FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Very true, but Im pretty sure that is beyond his comprehension on what boost #'s actually mean. Esp. after always trying to say a 305 on 4psi will whip up on anything out there.

Six_Shooter

iTrader: (2)

Yes, I posted that, so those are my words... What's your point?

If you could even begin to comprehend what you read, you would understand that my domestics, while being newer have problems more frequently, than my imports do. I did not say they don't occasionally have problems.

You consider 3400 lbs to be light? Really? I mean... really? How does 3400lbs for a vehicle even begin to be considered "light." My Datsun, factory was less than 2500 lbs, and I consider that a tad heavy to be a real contender in straight up acceleration contests.

Underpowered, since 305 inches (5.0L) making 155 HP is not considered to be powerful, by any stretch of the imagination, the 2.8L (173 inches) made by GM as well, made 120 HP, so almost twice the displacement to make 35 more HP? Then look at the 3.1, 130HP, 3.4, which was offered in the 4th gen, at 160 HP, or you can look at the FWD 3.4, that made around 200 HP. The 350 TPI peaked at 245 HP in 1990/91, that's 5.7L of displacement to make less than 300 HP, way less than 300 HP. That's almost the epitome of "underpowered."

I have thrown boost at 4 cylinders and 6 cylinders and they last quite a while, actually. Currently my L28 is 30 years old, and as far as I know, has never been opened up, I abuse it with boost every time I drive it, usually hitting 12+ PSIG of boost. With the power to weight ratio, it means I beat up on a lot of my friend's larger and more powerful "muscle cars."

Why does everyone put so much stock in the way something sounds? The only thing I care about the sound coming from in my stereo, anything else can sound how ever it wants to. I've seen and raced many cars that sound mean, or fast, only to have them run very slowly. The exhaust note really means nothing in the end, when you're talking about winning races.

I'm here, because I use and contribute to the DIY PROM and V6 forums, with occasional posts in other forums, that people seem to appreciate.

For the second time in the same thread...

This is key when talking about gauge boost. We only measure boost because it can start to give us an indication of how hard we are trying to push something and is easier in many cases to measure than flow.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

The other thing he's not really taking into account is that 4 psi on a little TD04 is VERY different than 4 psi on say a T76 turbo. Turbos also have a boost range where they are most efficient, IE one may run strong around 14-15 psi where another may make max efficiency at 25 psi. So many factors involved and I can almost guarantee he has no clue. Same concept with superchargers. Some displace much less than others. But a stock 305 TPI with 4 psi on an off the shelf supercharger would probably make 250 RWHP in all honesty. Hardly enough to beat a TTA.

birdman8992

you completely wrong my frind has a k20 motor in a 93 civic hatch and runs high 15's there is no way your running 13's with a k20 al motor i would love to see a pink slip

project89

iTrader: (1)

lmao most turbo hondas at my local track back in nj would run low 15's high 14s

not saying there all slow there was a 4 door civic that looked completly stock that would bust off 12.2's on real street tires. guys would never put slicks on it cause he didnt want to put a cage in the car. iirc he would trap in the 130's with low 12's

kmcn47

[quote=FSTFBDY;5049363]Show me a v8 with only 4psi. (again YOUR ERA CARS your talking about 90's)

were talking 82-92, i hope your speaking of similar era imports, i dont wanna hear about a 96 supra again, or we'll start talking about newer and faster muscle cars too

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Oh really...you wanna put money on that? Because theres a kid on the honda forums with a K20A....the 200 hp one. Has intake, header, exhaust, and tune and goes 13.3's in a little 1990's style hatchback. Just because your freind can't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. A 1990 hatchback weighs 2100 lbs. Doesn't take much to run 13's in that thing.

kmcn47

and for the record, i never claimed my car was fast by any standard, i know its not a racecar, but keep in mind its a 26 year old stock engine, that has more emissions equipment on it than everyone elses hear, how many of these imports you are talking about are so much faster than my car are the same age, stock, and pass inspection in all 50 states?

