What are you talking about the 87 and up turbo supras could run the 5.7 and the NA could run the 5.0. Turbo dams could. I spanked TBIs in my 88 accord 5 speed EFI.

they were plenty powerful but not gods of the road

 

To be fair, plenty of cars could spank the TBI back in the "day", many of them from GM's own stable. The Supra is also a much more expensive car comparatively than even the GTA's and Z28s.

Against today's cars? Might lose to a stock Fiesta or run of the mill Focus.

Bone stock "import". My ST ran 14.3 @ 98mph in crappy air. Its not what I'd consider fast, but for a daily driver its quick enough and handles on rails. With full bolt-ons and tune guys are trapping around 105-107mph with the stock turbo maxxed out.

 

i beat a 1999 volvo with a crossfire 305

 

There are many Volvo vehicles; that's like saying I beat a Nissan.

A Nissan what? A truck? A 240sx?

 

Bring that Crossfire my direction! I just finished a little project and tuning session with my daily driver. It put down 332 rwhp on a Dynojet on motor. Until I get a feel for it I am spraying 75 more. Put down nearly 400 hp to the tires and 515 rwtq on a rich tune with 2° of timing removed. Ran a 9.20 @ 74 before spraying in 1800 da.









I was still working on the install here and waiting for the fuel rail adapter.

 

Volvo s70 or s60 sedan not sure exactly its kind of hard when he's in your rear view mirror

 

Awesome set up .

 

Thanks man! Trying to keep it hidden as well as possible. Picked up some convoulted plastic tubing to put over the stainless lines to keep them even more low key and shield the fuel/nitrous lines from some of the heat. May also take the labels off the solenoids and paint them gloss black so they don't stick out as well.

 

I'm surprised this thread has been going on since '08!!! There's a lot of TGO members/third gen owners committing vehicular sacrilege here, I mean bashing third gen F bodies!!??? Why don't these members/"enthusiast's" just sell their third gens to legitimate enthusiast's and put the money into their kias and hyundais??? Back in the day if you had an Iroc or a T/A, you could have swapped it for a couple of toyotas, hondas, datsuns, etc! Back then the people that bought Japanese cars did so because they either couldn't afford American autos, or because they could get them at low-reasonable prices. There are fast domestics and there are fast imports. To each his/her own! Try going to an import forum and bashing their cars, I'll assure you those members will not be as gracious about your opinion as the members here are, not to mention your point wouldn't even be received much less met open mindedly, if you even got a word in at all!!! RICE=Retarded Import Car Enthusiast

 

To each their own I guess. Out of the box my 5,800 lbs 4x4 was as quick as just about any stock 3rd gen. Reason I went with the mostly american built import is due to all the new GM/Ford/Dodge JUNK being built overseas and imported. I drove a newer 6.2 Ford and Chevy before I decided on my 2nd Titan. Also drove an ecoboost and the revamped 355 HP 2014 5.3 Silverado.

Nissan V8 is a strong runner to say the least with its 317 on paper underated horses. If the new 5.3 is 355 HP, they must be shetlands and the 317 HP must be Clydesdales. The stock 5.3 is still that pathetic.

Final numbers from the 75 hp shot are here, window switch was re-adjusted to start spraying at 3,000 rpm and WOT microswitch on the accelerator pedal. Dyno pull was started at ~3,500 rpm to keep it from downshifting mid run.

1st pull was 398.90 and 510.43 with the 40 psi fuel jetting.

2nd pull was 404.56 and 520.24 with the 50 psi fuel jetting same 75 HP n20 pill

3rd pull was 402.28 and 526.19 same as above with 1* timing added back, bottle pressure was a little low after the third run. Either the bottle pressure or the PCM added a little more fuel. Either way its making good power from a simple 75 hp shot.

