... okay, and how does it rank against a factory Camaro of today? Stock for stock, it simply doesn't, so no need to compare a stock 3rd gen with the newer vehicles of today. I mean really, 1.94" and 1.84" intake valves, small cam and even smaller cams, and tight intakes for both. There is a reason GM used 22-lb and 19-lb injectors in the L98 and LB9, and if you know how to calculate horsepower with fuel you would understand my point, your not seeing any higher than 285-FWHP with 22-lb injectors and 245-FWHP with 19-lb injectors, so how fast do you think they are going to go.

Would not own said Thirdgen.

I just get sick of people comparing our 25yr old cars to the newer stuff. I think everyone knows that everything theyre putting out now is fast in relation to what it was 25yrs ago. So what? A dang pickup running a 15sec 1/4 mile or an ugly honda hatchback of some sorts dont make me hard.PERIOD. Now a nice 3rd gen...That does. And you can build it to go extremely fast if you want. And WAIT...that Ford Focus, that dodge avenger, they will be worth more in scrap in ten years.

Most members in this thread (not all, most) don't know how to make power with Tuned Port Injection. If we calculate mph at 4500-5000 RPM with final gear ratio, as well as poor rate of acceleration, we will see why 3rd gen's are so slow. My Tuned Port Injection is running stock runners, yet pulls above 6000-RPM instantly, and it did this even before the turbo. Trick is in the cam specs and the stall speed (if auto), as well as tuning. By the way, I am running the stock valve springs, which should tell most where the specs in the cam make the most difference...

You wonder why you get the reactions? You are posting in a thread titled:

why do honda/import "tuner" people think their stuff is fast

So the questions is, is it better to hide your head in the sand and think your Thirdgen is the end all and be all of performance? Or would you rather be educated about what else roams the streets?

The Focus ST, Mazda Speed 3, Golf GTI/R, Neon SRT-4, WRX, EVO, these are all either on par, or faster than every stock thirdgen except for the TTA and Firehawk.

Exactly^^^^

I was at the track one night and a guy was there running low 14s at nearly 100 mph in a Nissan Maxima RENTAL car. Same night I saw a new and STOCK 5.0 Mustang with an Automatic run into the 12s on stock rubber. Also FWIW Nissan and Mitsubishi performance was alive in well in the 80s and early 90s. The VG30DTT, RB25 and RB26 are very strong engines for the time period. Mitsubishi had the 4G63 and also the older Starion Turbo.

I have had long tube and siamesed SLP runners on a 305, 350, and 383 all in the same heavy old G20 van and all 3 would fly. Like you said, cam, headflow, slight port match work, stall and gearing all contribute. With 3.08 gears and 29" tall tires, I was practically trapping in 2nd gear, not great for ET but did not hurt the MPH much and was stupid fun on the highway.

its funny but true about all these kids nowadays they other day i was driving to go see my wife at work and some kids came up to the side of me and (while)driving ) was trying to get a reaction out of me by racing them givin ive got a v6 and its not fast per say and alll stock i blew them out of the water they had a honda with them tin cans on the back which prolly made them think how cool they were so what i am saying if you got the money and you want to invest in modding do it the right way and not by going out and getting every body mod u can find or thinking you are a race car driver just cuz you did these mods and take thime tim e to do the upgrades and then go race on the track and see how fast you can really go

I think my import is fast because it is at least slightly so. It's better then a Honda that's for sure

^ We were looking at BMW's too, preferably with the twin turbo engine. They drive extremely well, and will embarrass many fast cars out there, and will do it with class...

I agree with you there!!! Nothing I have ever owned has stayed stock and nothing I have ever had has escaped making passes down the track. Even my big, heavy fullsize conversion Express van with its blistering 15.8 @ 87 mph pass (L31 350 Vortec, marine intake, mild cam, headers, exhaust, 4L80E and 3.73s).

Nothing escapes my leadfoot. Got on my 5,800 lbs 4x4 truck last night and blew the carbon out of it while datalogging it for fuel mixture adjustment purposes after putting the stock catback exhaust back on it (was too loud post headers)

I'm not quoting that video. 11+ seconds to go 65-100. What did this piece of **** dyno again? I've driven U-haul box trucks that would outrun you. My 160HP S10 runs better than that! Just stop it already, you're embarassing yourself.

Then how about a bone stock Focus trapping speeds only the fastest stock L98's could aspire to. My ST is merely average in terms of ET and Trap speed, running mid 14's @ 97, and a best of 14.3 @ 98mph. The fastest stock ST right now is a 13.8 @ 101mph, and the fastest full bolt-on stock ST is a 12.9 @ 109mph.

$450 - Tune
$150 - CAI
$300 - Intercooler
$250 - Downpipe
$300 - Turboback

Yes, some of those items are more expensive than we'd see on thirdgens. But about $1500 will get you solidly into the low 13's with zero loss in drivability, or fuel economy. The average full bolt-on ST on a stock turbo is making 370lb/ft and about 290hp to the wheels. In fact, right now Ford racing sells most of the parts for this, much like the SLP Go pack that thirdgen's had. So you can do full bolt-ons and retain the stock warranty.