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

[QUOTE=kmcn47;5049609]Again just go research the 4g63T ( Stick with 90 / 91 / 92 If you must. So a 1g DSM then.
or how about a 2nd Gen FC Turbo RX7 1.3L
Or the Z32 (1990 300zx Twin Turbo)

Well keep the supra outa it for now. Unless you wanta play the '96 supra vs the world game also. Cuz there wasnt much back then in the same ballpark either. (with or with out mods. ESP . just doing BOLT or or FREE mods.)

stealthroc89

Factory turbo cars were designed to live life under boost and most were way overbuilt, the last Supra's are a prime example of this. The whole arguement is over modding certain cars, any car can be fast if you have the money. Making a fast L98 while being legal is a pretty big task, runners, ported base, heads, cam, valvetrain, converter, injectors, headers, blah blah blah, all that stuff gets expensive FAST! The California guys (others too) have made huge strides in making a powerful TPI setup. I'm sure they knew the mountain they would have to face when they chose the TPI platform to mod. It's the challenge that drove them to do it, same goes for the I4 guys. Making a carbed V8 fast isn't much of a challenge, but making a 2 liter car go around a track as fast as a Lamborghini Murcialago is a phenominal feat of engineering!! http://www.metacafe.com/watch/655720...ni_murcielago/

Amazing right?! Wouldn't believe that's the same engine the DSM's have, minus the technology. Just goes to show how fast these little engines can be. Show me a stock V8 car that can do that!

I know it won't prove anything, because the SBC is king of all to some and that is fine, but the rest of us know what's out here, we've done the research, put blood, sweat and money into one. Just because you haven't ran into a fast import doesn't mean they don't exist and even if you did get whipped by one I don't think you would admit to it. I myself haven't ran across any recently, but when my car was stock, I got owned by an EVO7, right after that I took down a 99 Mustang GT, from a 60mph roll and at a stoplight. Our cars can hold their own, but the crowd is catching up.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Well said.. Good video too. The Evos are crazy cars. They just get a bad stigma from the old timer V8 guys who dont understand technology.

kmcn47

[quote=FSTFBDY;5049636]i did, found some interesting things, here are the cars that you oculd get with that engine and there baseline hp
1984 mitsubishi cordia 135 hp turbo
1984 Mitsubishi galant 160 hp turbo
1984 Mitsubishi lancer 163 hp turbo
1984 Mitsubishi tredia 114hp turbo
1984 Mitsubishi delicia......and its a van 0_o who would race a van? also i couldn't find an hp number for that one

well these are all the same year as my car, and have the engine you told me too research and you know i just cant see how any of these midsized sedans that are fwd would beat my 84 Z28 in a race being they have alot less hp and weigh close to the same, i mean there all turbo'd so they should be fast right? that is the point you were trying to make

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Ahh ok so now its a YEAR FOR YEAR rule change mid way thru the argument..and stock for stock? Plus you wanta pull sedans vs SPORTS cars into the equation now too. Please keep it real. (4g63T sports cars. Eclipse , talon , galant vr4 , 3000gt , etc)

..It all started out with the guy saying I'll toss a supercharger with 4psi on a 305 bla bla bla crap..

stealthroc89

[quote=FSTFBDY;5049636]Ahhh, yes, forgot about the tiny rotary engines, 1.3 liters (80cid) of terror!! Someone that says small engines weren't meant to rev has never has a ride in an RX7, not a conventional engine though! While not as great as the 13B-REW (Twin Turbo), the 13B-MSP (Renesis) almost pulled off the same power levels as the REW, with no boost!

Back on topic, I hate how "ricers" act when a real sports car goes driving by, they rev their engines and other crap to get it's attention, kind of reminds me of a tied up dog watching another dog walk by and just as annoying.

stealthroc89

You have to remember, all the fast imports were left in Japan back then

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

yep, I miss my 87 rx7 some days. Small STREET PORT and shifting grears at 7500 rpm.

but ya back on topic "RICERS" every town has them and NOT just IMPORTS. someone here in town has a 2000 camaro done up FAST N FURIOUS style. neon colors. tons of grafix , etc..

stealthroc89

This is why we need a puking smilie!!

shortyskater

When I worked at Advance Auto we had a guy, late 20's, who worked with us. He went from a "tricked" out celica (rims, 85 foot wing, interior all jazzed up ect.) to a toyota matrix (rims, STI hood scoop , done up interior, under the hood all color coordinated to match his "color scheme", ect.). And he takes it to car shows and wins!!