 

GM made too many versions of the 3rd gen F-Body for the model year. All V8 models should have received the L98 the moment GM introduced it, in conjunction with the one V6 engine for that model year if people were after mpg with style. C4 Corvette's were produced the same years, yet nobody bashes them because that very focus was there with GM. What you see was what you got with the C4. Way too many models with way too many engine configurations for the third gen, and that is why they get bashed. The only engines that should have graced the 3rd gen F-Body should have been the L98, and of course the LC2 (with the non turbo V6's available upon request), and there would be absolutely no bashing whatsoever from anyone regarding the 3rd gen...

 

Apples to tangerines but whatever. I have yet to see a 1000+hp titan though, especially on stock parts! However I have seen a "pathetic" 5.3 make 1200hp on stock internals http://youtu.be/Awa2W6x1h9k

 

I agree, those two engines would have been the best possible platforms (of that time) in which to build upon! Not to mention they would have had more "out of the box" performance.

 

I agree with you 100%. There were too many gutless drivetrains out there getting smoked and killing the f-body's reputation. Ford had it right with the fox using only the 5.0 for their performance models.

There are always exceptions to this logic when considering mods but stock vs stock you are correct. My modded LO3/t5 can take stock 5.0's but there aren't to many of those left and it has to be from a dig.

 

First thing I would like to point out is this part of what you said
I'm an import owner. I've been to many import forums. From day one when I first started visiting car forums to this day now I still have to say this is one of the most closed minded forums I have ever been to. Not saying all but sadly quite a few members.
Honestly it's bad enough that if you tell the truth about a chevy car (ie you didn't win against a Ferrari Enzo with your stock 305) then you are nothing more then a chevy hater. Yes honest it's just about that bad at points.
while yes other forums have their issues this I still say is one of the worst as far as open minded. Now there are a few here who usually are the long lasting members who are honest and respectful of other cars and understand what their car can do and what it can't do. Those members have my respect. But there are many others here.... well yeah I'll just leave it at that.

 

This thing is still going? *****.

Well in my usual manner of randomly looking at this thread I've seen the stock for stock argument rear it's ugly head oh and the "bolt on" vague nommenclature is back.

FWIW I am a pit crew member for my friend who owns a (dare I say it........) Nissan shop (Ahhhh blasphemy on these forums) we run two cars in pro am drifting (not the normal racing we do around this forum but just go with it for arguments sake) one driver has an s13 with an rb25 built with tomei parts top to bottom, well let's say had, we HAD an rb25; now we are finishing up building an rb26 to replace the rb25 we blew to hell at FD last year. Shortly after paying exedy quite a pretty penny (after sponsorship discount) for the clutch to handle the power from the rb25 that's now...useless.

Driver number two has an 04 mustang, 98 cobra motor (whatever it is) with a front mount turbo pushing 15lbs of boost getting him roughly to 430 hp by the last dyno sheet. Last event, blew out 4th gear. (Sad day really) had to go buy a new one, and just pulled his motor apart to find it....in horrible shape after 3 rounds.


The point of all of this babble is pretty simple ; domestic, or import, both guys are paying out the rear for performance, the mustang keeps up with the s13, the s13 is much more drift friendly, but both drivers work their @sses off and built awesome cars......that constantly break.

Welcome to the world of cars guys, things break and we fix them. Doesn't matter if the car is "USA made (aka Canada and Mexico, such friendly helpful neighbors) or "import" (Ohio;in Hondas case) or DSM, wherever you guys land.

The pissing matches will continue, they don't have.... to but this thread wouldn't have made it 6 years if people could keep their junk in their pants and not feel the need to have a pissing contest any time someone says anything about a car that's not a third gen.

