So last night I was out in the town cruising around, when I hear this weed wacker pull up next to me. I don't know what came over me, I knew I could leave him sittin like a duck, because I have seen the car run before, and it's not truly fast. (A turbo car I can beat!!! Mazdaspeed protege w/ intake and exhaust).

Anyways, we both exchange revs at the light, and I slide the gear leaver in 1st. THe light turns green, and I let him get the jump so I can monitor.

I am at about 1/2 to 5/8 throttle keeping up with him, I take it up to 5200 rpms and slip into 2nd and back off the throttle making it sound like I'm trying, but leaving lots of juice to play with. Meanwhile he's shifting and barking the tires like a bat out of hell. I let him have about a car on me by 80mph.

Well tonght (easter non the less) I was out cruising because I don't have any family worth being with other than my ol lady and she flew to texas to see her biological father for easter.

I pull into the lot to turn around(turn around parking lot at the end of the strip we all use to turn around), and and a bunch of my buds (domestic owners are in one cornor, and the Honda gang (in the other cornor of the lot) call me over. They were all giving me a hard time. THe guy that owns the orange protege pulls up, and starts talking ****, before you know it the phrase "Put your money were your mouth is get's thrown out." I pull out a Benjie, and he pulls out 5 andrews.

We hand the money to Aaron (he's split, he likes fast cars, imported or DOmestic, and hes one of those quite types that get's along with everybody and has strong morals, so we all know we can trust him). We line up, and I pulled him like a $5 hoe in Vegas.

We got back, and he was yelling, "Driver Error! Driver Error! I can get you this time", and pulls out another $40. He fiddles with these little ***** he had on the steering colum, and he lines up with me. This time supprisingly he almost stuck with me (I had a 1/2 of car on him at 30mph), then I hear a clunk clunk clunk and I thought I had broke something, but then I noticed those ever so blue head lights getting futher and futher back in the side view mirror.

I get my other $40, and I find out what happened. Apparently he blew his motor, because there was a big puddle of oil (THAT'S RIGHT, OIL!!) under his car. I over heard that he turned up the boost when he was fiddling with the ***** from 7psi to 13psi. THat was the cause for the demise of his motor.

Overall, $140 made in less than 15 minutes. Not to bad! Time to go buy a driveshaft loop. I guess that's payback for me getting hustled last week you ***** sonsabitches!

 

LOL

Good kill.

 

Not trying to be a ****, but sounds like some parts of this story are BS to me. I doubt he had an electronic boost controller in the car, especially if it was on the steering column. Certainly not stock.

 

kinda sounds like bs,, but i honestly dont care.. if he jumped a stock motor past 9psi he is a dumbass anyway. probably broke his crank or threw a rod through the pan.

 

It's cool if you don't believe it. It's just a story of what happened and it's pointless to argue with people you'll probably never meet in real life.

I just stated in the story what accually happened.

 

What does meeting you have to do with anything? I believe he blew his motor, nice kill I guess.

Since it's a factory motor, it'd have a much better chance of surviving a 9 psi increase in boost than a kitted motor. Something to keep in mind.


See if you can find out what actually happened. He probably had, had nitrous. lol

 

Man that was a killer story best I've read on this board in awhile! Unlike most of the other pointless can I beat this car crap! Just keep street racing an post it win or lose.

 

How did he get it home, or off the road?

just curious here.....what are those cars rated at? and how much do they weigh?

 

I'm going to take a guess tow truck maybe?

 

lol...boost noob...
he got what he deserved...who cranks boost without a tune?

 

He pushed the car into the parking lot, that's when I noticed the puddle of oil under his car, and the line of oil from where he pushed it from. I didn't hang out to see it get towed, but I'm sure that's what happened because the car was gone in the morning.

 

"The net gain of all the foregoing: 170 horsepower (versus 140 for the MP3, 130 for the base version of the 2.0-liter DOHC 16-valve four) and 155 pound-feet of torque (versus the MP3's 142, 135 base)."

SO with the intake and exhaust 4cyls only get about half the increase in power. SO he Might had had 180hp and 165 lbs-ft tq

My sources were : Car and Driver 3 page article (http://www.caranddriver.com/article....&page_number=1)

 

What do you mean here? Half of the gain that your car would get? That's not really true. I'm curious what you mean by half, and why you arrived at that conclusion please. Also, keep in mind that turbo cars are a completely different animal when it comes to mods.

 

stu I believe his logic is his car is an 8cyl and this is a 4 cyl so 4/8= .5 or half


so my question though becomes my car has no cylinders at all so how much of a gain would I get?

 

That's what I've figured, it just doesn't work that way 85. 4 cylinders make FAR less gains (in general) because they are much more efficient engines, so there are less gains to be had with simple mods.

Wait, let me clear something up. In some cases they are far more efficient, but in other cases they aren't really more efficient, but they are less detuned from the factory.

