I ran my buddies bolton/tune LS2 C6 Vette three times today. Once for a stand still and the other two times from 15mph rolls. All three runs when pretty much the same. First run slow roll I put a little over a car on him out of 1st gear and maybe another half car in the bottom of 2nd gear. When I got into the mid of 2nd I stopped pulling away and he started inching back(I bounced off 6200 rev limiter going into 3rd). When I was in 3rd gear he starting pulling me in and past me around the top of my 3rd gear, around 115mph.
Second run was from a light, he spun his run flats and I spun my DRs, still same result as the first race.
Third and last race we went from 15mph roll, we both hooked and didn't hit the rev limiter so it was a clean run. Same thing he caught me around 110-115mph.
I'm pretty happy with the results because he has been beating the stock LS3 vette he has raced, he also put down 383rwhp 383rwtq on a dynamite dyno.
my mods in sig.

 

Very nice, would like to see that car in person...

 

I have to get out to E town. I haven't been there since 2006, it's just a PITA to get to from Long Island.

 

Got some family that lives over in Massapequa Park, I honestly enjoy the ride over to Long Island when I am able to. Another member from Long Island (link below) is starting his turbo build which I want to check out in person as well, so I think we should all get together one night and share some racing stories. Speaking of races I have a race with a 2010 Nissan GTR coming up, just need to wrap up a few details and the GTA is good to go...

https://www.thirdgen.org/forums/powe...-go-again.html

 

What rpm are you shifting?

 

6000-6150

 

Street Lethal, I think I've seen you post on nythirdgen. We have a meet coming up July 7th on Deer Park Ave, you should take a ride out.

 

Where is it being hosted? Would definitely like to come to one, as I think Glenn has literally given up on asking me lol...

 

http://s9.zetaboards.com/nythirdgen/...7343303/1/#new

http://s9.zetaboards.com/nythirdgen/...7343302/1/#new

 

What is the rpm range for that cam? I would think you could shift closer to 6300 and run a little quicker. You may be shifting too soon. But its a test & tune deal to get the sweet spot.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp-Cams/249/...rentProductId=

Looks like 2000-6000.

 

It made peak power on the dyno with my SuperRam setup at 5600. My converter flashes to about 4400.

 

I though with those heads/cam, peak would have been higher. But i'm no expert.

Do you have any time slips from the track?

 

I don't have a track near me, so no times. The Vette I ran has gone 12.40's@117 before his last tune. That was on run flats on a 90* day, I'm hoping for low 12's-high 11s.

 

Nice kill and nice car.Is the vette going to do any future mods? he has only begun to tap into the potential of that ls2.

Your setup is damn stout!I loved my 280xfi hsr the way it sounded just scared ppl away lol.

 

yeah, I'm sure he has more mods planned. As of now it just has ZO6 headers and catback, ram air intake setup, higher lift rockers, and a dyno tune. He doesn't want to do a cam/heads swap yet.

 

A cam alone will make it a whole new car.my lq4 is cam only making the same power as my afr headed 383hsr.

lol once he does cam and heads..the rematch race isnt going to be very pretty for you though :S..but there is always nitrous.

 

Which AFR heads and cam are you running in the 383, and what software did you tune with?

 

back then i was using tunerpro,had the car tuned by pcmforless,then started fine tuning myself when i used the ostrich2 emulator.My 383 was a 280xfi cam and afr 195 elim heads.

 

Reasons like this i went to the LS engine. Sad when you have a stroked and cammed motor getting pulled by a stock motor with rune and bolt ons. Glad you are happy, i would have been not so much, LOL. I used to lie and say "it is a truck motor, stock with a cam and carbed intake." They never asked to pop the hood and always assumed a old TBI 5.7. I didnt lie, just didnt fill in the details.

 

yeah , I'm pretty happy with running 11's with a gen1 small block. Seems like you wasted a lot of money with your LS conversion . Saw the pics of your car on your profile, thing is hurting but as long as your happy with it..LOL.. and on your link you said you paid $500 for your RS...you over paid... Also saw you "estimated 1/8 mile time of 8.0" on the conversion calculators that's a 12.48 1/4 mile...kinda SAD for your all your hype, cammed LS
http://www.eldemoniorojo.com/calculator.htm
your also "estimated 500 HP" sounds like you over estimated that HP after seeing your "ET estimates" http://www.fquick.com/garages/Chevro..._RS/1989/4903/

 

lol someone is stirring the pot now.

I respect your car Formula350,you have a nasty setup that is clearly working.I got nothing against anyone for building any gen sbc.The main flaws from my 383hsr setup and why i finally decided to try ls based motor was the fact that buidling a bigger cubed sbc and using tpi I had no reliable sources to get it 100%.The base tune was the best I could get and then try to tweak it myself to run better in the canadian weather being speed density.Tuners around here arent very familar with tpi for me to trust spending huge dyno time on.