People lie. (thanks Dr House) "my car does ______ in the ______" people also tell the truth but are 90% of the time overshadowed by over embellishing narcissists who want to draw attention to themselves. My car has a 0-60 of 2.7 seconds and spits rainbows out the tailpipe while I "mop the floor" with every other car on the road (see what I just did there???) If we could keep the unecessary hostility to a minimum here that'd probably allow this thread to die ....orrrrr if people checked the dates on posts first. Don't get me wrong I find it funny to hop on and see this thread every so often so by all means disregard everything I'm saying lol just remember that this IS still in the "theoretical" section and people can/will say some ridiculous stuff, like rainbow exhaust for instance lol

 

I was just stating that when you go to other forums you might see someone put down the cars on that forum but you don't see the members on those other forums bashing their own cars. And if you go to any import forum and start bashing their cars and using the dreaded R-word, they're on you like a swarm of wasps! Yea you might encounter a few hardliners here, but still not near as many who are hostile in the defense of their beloved vehicles as a mother hen is with her young. And its easy to remain "open minded" when you, as well as others on a given forum, deem someone's argument invalid to begin with... I'm not saying that members of import forums are more steadfast in their brand loyalty. I'm saying that it's obvious that most of the members of this forum are highly open minded, more so than they're given credit for. As for me I have never been a member of an import forum, nor have I ever posted a thing on one of those forums. But I have to wonder, when you're on import forums are you as eager to put those who bash third gens in their place as you are the "import haters" on this forum? Do you stand up for domestics on import forums like you do imports on domestic forums? Because if not, there's a bias, and how can a biased mind an open mind?

 

q

 

 

So has this become an argument of vehicle loyalty? I'm not understanding your argument here. You can't even begin to tell me that thirdgens do not have their problems, that they're not past their prime. Those are facts, the same is true for a lot of other cars, have you ever noticed the amount of rx7 owners that hate rotarys? They're everywhere, they find them problematic and swap for an ls, then there are die hard rotary fans who will do anything to keep it going each person has their own opinions and you're comparing apples to oranges here posing the question of who defends who on what forum.

 

I was just stating how retarded it is to bash the the very autos that led to the creation of a forum on that very forum. I was pointing to the whole "I own a third gen-im a member of TGO-third gens all suck!" Thing, it seems to be a reoccurring theme here. I don't give a damn what people think about rx7's, I didn't sign up to an import forum, I signed up to this forum because I like 82-92 f bodies and I wanted to connect with knowledgeable owners/members here (which I've yet to do.) So I can learn more about these autos/sertain swaps and mods. I didn't sign up to read about people bashing the vehicles I like and try to push imports down my throat!!! I owned an rx7 once, and my third gen with 300k runs better than that p.o.s. did @ 120k... I might be talking apples to oranges, but you "import preachers" are comparing apples to artichokes. Its very moronic to go onto a forum and put down the autos that are responsible for the inception of that forum and tell the members "I'm a member, I own a third gen, they suck buy a Mazda". You want an import, that's fine. However I'm a grown @$$ man and will own and drive what I will! I didn't sign up to hear your 2 cents either, and I didn't ask!!!

 

I'm not trying to make enemies and stomp on toes here, this is a great forum IMHO. I signed up to learn how to better one of my cars, not to hear "sell it and buy an import"... Sorry for any offense, I assure you I wasn't trying to start a squabble or trying to get someone to jump down my throat.

 

I see more auto mechanics that drive a gm vehicle at import dealerships than at gm dealerships. go figure

 

 

Boom boom pow. I'm with ya brother. Facts are facts: SOME imports could hang with SOME of the Thirdgens back then, and a lot of modern imports can smoke a stock thirdgen. Undeniable facts. I can deal with that, and I can deal with people getting mildly huffy about it and lamenting that they must mod fairly heavily to hang with the modern imports. What is odd, however, is the lack of respect for what Thirdgens were and are. I whole heartedly agree with you.

 

Some of us are just being realistic. Our cars were built in the automotive dark ages. They had everything going against them, and while they were acceptable for the day, consider the standards of that day.

I skimmed through the last few pages, and I'm seeing quite a bit of what you describe from Fast355. Then I noticed this gem from him: Dyno sheet. He's claiming 430 lb/ft at the wheels from 340" engine at only 3000RPM. That is laughable at best, and if he believes that enough to post it, then you can discount EVERY single post he has ever made after that point because that guy is a fool.

