from a stop i could pull on both to whatever speed they wanted when they were stock. then we used to go from 55 i would get walked by the 5 speed but the auto couldn't gain but i didn't really pull. now i have done whats in my sig the only one i have gone against is the 95 from a start he got me cause i couldn't get traction, from a 55mph roll i walked him...... yep i sure got my *** handed to me(sarcasim). so in answer to the original question yes it possible for you to beat a 5.0 stock and possibley you could if it had minor mods




chris

 

the original poster did not say he had all of those mods: long tube, chip, spacer....although he did mention some similar mods.

I would rather drive the Mustang with the sway bar where it belongs than a faster thirdgen with a missing sway bar. There are much safer ways to get traction on the street without compromising handling. Thirdgens don't handle too well in the first place...unless they have all suspension components were they belong in good working condition.

The LO3 is definitly a good 305 to work with, I might eat my own words here, but that is a motor that can keep up with a ford 5.0.


Typically a Mustang will tool on a Thirdgen mod for mod. If that '95 had long tube headers and a chip and maybee tuned up a little better, it would be a different story.

Is your friend comprimising the top end with that advanced timing? How do we know he didn't give you time to pass with a sloppy downshift? He must have birds stuck in his aircleaner the way you describe it!

 

Not to be a dick but any car without all the suspension components in good working order, in place will not handle.

 

They are a great car to have fun with but a built 302 will outperform a built LO3 any day of the week. 400hp out of a 302 can be achieved with ease. Try doing that to a LO3.

You can't compair the late 80's and early 90's 302's to the ones found in the mid 90's. The 94 through 97 models were dogs and very overrated by ford. They got even slower when the 302 was replaced in 96 by the 4.6l. They were much slower and in LO3 territory as far as performance goes. The 90 thru 93 stangs could hang and beat a lot of L98's out there. No LO3 can compair to that.

 

Most Mustang owners wont touch a 1996-1998 car, as in order to get any power they need forced induction or a ton of work. The 1994-1995s weighed more, but had the same potential as a 1987-1993.

400hp is very easy and could be done very cheap in your backyard. The T5s were great trannies (a guy recently went 9.8 on a stock T5in the 1/4) the 8.8s are also extremely strong, factory headers, true dual exhaust, 4 link style rear suspension, and the lightweight, all make it a great drag car.

For handeling, thats another story, on stock suspension it is a joke, but with the giant aftermarket, it is possible to make them handle good. Id rather have an Fbody for handeling, a Mustang for drag racing!

 

OTOH, the 94/95's handled better, had four wheel disc, and had an electric fan.

If I were to get another Mustang (03 Cobra excluded), it'd be a 94/95 Cobra.

 

Nah id get a fox and add disc brakes, and electric fan.

 

come on guys the lo3 is a dog,ive never seen an stock for stock lo3 even come close to beating the mustang 5.0 or 4.6,with that said, i love my third gen im 30 and have had 5 of them, still drive one evey day and have a third gen car that i use at the strip,but performace wise the mustang kicked are *** untill lt1 ls1,end of story as the lo3 goes, now the stock l98 would take the mustang as long as they where both stock

 

The LO3 isn't that bad. There are plenty of 5-spd cars running 15's with minimal mods. Hot Rod did a build up and took a '90 RS from low 16's to 14.2 back in the early 90's. I know that's not great by todays standards but I've seen plenty of stangs that run slower. Is a stock LO3 going to win very often? No! Is it in the realm of possibility? Yes! I've seen enough slow cars at the track to know anything is possible. How about a '94 LTI auto T/A running 15.2's all day. Is that normal? No, but I saw it last Summer and thought I was seeing things. Like I mentioned above, I've seen Fox bodies run 16's. Is that the norm? No, but it happens. I've also seen L98's running 15's. Car Craft's L98 Firebird ran 16's at altitude. Slow cars are out there, spend some time at the track and see for yourself.

 

Not a 5.0 but the 96 and 96 GT's were just as slow. There was a great race on the baords here about a guy who had just a few bolt ons that raced a co worker with a GT. The GT didn't apss him unitl they were at 95 or somthing. He then installed some ehaders and the GT was a car length back. They are very even but are to mnay years removed from each other to consider the GT