When my 383 started to give other issues I figured time to try something new,I wanted around the same power but to be more efficient at it and not be soo damn picky about the weather.Swapping to an ls didnt cost me much since i did the labor myself and converted to 6spd at the sametime.

I admit my gen1 sounded way more aggressive than my lq4 now.But its more tame to drive everyday on the street.How much did you roughly spend on your motor build Formula?When i did my 383 i was approaching under 5 grand with labor and it has less parts and cheaper quality parts compared to yours.

I think if i invest about 3-4grand into my lq4 would be a very nice street car.get my comp ratio to about 10.5:1,longtube headers,ported ls6 heads, should get me over 410rwhp

 

your correct, I spent some money going all forged. As for the tune , it took me a lot of help from ppl on this site and others as well as me learning to get it running as it should. LS motors are awesome, I love them. I just got a little nasty after this guy who runs almost a second slower then me was saying how "Sad" my setup runs and how he wouldn't be happy going my times "LOL". Funny thing is his cars slower..Not looking to pick a fight with the LS guys, like I said they are great motors.

 

Guys who swap to LS engines aren't real 3rd gen guys anyway, so pick away lol. Seriously though, any engine can be made fast, any engine, and you did a fantastic job w/yours!

 

Are you sure of that?

Seems like you have a well thought out and impressive build but Zone probably spent 1/3 of what you did on his build.

 

great, here comes another sbc vs lsx flame war......

 

Yes.

 

Let everybody flame away, it's healthy to get it all out of their systems...

 

Fair enough. LOL Personally, i never understood why people debate it at all.

Both can be modded cheap.
Both can be made fast.
They can share similar displacements.
Both are very serviceable.
Both have a huge aftermarket.
Both can be made carbed or FI.
They`re pretty much the same size dimensionaly.

The only real advantage in my opinion that the LS motors really have are the cylinder heads, mind you, you can get 18 degree heads for a sbc, but it's a bit more of a pain. Everything else is so similar.

That being said, i love both motors. But i have to admit that there is a bit of an 'elitist' attitude with LS owners, which this very thread proves once again.
An 11 second sbc street car is nothing to sneeze at.
And any '9 second' LS owner that claims his car is streetable and comfortable is full of it. Every 9 sec car i've seen at the track are not cars i'd like to drive on the streets, LS or otherwise.

My two cents.

 

Forgot about this thread. Dont come in here too often, too many kids wondering if they can beat other slow cars with their stock 305 and 350 cars.

The conversion was cheap, mounts were 40$, headers were 800$ because i wanted nice pieces that were stainless and would allow the truck motor to breathe. It is a stock 700$ truck engine with a 250$ used cam, springs and pushrods, nothing special. Hurts allot of feelings, and as for streets, that car is feared by many. But, she was wrecked last month, taking the 6.0 out and dropping it in the 86 TA with the TH400 to see how fast it can go with a auto. Best with the T56 has been a 11.18 1 pass, but they kicked me due to no safety equipment. How much money does it take to do that with a SBC? Too much. Been there and done it, and on a budget or not, i gave up on the GEN I. Built many and they do not deliver like the cheap truck engines. I spin 7200 all day, no ARP bolts, just a cam. The swap with the intake and ignition was maybe 700$ for the carb setup, everything else was upgrades that are not a necessity unless power is the goal. So, RIP 89 RS, the 6 speed is going to be saved for a 4.8 swap in another 5 speed third gen, going to try autocross and spin the stock 4.8 to 7800 with cam only, should sound pretty nasty. Your heads cost more than my whole engine, i just though about that....sorry.

 

I do agree, some do act pretty weird, i am just optimist, the GEN III and IV are better, period. If you dont admit it, then you are just hanging on to the past. They go faster cheaper, just comes with the territory of not being designed in 1955. The GEN I has 1 main upside, the 5 bolt per cylinder can hold more boost than a GEN III, but there are 6 bolt options that do fine.

More and more the LS swap is taking over, there is reason for it. Just like the ford guys make excuses why the SBC was swapped into everything in the world, the SBC guys are now doing the same towards the LS platform.

Have a friend with a solid roller 350 knocked .060 over, 362 ci, with heads and the lot in a automatic Nova, i have a stock 364 cubes with hydraulic cam. Pretty fair except he has a auto so he doesnt have to shift with a clutch. End of result, i still drag that pretty little nova all day and night. Upside, we can rematch with the Trans Am with the 6.0 with a auto, see how bad it really gets, LOL.

 

Sucks your wrecked your car....... sorry. Might want to pick up a few of those engines if your planning on spinning it to 7800..lol...I say def do it, if it doesn't work out you can always sell them as boat anchors..good luck with that!