 

You have never been around a VK56 have you. It was optimized for torque production from idle-5,000 rpm has the parts well matched fir making power there. Factory stock it put down 360 rwtq @ 2900. On a 75 shot I am making 526 rwtq @ 3,500 through an automatic 4x4 drivetrain.

All I can say is **** you and the high mighty horse you rode in on. Do a little research into the VK56 and get back with me. I ran mid 14s in the 1/4 in a 5,300 lbs truck bone stock.

 

With a hypertech can tune it went 13.987 @ 96.20 on. 2.006s 60' and at a different track in worse DA ran 14.01 @ 98.77 on a 2.02s 60' both at about 5,300 lbs. On a Mustang dyno running 93 octane gasoline and 3-4° less timing from 2,500-5,000 than my E-85 dyno it put down 296/388. It has atleast 20% drivetrain loss through an unlocked automatic. Mustang dyno has 10% lower numbers than a dynojet. 388 x 1.1 =426 and 296 x 1.1=325.6 hp on 93 and a can tune. 8-10% gain on E85 after retuning puts the numbers where you see them on the dynojet.

 

You are not going to get that kind of torque from a NA small block chevy that size, but a newer design engine with 4 valves per cylinder, 199/210 @ .050 cams, 20+ " intake runners, sequential fuel injection, longer stroke, smaller bore, longer rods, computer designed exhaust manifolds, you can absolutely get there, especially when you factor in torque multiplication of an unlocked ~2,600 rpm converter.

So far on the 75 shot the 5,800 lbs 2014 4x4 has run door to door with a 2013 Audi A7 from a stop to nearly 100 mph, where I let off. Those cars run 12.6 @ 112 mph in the 1/4.

 

You should try calming down, if you don't want to see it, stay out of this subsection, it's full of it, if you'd like info on modifications there's a plethora of information in the tech area, for what you're griping about this is the last area you will find the information you're looking for. Some people hate on their own cars, who cares? If it keeps you up at night you might wanna get that checked out, otherwise keep on scrolling, it's been like this for years and a rant or two isn't going to change it. The forum may have been made for thirdgens, but it's been flooded with whiney know it all's and people just looking to bitch up a storm, there's plenty of knowledgeable people around you just aren't looking hard enough. Who is "preaching" imports by the way? Certainly not me, I simply made an example using a very commonly swapped car which seems to have pissed in your cherios a little bit

 

Must be the computer designed exhaust manifolds

Look... I don't care what magic converter it has, or the variable length intake runners, or it's fuel delivery method. All I need to know is that a 340" engine isn't making that kind of torque at that RPM, period. ESPECIALLY not a DOHC engine! You want me to believe it's making nearly 500 lb/ft at the crank at 3000RPM? Stop having it dyno'd in the wrong gear and you're torque numbers will be a little more realistic. I'd be surprised if it broke 350

 

I have dyno'd in 4th 1:1 and in 3rd. The numbers in 3rd are actually slightly lower than 4th which is no suprise because the dyno accounts for gear ratio and 3rd gear has additional gear reduction and more drivetrain loss.

You need to learn about a VK56 before you run your mouth. If you drove the truck or looked at a time slip from the track you would realize the dyno numbers and track times reflect each other quite well. You would also realize, I had the power to leave harder than a 2.00s 60', but lacked the traction.


Here is one with me almost putting down the torque. Truck had 305/50r20s on it.

 

I had people saying I had gutted the truck to get those times... ROFL...

 

They make what...350 lb/ft at the wheels stock? Bolt-ons and tuning will NEVER account for another 80 lb/ft at low engine speed, period. That kind of torque is only found with boost, or more displacement, and you have neither. But hey, tell me more about your super duper import with magical computer designed manifolds.

 

TONS of VK56 motors put down over 350 wheel tq with bolt ons. The direct injection ones put down ~415 tq at the flywheel stock and the others are about 385

Technology is awesome get use to it because it is even better with smallblock sized V8s.