 

pulled him like a $5 hoe in Vegas LOL sweet

 

To complete what stu is saying,

4 cylinder engines are generally built to compete in the upper end, they have very little low rpm torque and are efficent because of the power they make but that power is only at rpm. Add a turbo ontop of that, find out the boost pressure, add that to atmospheric pressure divided by the cid of the engine, mulitply that by 85% and you have the actual "air displacement" of the engine.

Now, if you made an 8 cylinder to run in the upper rpms, like they run their motors then every 8 cylinder car would be strikingly fast and own all, problem is controlling the car and not killing people.

 

where do you get the 85% from?

 

efficiency of the turbo charged engine is approximately 85% of the air it displaces.

 

so if we have a 80cid boosting 10 psi
10+14.7=24.7
24.7/100cid=.247

something doesn't work here

 

Example:

The 2.5L Subaru WRX STI engine is 149.9cid in displacement.
Bore and Stroke is listed as: 3.92 x 3.11
Turbo Psi is set @ : 14.5 psi
It makes 300hp @ 6000rpm
It makes 300ft lbs @ 4000rpm

So by basic calculation... 149.9/14.7 = 10.972 x 29.2 = 297.8cid (air moving through engine) x 0.85 standard efficiency = 253.1cid (of air physically used during combustion.)

[29.2 = 14.7 (static air pressure) + 14.5 (boosted air pressure)]

Further information about this car.
The rear end/final ratio is 3.90,
1st: 3.636
2nd: 2.375
3rd: 1.761
4th: 1.346
5th: 0.971
6th: 0.756

Vehicle weight is 3260lbs. without driver.


I said it wrong the first time, Im in Law class, sorry.


Anyway, for those of you with good running stock L98's/G92 305's? as long as you didn't get your *** handed to you on the launch, you should have been good until the STI hits 4000rpm in 2nd gear. Then the STI makes more power than the L98. Is this correct for those of you who have raced them?

 

don't you have to use some math in law class.

or maybe that's why lawyers are so good at shafting cause they can't do the math


just giving you a hard time please don't take it personally/sue me/or file some sort of criminal charges against me.

dang it the law guy wins again.


but yeah your second time around it makes sense a little more. was just lost the first time around.

 

yeah I really wasn;'t paying attention when I was writing it the first time... sorry. And Im not an attorney, Sadly enough Im an accounting/finance major.. I cant believe I have another half an hour talking about infringement of patents.

 

Haha, I saw one of his buddys today, it wasn't his motor, it was his transmission. He threw some gears or a diff or something through the casing.

I got that imports only make half the power with adders then V8's do is. 4cyls are half the motor and therefore they make half the power. Also beleive it or not, but bud did end up with a Acura Integra Vtech and he put a Intake, headers, cat, and cat-back system on it. (Just under $1200 in name brand parts like AEM, DC sport, catco, and RSR). He put it on the dyno before and he made 139hp and 111 lbs ft tq at the wheels. After he did the mods he only made 152hp and 114 lbs ft tq at the wheels. $1200 for 13whp is such a freaking rip off. I'll never own a FWD imported ****box. (No offence to anybody here that does, it's just my oppinion)

 

I dont understand why such little gains I have read the post but I had a grand prix gt when I did those mods it gained 39 hp and 43lbs just wondering because my friend just asked me to help him with mods for his focus 2.3 with a stick and those are the mods I was going to tell him to go for

 

yeah well they are running half of the crap we are..

you gotta remeber, using the same amount of air 6 psi of boost in a 5.0 is the same a 12 in a 2.5L...

they just dont have the displacement.

 

Four cylinder set-ups don't have a lot of wasted displacement. The entire system is dailed in to support as much power as the motor can make in NA form. It is not uncommon to see the same exhaust size on a V6 car as it is a four cylinder car. So you can see why exhaust mods go further on the motor with more displacement. GM is notorious for wasted displacement. They tune/dial in a power number through intake and exhaust sizing even when their motors are capable of far more (as evidence by every small block and V6 cars like yours). Most stock NA four cylinder cars will see no more than around 10 hp with full bolt ones whereas an LT1/LS1/Mustang will see 30+.

 

4cylinder isn't always half the motor of a v8

and if that was the case I don't have a motor.


again how does your math work with a zero cylinder?

 

I thought you had court orders which prohibited you from exposing your wankel in public!

 

Comments like this are why I don't respect you. First, I agree that $1,200 for 13 whp is a ****ty deal, which is why I tell people that it's not worth it to build an N/A 4 cylinder.

Second, the gains are so low because it's the complete opposite of a **** box.

Last, it being FWD has absolutely nothing to do with it.


How much gains do you think you'd get if you put an aftermarket intake and exhaust on a Ferrari? 1-2 whp? IF you paid $1,200 for each part probably. I bet you don't walk around calling Ferraris RWD pieces of **** do you?