The ST is not alone in this, the Mazda Speed 3 has a larger turbo and can make more power, the same for the Neon SRT-4, and Cobalt SS/TC. All of those compact cars can be real terrors for even a fully bolted on Thirdgen.

If you count the 2+ seconds it took to downshift and start to accelerate. 60-80 on a 6.0 chevy truck is over 5 seconds in itself., much less some POS box truck thats probably a POS 5.4 or 4.8 in it.

Curb weight is close to 5,800 and with a driver and passenger its over 6,200. The front tires actually spun and caused the pcm to pull power when the converter flashed, that did not come back until around 20 mph. Not making excuses, just explaining how the traction control VDC system limits itself. Not to mention it was 97*F and about 3,700 DA. IATs were also hot as hell and that cause the PCM to retard the timing and richen the mixture to keep detonation away.

Dyno'd 330/410 on a Mustang dyno recently.

Its ok even if its not "fast" its quick enough for a crew cab 4x4 truck and with the added power pulls broken down big 3 vehicles like they are not even there. I looked down a few times on my 250 mile trip pulling this one and found myself over 80 mph running with traffic.



And I moved this one across town just bought it to part out. 99 K1500 Suburban, over 5,500 lbs itself. No issue towing it at all.

LOL theres a sticker on the fender of those things saying max 55mph.
Not that I can say anything, I was averaging 70mph through a twisty/hilly road through Algonquin park (one of our national parks) when I had just got my car.

Lets see someone actually do that on a highway with a 75-85 mph speed limit You will get run over by the 18 wheelers. I was running 65-70 pretty consistantly but when I tow I do not use cruise and found myself running 80 a few times.

What does this have to do with a POS Titan and it's delusional owner?

Edit: OMFG, he DELETED his video of the 11+ second 65-100 run completely off of YouTube out of sheer embarassment. I KNEW I should have saved it to repost...

Was not even close to 11 seconds, more like 8 from the time it downshifted until it hit 100. When you have something that is rolling down the road at a constant velocity and start to accelerate it takes a second to actually start to accelerate hard. Its simple physics.

Nothing POS about a Titan, stock for stock they outrun almost every stock 3rd gen produced.

Put the video back up.

Yeah? That's the thread title. What does your post have to do with ANYTHING I've said so far in this thread? Furthermore, why tell me all about your beloved Fucus after quoting me in a conversation with another member about his Titan?

baha

Some kinky stuff I don't believe he is using it right.

Beating a dead horse. It's a metaphor for a pointless effort. You can beat a dead horse all day and it won't get up and plow a field or run a race for you. Likewise, these two guys can go on forever and will never convince the other one of his view. It's getting old.

Lol I know what u mean kid at school with me had a mitsubishi eclipse he swears run down a 454 -.- yea my *** he was talking **** bout his bagged ride in front of his friends and a few girls so I walk up calmly and pull out 50 bucks and show it to him and said "this says I eat your eclipse for breakfast" (I have a 90 iroc) and he talked some **** but agreed we met up after school at the local "drag strip" XD a really long straight street that circles in on itself and I blew his damn doors off own at the finish line by 4 car lengths XD he didn't even have 50 bucks I ended up cleaning him out at 30 -.- damn ricers if your gonna talk **** make sure u can beat a stock iroc at the very least

Awesome do you have a 350 tpi? What year eclipse?

Yea and as far as the year model of the eclipse not totally sure I think late 90's early 2000's it had a 6cyl if that helps

Those suck if they are auto. The later year 3.5L 6 speed ones would give you a damn good run

Yea it was the 4spd auto I do remeber that

Same here, I have friends that always give me crap for buying my car. I tell them what I tell everyone else: There is always going to be someone faster,etc. To me Its about the experience. It has never been about the speed or HP. Driving newer cars is just not the same as driving a Nice ThirdGen.

All I see is some upset people in this thread.

consider this statement would have never been said in the late 70s or early 80s. newer cars were slower than the late 60's muscle cars. Just because something is new doesn't mean it is faster or better. a fuel injected 57 corvette could have beaten a 82 corvette (1957 Chevrolet Corvette fuel injected V-8 0-60 mph: 5.7 seconds - 1982: 0-60 mph: 9.2 seconds - http://www.0-60times.com/chevrolet.asp)

it all depends on the time and regulations etc.

that's a good kill lol

:

There's a 3rd gen in my town that would toast all these cars at the same time (granted it's not stock) but still and assuming that these cars are 25 years old and yet I still hVe more tourqe and HP than a large majority of the import world in fact it's almost embarrassing to say you have to buy a sport version of your car to be able to compete with a domestic muscle car from the 1980's

Sure u can make $1000 dollars go further in a import but the end result will still be less HP than the V8..... Unless of course a retard is the one modding the car

Okay, top model.

Compare a base model iron duke F-body against a base model civic or focus. Which is faster?