I just dont understand where people come up with this crap. Its one thing if its a strictly car show car but another to drive it around like its hot ****.

And to comment on KMCN and your year for year match up, Over half those cars weren't built strictly for speed. Ya they all have the same engine, but thats like comparing a 350 in a camaro to the same in a pickup, they're going to be put together and run slightly different. Once again, your post is irrelevant.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

a factory turbo car has much less compression than a n/a car. We know that. Usually a 4 cyl will come with more boost/psi from the factory than a v6 turbo car. That doesn't mean it will beat it. More than likely the v6 turbo will always be faster. A 4 cyl NEEDS that amount of boost. Now take the turbo off of the turbo block and compare the block with the regular N?A one. It puts out much much less power. Now back to boost. Now of course you can raise the boost on any car provided you lower the timing. It is a trade off until you spend money and buy a fuel computer (what we called it in the old days) or figure out how to get your injectors to spray for a longer period of time( usually requires bigger inj) OK, so now you can run higher timing and still get higher boost. You can take it a step further and go intercooled which will cool down the intake charge also allowing higher levels of boost and timing to be used by the motor. Its all about not detonating basically. Then i could go on and on, So you say 18 lbs is not a lot of boost? What did the stock DSMs put out in psi factory? Like 11 lbs? Well guess what ,that engine is designed to handle maybe 12 safely before you start seeing white smoke out of the tailpipe and or a cracked block. Those blocks are known for it. Trust me I know turbo cars. So, yes raising the boost up to 12 lbs is safe without spending any cash. Imagine how risky running 18lbs of boost is. You better have fuel supporting mods and then hope you don't blow the motor anyway. Also for the record a supercharged 305 Lb9 5 speed car with 4psi boost will destroy a TTA . A stock one that is. We beat one by about 4 car lenghts. Go ahead and call me a liar again. Just ask any supercharged guy on this website if his sc'ed thirdgen can beat a TTA.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

A DSM motor is junk. It is a Dodge Neon. LOL same car. Its a chix car.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Hey how many imports do you see at the drag strip getting a wheelie? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MI6Vn...eature=related

shortyskater

Actually, I think it was 2 years ago, the 4G63 was in the top 10 best import motors to build.

shortyskater

Now you tube supra wheelies

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

You know, I don't know whether to call you a 10 year old with absolutely no car knowledge, or a hardcore nut swinging old fart....but you are def one of the two.

My brothers old lancer evo was running 26 PSI on the stock engine with methanol injection. Nothing done to it. And it's the same engine that comes in the eclipses and talons. He drove it everyday rain/snow/shine and never had one problem with it. It got plenty of abuse too. Made 340 WHP on a mustang dyno, so if you want to get technical, thats around 375 on a dynojet. He had around $2500 into that car. Try making 375 WHP on a 350 TPI for $2500. I wish you the best of luck.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

haha lets start posting RACE CARS..ok ohh wait a 4g63
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHv_jKJVQ-Q

Ohh and DOING WHEELIES if thats what you think is COOL.

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Funny thing is, my brothers old SRT4 would have destroyed your 350 with just bolt ons. Now THAT is funny.

freaky

girl car or not my dodge neon ( srt4 ) with a 50 trim an all supporting mods walked many c5 vettes . bahahahaha
i only hope to make my turd gen faster than it was .

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Hers a more REAL WORLD video for you man.
Just a POS 4banger 4g63 DSM a turbo ls1 and a tt 300z car
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jnUe4XC6pQ

freaky

heres a street legal "girls car" neon :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXkiItKEgSs&feature=fvsr

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

Lets keep it 3rdgen related also
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmxe_RpfM3w

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

I'll add to it. Heres an 11 second N/A civic. STOCK K20 MOTOR WITH BOLTS ONS. Street car. 28 mpg. Enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4vzcL2qY9_4

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Yeah and just a few years before that they were recalled for warped head after 30k miles. Thats sad.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

man how many GM LS based motors have piston slap from the factory? mmmm, Enough to make the news, etc....