 

Oh come now, can there be such a thing as wasted displacement?

Think of it more as "unwasted torque".

 

Or simply some "added space" to heat up your sandwich

 

You mean wasted torque? Bolt ons on 90% of GM motors will increase power at every RPM point.

 

Accually, I call them over priced exotic **** boxes. Sure they are nice cars, but who really want's to spend @100k on a car?? THat's almost as much as my house and land cost.

And FWD henders performance in about everyway I can think of in a performance application. SO yes that does factor into the ****box equation.

 

That's only because you don't know what you're talking about though.

 

Sorry Stu, but you'd lose that one - somewhere around here I have an issue of Motor Trend (or it could be R&T) where they state that FWD is sub-optimal for performance. Think of it this way - when was the last time you saw a truly high performance automaker (Ferrari/Porsche/Lambo/etc.) make something on a FWD platform?

The primary advantage that FWD offers is economy - it's quicker, easier, & therefore cheaper for the automaker to drop the whole powertrain in as one assembly.

Not trying to start something, but unless you know of some "hidden advantage" that escapes everyone else, FWD just is not an optimal performance platform.

 

It's "vtec" not "vtech". And for 3-4k I can add 250-300hp to an integra. It's called Turbo, and the motor is called a GSR, which has been found to handle 500+hp stock block and actually almost hit 700hp with very few supporting mods.

 

Go speed racer. Go speed racer Go Speed Racer, Go...

 

 

So because a magazine said "sub optimal" that's it huh? It may not have the same characteristic advantages (relative advantages) as RWD, but that does NOT make it sub optimal. Why don't you check out a list of the fastest cars around the track at auto cross, and even on some road coarses and then get back to me on that one.

FWD? OH NO!!!! I can't do anything. Give me a break people.

 

Atten: Stu

The Reason I prefer RWD.

AutoZine Technical School - Handling

How I wrecked my buddies car!

 

I'm going to have to agree with everyone else here stu.. I don't see any performance advantage to a FWD setup. They're way nice in the snow though.

 

And this comment is more lighthearted humor than absolute seriousness, but MAN do drag slicks look GAY on the front wheels!

 

Vetech, vtech, vtak, vtec, it's all the same, and it all is a economy device to make their fuel efficient motors have a little zip to them so honda's cars would sell. But hey personally, he doesn't get his power till about 5k rpms, and I don't want to wait that long to get my power at that.

The only thing I can hand to honda is boy can they rev like nothing. My buddie takes his up to 7800 rpms with just bolt-ons. But the other side of me says with a 1.72:1 rod to stroke ratio my 350 could rev to 8k all day too.

I work as a mechanic (Doing stock motor swaps) part time and I have worked on enough Hondas and other FWD imports to know I never want to own one. Seeng these people pay $35 for a rear main seal, $25 for valve cover gaskets, $12 spark plugs, the list goes on and on.

And the last time I checked at the local auto X the fastest car there ran a 41.22 and it was a 99 Mustang Cobra.

 

85_Camaro_KID sure is as dumb as a brick.

Hondas rev to 8,000 from factory, not with bolt ons clown. You should know that if you actually worked on one. $12 spark plugs? Get the hell out of here with that ****. They take the same plugs as any other car.



To the rest of you: I never said that there was an advantage to FWD. What I'm saying is that if you build a track car that is RWD, and a track car that is FWD, there is not that much of a difference. FWD it self isn't economy the way it is tuned from the factory to be safe for the average driver is what is economy. I think a lot of you would be surprised if you looked into it.

 

you get a lot of traction with the fwd especially with the big *** wing on the back

 

Nice to make acusations about somebody you have never met in real life, but if you did, you would get the mexican tattoo provided by these (and yes that's me replying to you on the computer screen in the background).



NKG plugs from honda cost $12 through Rusty Wallace Honda. Call and ask, their number is 865-938-4222.

Also, I would be embarrassed of the fact that a kid (I'm only 20) is rubbing your face in the dirt on a subject as self explainatory as this.

 

I dunno where you got $12 plugs from.. that would be one ****ing expensive tune-up.. course you only need 4 but still.. I work as a real mechanic for a real shop, and I have yet to see a $12 plug for a honda.

As far as drag racing goes, RWD cars have a VERY clear advantage over FWD cars - such as weight transfer on launch. It makes RWD cars very easy to 60 well. FWD cars have a hell of a time compared to a RWD vehicle.

On a course I see FWD and RWD cars fairly close, with RWD's winning out in the end.

Of course AWD, properly used, will dominate on a road course. AWD is also useful in drag racing, until it gets to the point that it's far too expensive to make strong enough to withstand 6000 rpm clutch dumps on slicks.

Edit: Why am I not surprised you're wearing spurs when it says TN under your location

 

^Stu trying to prove a point of FWD is better than RWD.


^Stu contridicting what he said earlier.

 

I noticed that myself