GTA, TransAm, IROC-Z, Z28, all of these are "sport" versions of the F-body. The same as ST and Speed3 are to the Focus and Mazda.

The comparison will never be Apples to Apples, but you gotta at least look at similar segments.

While you do have a point there were a few models of the 3rd gens made than the focuses and other cars but if u wonna look at as closely even as possible then you would take the motor that was the most abundent for both and put those against each other and while u had a point with the iron duke it certainly wasn't the most abundent motor tbh iv never acctually seen a iron duke motor, the most abundent 3rd gens where the base model camaro with the 350 throttle body for the earlier ones the 305 may have outdone them some years I think but overal 350 was most abundent vs the most abundent focus motor? I'm guess 4-banger an in a world where V-6 American cars have 300+ HP the point still arises that why have they not outdone the 215 horsepower of the base 85 350? Though u do have a point it's really hard to assume a situation where the cercumstancees where perfect

I can only suggest you read through the tech data pages in the main bar above. It has production data for every year, camaro and firebird.

The most common engine is not the L05 as you suggest, in fact, you couldn't even get an L05. The most common engine is likely going to be the V6 in 2.8L or 3.1L flavors, or the L03 5.0L TBI V8 with about 170hp.

The L03 is a far cry from any year TPI car in terms of performance. GM offered too many engine choices, and the majority of buyers chose the Image and the Sound, but left Performance on the table.

Hahahaha An L05 thirdgen!



-- Joe

If GM would have stuck with the TPI engines (305TPI should only have been available with a manual and the 5.7 should have got a manual option) and put the G92 package in all of them, the fox body would not have looked nearly as good. Fords marketing was smart using the 5.0 or a 6cyl. You either got performance or economy, unlike GM who offered performance, looks/sounds like performance, and economy.Unfortunately a majority of thirdgens fit into the lesser of those 3 categories.

Coming from a 1 year period of owning a 97 eclipse gs-t. I can say that not all tuners are *******s and think their **** is "fast". My eclipse was pretty modified. I put around $2,000 into aftermarket stuff like tuning, 16g turbo, turbo back exhaust, injectors, fuel pump, stuff like that. For being a turbo 4 cylinder dynoing at 330whp. It was pretty quick. Sure, a lot of muscle cars were faster. But I was faster than any thirdgen I ran into. In fact it was pretty sad how immature the thirdgen owners in Milwaukee would act. They would be so ignorant as into what a properly tuned 4 cylinder can do.

In summary.. I love thirdgens. Best looking cars on this earth. So much fun to drive. But in dollar for dollar mods and HP. The eclipse was just the better bargain. And I didn't buy cheap parts. I could have done the same build for around $1,100. =

A lot of import owners and "tuners" give everyone that owns an import or tuner a bad name. But I've found a lot of thirdgen owners who are complete *******s too.

My best friend had/has one. I think it is a 96 but can't remember for sure. Always a close race. I'd leave him sitting on the line with my torque and then in third gear the 305 wouldn't pull anymore and he'd start running up on me. He put on a bigger turbo, front mount, 3" intercooler piping, header, etc. Unfortunately for him he created such a turbo lag problem that is was almost the 1/8th mile before the turbo spooled. It pulled much harder with the new turbo set up and ran about the same 1/4 time. It was always funny to me that he'd fall so far behind and still almost catch me at the 1/4. Then he had crank bearing issues, sold the car, bought it back minus a few things like an engine and trans and hasn't got it going again. I like giving him a hard time about never beating me with the bigger turbo set up. he's really going to have his work cut out for him when i finish my LS1 swap!

I had one with a TPI on top. I was young and un-informed. I bought a reman long block, they asked for my VIN, and sold me an L05. The heads weren't that much worse than L98 heads. But the cam? The cam was TINY.

The car never passed emissions, even with a new cat, and it ran dog slow, must 15.3 @ 87mph.

After I learned better I looked up the cam and heads casting numbers. It was an L05, and not an L98.

Yea, it takes some common sense to build a street car. Big turbo = big lag. That's why I chose the 16g. It's big enough for 400whp and small enough to be fully spooled by 3k rpm.

I pulled one out of an old police car once. I think it was a '91. Heads got tossed, but the motor I think was a 4 bolt main. It got bored over and built up for a friends Z28. I don't know if the L05 in a caprice differs from a truck, but those are quite common too.

Anyhow. This thread needs to die. It's embarrassing. It's bad enough most of the country thinks we drive rusted piles of crap. Now a quick google search finds this thread and they think we are trailer park morons too..

-- Joe

Smartest thing posted in this thread

Oh man, the truth in this just hurts.

honda always has what to say, can you imagine this car in a paramagnetic paint

Well, I got outran by an 07 SI last week. Neck and neck until 70mph, then he pulled. He has header, high dollar exhaust, flash pro computer, open filter, hood spacer, not sure how much that helps. We ran twice, the car sounds good, no fart pipe there. I wasn't too disappointed when I lost. My car is basically stock. 91 350 tpi. We started from about 40mph. The money he put into those parts, he needs something to feel good about. The boy could shift really well to.