 

Truth be told though, it doesn't even matter anymore nowadays. What is so great about an LSX engine when I can build a ten second V6 LC2 that gets 30+ miles per gallon? Sure, an LSX can get a turbo too, but it doesn't even matter though, because it takes x amount of horsepower to run a number, and with a turbo it is easy. You want to see something? My buddy ran 10.47 and trapped 125 with these factory LC2 heads running a T71 turbo (first pic). Once I ported them (second pic), he had to detune the engine to keep it above 10.0 running the same boost pressure. Haven't had my 305 at the track just yet, but that same car cannot pull me on the highway. Any engine can be made fast for cheap, any engine, as that is why it is good for them to vent it all out, because in the end it doesn't even matter.

 

I assume you do not have a vast kniwledge of engines, a 4.8 ha a much shorter stroke than the 5.3,5.7,6.0,6.2. Those engines spin 7200 with no problem, I have two that do it right now, stock bottom end no ARP. How your SBC turn?

Anyway, the 4.8 at 7800(which has been done with no problem by others), has a piston speed that catches that of the larger engines with their 3.622 stroke crank. So there is not any more stress on the 4.8 at that RPM than on a 5.3-6.2 at 7200. Do not doubt it because your lack of research. Yes, they can do many things.

Actually, one tech member, gutted a Fox coupe, slapped in a stock 6.0, a set of 6.0 heads he milled .040, a cam, TH350, all motor pump gas 9.9 seconds. Never seen a stock 350 with a cam run anywhere near that. In anything.

 

C'mon man. Are you seriously telling me that a 300hp stock engine, with a little more compression and cam pushed a fox to a 9.9 timeslip?

Sorry, have to call BS.
Either that, or it's the biggest cam known to man. Like I previously stated, not a car I'd like to drive. Being gutted doesn't help.

PS. doesn't an engine's valve train and bottom end have more to do with it's survival at high rpm's than it's stroke? The stroke only really helps dictate it's rpm band.

 

Here's some of those engines after 7800
http://www.blueoceantackle.com/ancho...e_industry.htm

 

 

You have to realize, the fox was 2400 pounds. Pretty light. You can call it what you like, it was done. My car went 11.18 in the 1/4 mile on 1 pass with the 317 heads, i got kicked for lack of safety equipment, so i did not get to try to best that pass. That was at 3450 pounds with a manual trans. Now deduct neatly 1000 pounds, add an automatic trans and up compression by not only the fact my engine is a LQ4 with dished pistons and his was a LQ9 with flat tops and he used LS2 6.0 heads with smaller chambers, you dont think all that can add up to over a second gain from my 1 pass? The possibilities are endless.

Piston speed is crucial on an engine being factory holding together, there is allot to be learned by even me, much less others that never even thought about what it is. The strength of two bottom ends being identical, one with a larger stroke that the other, will have more strength to spare with the smaller stroke at the same RPM, less stress from the rotating mass.

After? No idea, the reason the 4.8 i have seen stop at 7800 was the fact that the GEN I 24X reluctor wheel loses a dependable signal from the crank signal above that. The 4.8 i will be using is a 2008 EGN IV with the 58X wheel, so we will see. Just picked up the heads i will be using last week, i will post results i guess even though it will not be in a third gen.

In the mean while, gander the little stock cammed 6.0 eating a 500 RWHP Cobra and a 600 RWHP GTO, first two runs, this was on a 150 shot sniper kit

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhCBf...ure=plpp_video

 

A cammed 6.0 sniffing a 150 shot is hardly stock. Just sayin.

And for the record, I drive a Sierra with a 4.8, and I would never dream of revving it past 6000rpm. I've babied that thing, and I'm losing oil pressure at an alarming rate.

 

Was referring to the engine, no arp bolts, stock long block with a cam, 7200 rpm.

Just because you have one bad 4.8 doesn't mean they are all junk. Here is my carbed 4.8 in my 94 gmc, no cam, headers and a carb. Will handle most members third gens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uvis...e_gdata_player

 

lsx > sbc

 

LC2 > LSX

 

I'm sure there are some very fast LS cars out there. So far I've just been beating up on the LS car I've run across(since new engine). But they were all sure to say how fast they were before I beat them. I'm not sure if they were reving to 10,000 rpms but I was able to win shifting at 6200 which was good enough to put them behind me. But like I said before I know some LS cars move out, but a lot of them just are all talk. Any car can be made fast, just being you run an ls car doesn't mean your not going to get your *** handed to you by a sbc.

 

I just waxed a newer C6 vette last sat in my beater 89 formula and I wasnt even close to 100% throttle..