 

Once again, shows you know NOTHING about the VK56. The reason I mentioned the exhaust manifold design is because they act like shorty headers and work very well.

I gained nearly 7 tenths in the 1/8 mile and nearly 3 mph, SOLELY from a Hypertech programmer, same night, same track, same weather, just detuned the truck, ran some passes, and put the tuner on. Ran a FX2 Ecoboost crew cab F150 running a Superchips programmer the same night and not only ran quicker, I was 3-4 mph higher in trap speed.

Stock timing advance is for lower octane gasoline and running E85 with tuning you can absolutely gain 80 ft/lbs. The factory torque peak is claimed at 3,600 rpm, with tuning I was reaching peak torque at only 2,980 rpm on the dyno.

Its called technology and the VK56DE has a 50 year technology advantage. The 07+ trucks have intake camshaft phasers that allow the intake cam to be advanced 30*, moving the cam from a ICL of 124* to 94*. The exhaust cam is fixed on a 112* ECL. At idle the intake cam is fully retarded and the engine runs the cams at a 118* LSA, as you go on the throttle, the LSA tightens immediately off idle to 103* with the intake cam 30* advanced causing the dynamic compression ratio to shoot through the roof. Running in 4th gear (1:1) with the 3.36 axle ratio I have pulled 9,000+ lbs on the highway at 70 mph (2,500 rpm) without it once dropping out of 4th gear on hills. The cams are 232/244 @ .006 and 199/210 @ .050, with .375/.385" lift, pretty much a off-idle midrange grunt motor spec. The static compression ratio is 9.8:1 and the dynamic compression ratio pushes the limits of pump gas with aluminum heads with the cam advanced, hence the torque production when run on 104 octane E85 with a more aggressive advance curve.

 

Uprev dyno tested the newer VK56VD in a M56 and it put down 399 RWHP and over 400 TQ with only a resonator (rear cats) delete and short ram intakes.

Keep in mind this is a stock luxury sedan and the tuning has a TON of room for improvement as far as HP/TQ goes. At 6,300 rpm the engine was still increasing in HP when the speed limiter shut it down 400 rpm earlier than the rpm limiter.

http://www.edmunds.com/infiniti/m56/...no-tested.html

 

How you keep tranny from shifting itself at 2900? I dynoed my 6.2 gmc and couldnt start the pull under 4000 rpm yet still made 370 lbft. Thats 6l90e and 14 bolt rear. Manual mode still shifted out of 4th

 

By pedaling the throttle at lower rpm and only going wide open above 4,000ish. When you have a ~80mm throttle body your intake vacuum reaches zero long before the throttle is fully open. Airflow increases as RPM increases.

You can see a result of the pedaling in this run, the ECM actually started to drop out of fuel enrichement at low rpm, but quickly went back in as the throttle was opened and airflow and load increased. This dyno started at 2,250 where it was already making 365 TQ at the wheels. The little afr lean spike at 4K is where the the throttle was finally hit the floor.



Is your 6.2 stock?? Is it the direct injected 2014 or the older 6.2? Either way definately not bad, BUT the ports in that engine are HUGE and will never make the low end torque a VK will. I think the 6.2 is rated to make peak torque at 4,400ish IIRC.

There is a reason my nitrous pull started at 3,500 rpm. Did not want it to downshift on the spray.

Your 6.2 is putting down a few more twisties at 4,000 rpm than my old L31 with a 215/220 @ .050 cam and ETec 170 heads with Tri-Y headers and a marine intake. I am turning a 4L80E and 9.5" 3.73 14-bolt. Same dyno the Titan was dyno'd on with nitrous above.



My 4x4 2014 Titan with only a CAI, rear catalyst delete, and catback exhaust put down 332/383 on 93 octane with the WOT timing 2* retard and stock WOT air/fuel ratios. Do I believe that a truck with leaner air/fuel ratio, alot more timing, and no 4x4 transferr cases can make 50 ft/lbs more, ABSOLUTELY!