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Oh yeah we could go on and on,i can show you some vids of Thirdgens and American iron destroying Dsm's and other Japanese cars too.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Come on man, everyone knows Chevy is like a rock. Why do you think they have making the 350 or 305 sbc for like 35 years? Uh,.... maybe cause it is a good,strong design? Tell you what ,if you like your Dodge neon or Eagle so much then why dont you sell your Thirdgen? and go join their forums?

whitedevilTA

iTrader: (8)

Thats not the point. Show us a 350 TPI 3rd gen with bolt ons going 11's. I'd like to see that. Your argument was that imports will never be as fast as a V8 dollar for dollar, so I want to see a bolt on 11 second TPI.

shortyskater

Just like anything else there will always be a recall for something. Not every motor was recalled. Not all production lines are perfect. I was just stating a fact that the motors arent "junk". Ok some had recalls but majority didn't.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Show me an 11 second N/A 4cyl or v6 car running 11's with bolt-ons. They can't do it without boost or nitrous. My argument was go ahead and add boost to a v8 and then see who's faster.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHPTmVx4tSs supposedely fast eagle tsi vs corvette.

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

I never said it wasnt a good strong engine. show me where I did. You point out warped head issues and I point out GM has flaws too.

I do like my talon, and Im on talon forums. I also like my other toys.. 92 vert.camaro which btw is a 383 lt1 and SUPERCHARGED and will destroy my talon. I m also on the vette forums and mustang cobra forums. Oh and a few boat forums. I have alot of toys. Dont even get me talking about the sea doo jet ski that makes over 300 HP and is supercharged also..

YOUR ARGUMENT was putting a supercharger on a 305 with 4psi. and ITS NOT GONNA WHIP on ANYTHING with 4PSI and being a 305. ENOUGH SAID.

I what a boosted V8 will do I know what a boosted i4 will do.

now if you said let me BUILD a EQUAL BOOSTED SBC I wouldnt be cutting your head off. but YOU INSIST a boosted 305 is gonna eat ALL imports out there.

My last one for the night and Im done. STREET CAR ohhh no its way over boosted
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=zlFFxGk1Bfg

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

haha I knew you would find dougs video. You pick a heads/cam /nitrous vette vs a stock is 13 second dsm.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

that video is Bs, what does the stock k20 put out? 155hp So you tell me he gained 75 hp from headers? hahahah, on a Honda dollar for dollar you GAIN MUCH MUCH LESS PER DOLLAR from bolt ons. Believe that!! You might gain 4hp on a Civic from adding exhaust.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

So your video of that Civic had an engine swap huh. Ok lets post a video of Thirdgen with Ls1 swap with bolt ons vs Civic with k20 swap and bolt ons. OK how about this, add headers to a thirdgen motor , now add a header to a Civic motor. Who do you think will get their moneys worth? The smaller engine or the bigger breathing v8?

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Stock Tsi DSMs dont run 13's. Especially early 90's ones. Hahaha nice try.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Stock Dsm's like that one in the video run in the 15's.

shortyskater

I'm in the same boat. I enjoy the aspects of my talon as well. And I enjoy my Iroc too. Each brings something different to the table. Sorry I'm not so one sided with Chevy being the all time greatest company to ever make a car/motor. If you broaden your horizons and accept that there are other cars/motors in the world equally and sometimes better than chevy, you might learn something.

Then again, after reading everything you've posted, you probably won't...

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

Ok, then an 02 Mustang gt vs my brothers Sc'ed 305. They both raced em' and the Stang lost by about15 cars. Or even the C5 that got beat pretty bad or the TTA Come on man, you gonna keep calling me a liar? So, not whipping up on anyone with 4lbs of boost.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

My argument with you is that your Talon is not built anywhere near as strong as your Chevy.

ninetyone

iTrader: (2)

You will figure it out as you get older. For performance purposes I would buy American muscle. Around town and for mileage I would buy a Civic.LOL

FSTFBDY

iTrader: (33)

haha again APLES to oranges.

Put your brothers SCed camaro up against '03 Cobra (supercharger vs supercharger) Ohh its only 281 cubes. So your brother has more cubes and a SC to do it. If you can pick on a 02 GT Im sure you can play ball with the 03 cobra too right?