 

Bingo. Callaway knew this very well, as his TPI Corvettes made their power under 6000-RPM, and they were the fastest things on the highway. Even today most cars have trouble taking them on from a roll. So much more than just high RPM, it is what happens during that RPM, aka rate of acceleration, then keeping the engine where it wants to be, with the right gearing and tire size to maximize its' performance at that RPM...

 

I love the 80's V6 turbos(TTA, GNX, Ty/Sy) only bad thing is that they are as rare as unicorns.

The LSx is easily available, easy to mod, and cost effective.

Just check out this little 5.3 putting a hurting on 9 second cars.

Specs: 4th gen Z28, stock junkyard 5.3 iron block, stock heads, medium cam, arp head studs. and a big turbo

 

Meh, that is when we enthusiasts buckle down and build our own...

 

The LS is not the end all be all for sure. I have built many a SBC, bad news was, it took too much money to beat a stock ls1 with a cam, had to stroke it just like th OP, 383 cubes just to beat a 346 ci engine... Now, went iron block and I can run 87 octane, rip tires off the ground and spin to the moon making power all the way.

Callaway made power with boost, that is different, if you are talking the Vette, ect. NA, you make more power with more RPM when the mods are supporting it. Hence a 383 that makes 500 HP at 6200 and I make 500 at 7000, I have 20 less cubes. Look at price, I put in a cam, a 383 is only a stock block, unless you used the factory rods, ARP bolts, and resized and clearenced. That is machine work and parts.

The advantages of the LS make sense. The lighter valve train is something that only the aftermarket can get you for the SB. The looking for a 4 bolt? Non existent. Look for heads? Don't need to. Get good rockers? Nope. ARP hardware is not needed. Most SB need a bump in compression, not the new engines.

As far as the old boosted 3.8? Lol, that was cool, but here are stock boosted 4.8 engines that would murder the best 3.8 out there. V8 has more torque.

 

Agreed.

Does not mean that you yourself maximized its' performance. You are a builder who complains about investing money into an engine, so I will bet that all of your SBC builds were very feable in their attempt, feable at best...

Who cares? I can run E85 and run as much compression as I like on a SBC or V6, whether static compression, or effective compression, I can spin them to the moon if I want to, but for what reason though if the valvetrain doesn't need to be spun that high lol...

Umm, no it isn't. You moved on from SBC's into the futuristic land of LSX engines, but guess what, the future holds power adders in the majority of the fastest cars being released from auto makers, yet here you are complaining and saying they are different? So what if Callaway made power with turbo's, those cars will still annihilate anything you ever build with an LSX, anything...

... lmao, Callaway ran 254-mph top speed at under 6000-RPM in a fully street legal SBC Corvette. Banks' went faster with a SBC Trans Am. Show me a high revving street legal LSX that will top any of them.

So what? The difference is made up elsewhere, and you don't even see that...

This is an expensive hobby, those who are REAL racers are going to INVEST money into their rides. Not everybody nickels and dimes their builds. Do you think those who show up in Nissan GTR's and Buggati's at the track are crying about the money they spent? The crowds go to these cars. Chicks go to these cars. If you have the money, then spend it. Simple. Its a hobby...

... only to those who do not know how to build a SBC engine.

... lmao, here we go again about price. Do you think I spent much in my weak, pathetically anemic 305? A 305 that will annihilate any LSX you got?

Umm, news flash, 4-bolts are meaningless. STEEL MAIN CAPS are what strengthen a block. I can show you an eight second Grand National running a 109 block and 2-bolt mains...

You have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Keep parroting what you hear from the other board...

LMAO! Torque lol? In your dreams my friend, in your dreams...

 

kinda seems like Zone89RS is some what upset I posted that I beat a C6 LS2 Vette. As I said many times here I like LS cars, they respond very well to mods.. Also seems some what unhappy I spent my money on good parts and did it all without reving over 6200. Guess if I used junk yard parts and lost to every LS car he would be able to sleep tonight.

 

I don't know what it is with our members. This is why nobody really stays on this website anymore, as either they argue about engines, or ECU's, nobody is ever happy. There are guys in the V6 section who are pulling their heads and working them, installing Delta camshafts, building their own turbo charger systems, and running elevens with no problem whatsoever. I applaud them for that because that is what hot rodding is all about, not just shoving in an LSX. First the 350 guys criticize the 305 guys, and now you have LSX guys criticizing the SBC guys. It never freaking ends. I don't see this on the Buick boards at all, as the Buick SFI guys are always helping out the older hot air turbo guys, never arguing. I remember awhile back I had my @ss handed to me by a '98 Corvette with an early Lingenfelter 383 LS1 engine, the guy had the build sheet and everything. Damn thing ran low elevens just like that, and pulled like a raped ape on the highway. Once I finally got the turbo on, he couldn't catch me anymore, and he applauded the effort in which I appreciated because its not easy to squeeze power out of a 305 engine. I just don't get some of the members on this website...