 

Hold up. You saying you made 365 wtq part throttle, not even wide open yet? That i cant believe

Mine is 2010 with vvt and although rated peak torque is somewhere around 4300 mine was not peaking there it actually looked to be rising where run started. Either way despite the rectangular ports so called "huge" ports, it makes plenty of low end. So much i cant leave truck in 2wd mode to drive or else i just spin tire.

 

With a ~4:1 first gear and 6.2L sounds familiar. I cannot even go to 1/2 pedal without spinning on the street in 2wd even with my tammed throttle map.

Yea part-throttle on the pedal, I have tried to explain this same thing to someone else and what you are not understanding is the the throttle plate is not restricting the engine at lower RPM at even as low as 30-40% throttle. Power enrichment is based off base fuel schedule aka load (similar to LV8) in a Titan, not TPS like a GM. So even at 30-40% throttle opening, the intake vacuum is practically zero.

 

You have 80mm throttle bore in which air enters. If bore is only open 30-40% of total 80mm, guess what that is a restriction. Hp and trq is made from given airflow and volume of fuel burnt. 365wtq of air mass has to enter that engine thru 30-40% opening. Only way that could happen is if velocity is thru the roof which can have problems in its own right, and doesnt seem possible.

I could believe wot but its hard to buy that airflow is coming thru a 30-40% opening

 

Airflow increases as rpm rises. Since I do not have MAP numbers from the Titan I will use the 5.7 Express vans numbers that I have datalogged. At 2,400 rpm on the highway as little as 30% throttle will put the MAP reading to 99 kpa. I am sure you can do s9me datalogging and find similar results with your 6.2.

 

Is that a load bearing dyno? Thats the only other way i could potentially believe it. My motor doesnt come close to 90's kpa at part throttle. That is insane amount of load. Only motor that does is my turbo car.

 

The variable cam timing and variable intake lengths that are found in modern OHC engines are there for a reason: lack of low end torque. They're band-aids for an inherent design flaw. Even a well thought out OHV engine would struggle to make that torque at that RPM with several points more compression. For the last time, a 340" engine isn't going to make that kind of torque at that low RPM without boost. And while an OHV MIGHT come close, an OHC with every modern trick thrown at it just won't, period. Nobody else in your community has even come close to your numbers NA. The only ones that do are supercharged.

 

Hate to tell you this because it will just annoy you but the near stock direct injected Vks around here make about wheel 385 tq with headers and a tune.

Direct injection is amazing for tq, sure the DOCH engines generally make the tq a little higher on the scale but they have no issued keeping up with pushrods.

His numbers are just about perfect for the 75 shot he is using.

 

Think you need to try another dyno. Numbers seem way high for the combo.

No doubt modern motors are doing great things. Ford 5.0 coyote is a great example of improved tech. All those years the 4.6 ohc motors sucked without a blower, even build strokers werent making numbers. Now you have mod motors dominating engine master challenges, where power matters from 2500-7000 rpm.

Just think some claims are taken with grain of salt that is all

 

He claims 383 wtq peak stock with catback. Off the bottle mind you. He claims 360's at 2900 rpm part throttle. I dont buy that part. 383 trq is hard to swallow but alot more believable being a peak number under wot

 

Please DO TELL WHO IS TUNING the DI VK56VD. Last I heard Uprev was working on unlocking the ECU.

Numbers seem off for headers on the higher compression, DI VK56VD as the DE with headers makes over 400 RWTQ.

 

I have no problem with that. That's a significant difference in torque, a higher RPM peak, AND more compression.

It's not the direct injection that improves the torque, it's the compression. Compression which the OP lacks, so your point is invalid.

Low RPM torque is overwhelmingly a function of engine displacement. While the peak numbers can be improved, it needs additional RPM and cylinder pressure to do so. This is true of ALL engines, which means no in-depth knowledge is necessary of the VK.